Tywin et al.

NFL 2017: Jared vs. Case Is Why Fisher Will Never Coach Again

411 posts in this topic

35 minutes ago, l2 0 5 5 said:

How can you say he wasn't trying to hurt Brown when he's clearly looking right at him and lowers his head right into Brown's helmet? I know you're vouching that he's a good dude (inside information?) but considering everything that transpired prior to I don't think you can give him the benefit of the doubt there. I'd consider that hit malicious when you can see the DB eyeing up Brown, and making full-on contact with head, opposed to JuJu putting his shoulder into Burfict's chest region. Yeah, he got a little neck/head area but I don't think that was his target. There's a difference between an illegal hit and a dirty one, imo.

 

You say celebrating like I'm overjoyed that he got hurt. I simply can't find it in me to feel bad for a guy getting laid out that has been on the other side of it so many times. Did I feel a level of serves him right when I saw him get put on his ass? Yes, I did. FFS I guess that makes me Voldemort. But that makes you a bad person, anymore. If you're not completely outraged by it you're over 60 years old and a Trump supporter. 

I know Steelers players make there fair share of dirty plays. I've made my hatred of Mike Mitchell apparent on here numerous times. The guy is scum. 

It's a little funny to see you jumping on Iloka like this, when Shazier himself has his own dubious history of headhunting. Much of this post could apply to Shazier, who I believe has a worse history than Iloka and, in fact, did seem to be leading with his helmet when he got injured.

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Never mind. Not worth it. 

Edited by Nictarion

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26 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

It's a little funny to see you jumping on Iloka like this, when Shazier himself has his own dubious history of headhunting. Much of this post could apply to Shazier, who I believe has a worse history than Iloka and, in fact, did seem to be leading with his helmet when he got injured.

Yeah, he does, not denying that. I'm also talking about the Iloka hit in a vacuum, so while I can agree that Shazier has his series of bad hits, I don't see how it applies to the Iloka hit I was talking about. 

 

6 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

Kind of like how I wouldn’t shed a shingle tear if your rapist QB got taken out. You know...for all the shit he’s done. 

Nic, you are the worst... I'm kidding. Don't blame you one bit. I'd expect many and many of people to share this thought.  The guy is extremely unlikable, and disgusting. I agree. 

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4 hours ago, l2 0 5 5 said:

How can you say he wasn't trying to hurt Brown when he's clearly looking right at him and lowers his head right into Brown's helmet? I know you're vouching that he's a good dude (inside information?) but considering everything that transpired prior to I don't think you can give him the benefit of the doubt there. I'd consider that hit malicious when you can see the DB eyeing up Brown, and making full-on contact with head, opposed to JuJu putting his shoulder into Burfict's chest region. Yeah, he got a little neck/head area but I don't think that was his target. There's a difference between an illegal hit and a dirty one, imo.

Iloka doesn't head hunt. He makes bad plays because he looks to dislodge the ball but he doesn't hit to injure. He doesn't talk shit, is great in the community and always says the right things. He has never had a history of head hunting in his career and you even have Mike Mitchell, scum that he is, vouching for him. Iloka was trying to make a football play and he hit the guy in the head. He deserved to get suspended but I don't think it was meant to be dirty.

The issue with Smith-Schuster's hit was that he put the helmet into Burfict's face then stood over him and taunted him. If he walked away, fair enough, it was a crack back block that turned bad. That happens. But he got into his face and taunted him while he was down injured, definitely concussed and given the caution, possibly worse. That's why it's really bad. Burfict was suspended 3 games for doing something similar, though without the taunting and without the helmet to helmet hit. JJSS deserved what he got. It wasn't a good play and it was a hit that has a strong history of ending seasons.

Edited by Mexal

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Pretty attractive game tomorrow night, and my date cancelled on me so I'm gonna stock up on supplies of wine and weed. It's about fucking time a big game came out of the most anonymous division in sports history. I was just thinking that one of the reasons that I like the NFL so much despite its horrid nature is because a game like this, between a team I kinda hate and a team I pretty much hate, is something I'm looking forward to quite a bit.

