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Manhole Eunuchsbane

U.S. Politics 2017: He's Good Enough, He's Smart Enough, and GODDAMMIT AL, WTF WERE YOU THINKING?

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Good title.

I was thinking if I got to it U.S. Politics: "How will this effect ME, Al Franken?"

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2 minutes ago, drawkcabi said:

Good title.

I was thinking if I got to it U.S. Politics: "How will this effect ME, Al Franken?"

I love his stuff. Rush Limbaugh Is a Big Fat Idiot was my intro to political satire. This is pretty brutal.

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2 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

I love his stuff. Rush Limbaugh Is a Big Fat Idiot was my intro to political satire. This is pretty brutal.

I don't know why; 10 years ago if you saw this you would have laughed, and if anyone dared talk about how bad it looked you would have called them a humorless asshole. Heck, that's probably the case 2 years ago. 

Women - and abusing, raping, groping, fondling them, often against their will - has long been a source for humor. Benny Hill basically had half of the skits about that, IIRC. Dane Cook had jokes about raping women with chainsaws a few years back. Bet you a buck that whatever comedy show you like 5 years ago had it in spades. It's everywhere if you want to look for it. Most people don't. 

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That's what I said in the last thread. Spend an hour on the internet and you can find a few hundred examples without much of a problem.

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6 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

I don't know why; 10 years ago if you saw this you would have laughed, and if anyone dared talk about how bad it looked you would have called them a humorless asshole. Heck, that's probably the case 2 years ago. 

Women - and abusing, raping, groping, fondling them, often against their will - has long been a source for humor. Benny Hill basically had half of the skits about that, IIRC. Dane Cook had jokes about raping women with chainsaws a few years back. Bet you a buck that whatever comedy show you like 5 years ago had it in spades. It's everywhere if you want to look for it. Most people don't. 

Yeah, God forbid I should change my perspective on something as trivial as sexual harassment. :rolleyes: That said, that is probably a fair assessment.

Yeah, that second bit is fair as well. Many comics that I'm a fan of today have problematic bits regarding women. Moreso in the realm of misogynistic viewpoints as opposed to rape or harassment, but yeah, I've laughed at jokes that I probably should've groaned at. 

 

/Edited to add: The thing is that Franken has never really been one of those guys. There was the aforementioned Leslie Stahl rape joke, but that was made in a writer's room, not told on a stage or written into a skit. I think there's a distinction to be made between those two things.  

Edited by Manhole Eunuchsbane

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1 minute ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Yeah, God forbid I should change my perspective on something as trivial as sexual harassment. :rolleyes: That said, that is probably a fair assessment.

It's not about you specifically. Another way to put it is this: you shouldn't consider this pretty brutal, because if you do and this keeps its trajectory you're going to find basically every single person you've enjoyed or laughed at or followed to be very, very bad people. 

Which they might be!

But Franken, while he was a comic, doing harassment as comedy is not that surprising. 

1 minute ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Yeah, that second bit is fair as well. Many comics that I'm a fan of today have problematic bits regarding women. Moreso in the realm of misogynistic viewpoints as opposed to rape or harassment, but yeah, I've laughed at jokes that I probably should've groaned at. 

Here's a good one: virtually every Dan Harmon show is very, very problematic now. Community, Scrubs, Cougar Town? And super Rick & Morty. 

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Eh, Rick and Morty? Really? I mean, I don't know much with regards to season 3 but the rape stuff in hmmm wait ok no never mind I just remembered a bunch of stuff.

I think the people who cried foul over the Love Potion episode missed the entire point of it though.

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17 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

It's not about you specifically. Another way to put it is this: you shouldn't consider this pretty brutal, because if you do and this keeps its trajectory you're going to find basically every single person you've enjoyed or laughed at or followed to be very, very bad people. 

Which they might be!

But Franken, while he was a comic, doing harassment as comedy is not that surprising. 

Here's a good one: virtually every Dan Harmon show is very, very problematic now. Community, Scrubs, Cougar Town? And super Rick & Morty. 

Yeah, I'm not convinced that Al is a "very, very bad person", on the back of this, but I think it's fair to cast say Louis CK in that light at this point. And I'd bet the mortgage that you're right in that other comics/actors/directors/writers and the like that I'm a fan of will be caught out before this is all over.

That last bit I find to be problematic, and I'm not even much of a Harmon fan. I don't think material in of itself can be judged the same way that an individual's actions should be. 

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1 minute ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Yeah, I'm not convinced that Al is a "very, very bad person", on the back of this,

I don't think he is either, but again - if you think what Franken did was 'pretty brutal', you're going to be having a bad time here soon, I suspect. 

1 minute ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

That last bit I find to be problematic, and I'm not even much of a Harmon fan. I don't think material in of itself can be judged the same way that an individual's actions should be. 

I don't think you have to call for Harmon to serve jail time, but I think it's reasonable to recognize a lot of problematic stuff in his work. And not just old stuff. I think he's very funny and I really like his shows, but that doesn't also stop me from seeing some of the super sexist bullshit they have in there and how women in his shows get treated. The reason that Franken joked about this in 2006 is the same reason Harmon is writing about things like he is right now, and the two are linked - and both are linked to Trump bragging about grabbing pussy. 

This is another reason to support Franken getting more than an apology - because anything that Franken did, Trump did far, far more of. If one is ethically compromised, the other is as well. You can't reasonably say that Franken did something horrible while saying that Trump walking in on teenagers getting dressed is not, for instance.

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41 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Women - and abusing, raping, groping, fondling them, often against their will - has long been a source for humor