There's plenty of drama, good teams, storylines abound. I like that the NFL feels so small, it's why I hate the idea of any expansion of the league or schedule. There's so much on the line in every game, and the league and it's schedule is small enough to be able to have a legitimate interest in nearly every team.

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George Iloka’s suspension reduced to just a fine (35k). 

JJSS’ stands...

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3 hours ago, Nictarion said:

George Iloka’s suspension reduced to just a fine (35k). 

JJSS’ stands...

I believe that JJSS' hit was clearly worth a penalty, and maybe fine worthy, but definitely not suspension worthy.  Until he taunted about it and after that he deserved what he got

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18 hours ago, Mexal said:

Iloka doesn't head hunt. He makes bad plays because he looks to dislodge the ball but he doesn't hit to injure. He doesn't talk shit, is great in the community and always says the right things. He has never had a history of head hunting in his career and you even have Mike Mitchell, scum that he is, vouching for him. Iloka was trying to make a football play and he hit the guy in the head. He deserved to get suspended but I don't think it was meant to be dirty.

The issue with Smith-Schuster's hit was that he put the helmet into Burfict's face then stood over him and taunted him. If he walked away, fair enough, it was a crack back block that turned bad. That happens. But he got into his face and taunted him while he was down injured, definitely concussed and given the caution, possibly worse. That's why it's really bad. Burfict was suspended 3 games for doing something similar, though without the taunting and without the helmet to helmet hit. JJSS deserved what he got. It wasn't a good play and it was a hit that has a strong history of ending seasons.

Agree on the taunting. Not necessary and probably what got him suspended. Surprised that Iloka got his reversed. I saw the post game interview with juju and you can hear Brown yelling "karma" in the background. Add that with juju taunting after the Burfict hit and that's probably why his stood. Steelers celebrated the hits when Iloka walked away after hitting ab. That's probably the difference here.

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20 minutes ago, l2 0 5 5 said:

Agree on the taunting. Not necessary and probably what got him suspended. Surprised that Iloka got his reversed. I saw the post game interview with juju and you can hear Brown yelling "karma" in the background. Add that with juju taunting after the Burfict hit and that's probably why his stood. Steelers celebrated the hits when Iloka walked away after hitting ab. That's probably the difference here.

Yea, I think that's a big part of it. The other thing is Burfict was suspended for a similar thing that JJSS did (for longer but he has a history). And on a weekly basis, we see hits like Iloka's get a fine but no suspension. Given Iloka's reaction to it and lack of negative history, they probably thought fining him was in line with past punishments.

Edited by Mexal

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How do you know it's almost Christmas time?

The Brownies are cleaning house, that's how! Sashi is out as GM (or whatever the fuck his title was)

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2 hours ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

How do you know it's almost Christmas time?

The Brownies are cleaning house, that's how! Sashi is out as GM (or whatever the fuck his title was)

I honestly thought they were committed to being patient.

Have to wonder if Kizer over Watson is what sealed the deal.

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So Browns are going to hire a GM who didn't hire this coach and will want to replace him next year (assuming the team sucks out loud again)? Or is Hue Jackson getting more authority out of this?

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2 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

So Browns are going to hire a GM who didn't hire this coach and will want to replace him next year (assuming the team sucks out loud again)? Or is Hue Jackson getting more authority out of this?

I assume the Browns are going to fire Jackson, and just prefer to a little later (presumably at the end of the season).  You can argue Jackson got dealt a rough hand, but he is pretty clearly part of the problem. 

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1 minute ago, Maithanet said:

I assume the Browns are going to fire Jackson, and just prefer to a little later (presumably at the end of the season).  You can argue Jackson got dealt a rough hand, but he is pretty clearly part of the problem. 

Jimmy Haslam just said Jackson was going to be the coach in 2018 (naturally he could be lying but let's take him at his word, because we all know how honest Jimmy Haslam is). So he's also handcuffed his next GM on the most important decision a GM can make. Browns gonna Brown.

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17 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

I assume the Browns are going to fire Jackson, and just prefer to a little later (presumably at the end of the season).  You can argue Jackson got dealt a rough hand, but he is pretty clearly part of the problem. 

Jackson is the main part of the problem in my opinion.  The front office drafted some talented players, certainly more than any other front office the team has had since coming back to Cleveland.  Jackson is just a shit coach.

At any rate, I made a personal promise that, if the Browns kept Hue Jackson and gave him more power, I was done with them.  Guess I'm transitioning to Panthers fandom next year officially.  Going to be weird. 

Edited by briantw

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Sad thing, I think the Browns made the right call postponing their real QB hire until this coming draft.  Very few people saw Watson being the QB he seems to be and their slot is one made for a safe pick, not a die roll.

The plan is working.  Not quickly, and Hue is probably not the choice to run it when the pieces are in place, but the team is shaping up nicely.

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3 minutes ago, Bronn Stone said:

Sad thing, I think the Browns made the right call postponing their real QB hire until this coming draft.  Very few people saw Watson being the QB he seems to be and their slot is one made for a safe pick, not a die roll.

The plan is working.  Not quickly, and Hue is probably not the choice to run it when the pieces are in place, but the team is shaping up nicely.

Well, it is without a doubt the wrong call in retrospect.  This is a results business, and they made the wrong call.  I can understand why they did it, lots of people were wrong about Watson, and they were one of them. 

In general I think that the Browns are still in good shape to be quite good in the future if the qb they draft this year can be at least decent.  In the NFL you can go from terrible to good in just a season, and it's possible that the Browns defense in 2018 will make the same jump the Jags defense did this year.   

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8 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Well, it is without a doubt the wrong call in retrospect.  This is a results business, and they made the wrong call.  I can understand why they did it, lots of people were wrong about Watson, and they were one of them. 

In general I think that the Browns are still in good shape to be quite good in the future if the qb they draft this year can be at least decent.  In the NFL you can go from terrible to good in just a season, and it's possible that the Browns defense in 2018 will make the same jump the Jags defense did this year.   

I dispute that even on a results basis.  It was never a one year plan.  It should not have been a one year plan.  It could not be a one year plan.  Anyone expecting a one year plan was doomed to failure.

Plus, it is too early to declare Watson a sure thing going forward.

There are NEVER ANY circumstances under which a decision maker should be judged on the basis of information that could not be had.

Edited by Bronn Stone

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3 minutes ago, Bronn Stone said:

I dispute that even on a results basis.  It was never a one year plan.  It should not have been a one year plan.  It could not be a one year plan.  Anyone expecting a one year plan was doomed to failure.

Plus, it is too early to declare Watson a sure thing going forward.

Well, I'm fairly sure that the Texans would rather have Watson, even coming off a knee injury, than their first round pick this year and last year.  QBs are never about just one year, but often just a one year sample can show "this guy has got it".  Watson isn't a sure thing, but it's a damn good start.
 

Quote

There are NEVER ANY circumstances under which a decision maker should be judged on the basis of information that could not be had.

Could not be had?  Obviously the Texans felt there was sufficient information to determine he'd be good.  It's not like there isn't film of the guy, he actually has more game film vs top college defenses than almost any college prospect ever.  Some scouts interpreted that information to indicate that his weaknesses in things like accuracy mean he won't be a successful pro.  Other scouts saw his success vs NFL level defensive players as indicative that he could succeed.  While it remains to be seen which group was ultimately correct, the early returns are that the doubters were very, very wrong.  Just like they were for Russel Wilson about his height, Kirk Cousins about his arm strength, etc. 

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4 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

 While it remains to be seen which group was ultimately correct, the early returns are that the doubters were very, very wrong.  Just like they were for Russel Wilson about his height, Kirk Cousins about his arm strength, etc. 

Or RG III.  Or former Rookie of the Year Vince Young...

How many QB needy teams passed on Watson?  Bears, Niners, Jaguars, Chiefs, Jets,  Chargers?

And even the Texans.  It's not like they KNEW. Had they known, they'd have traded much farther up.

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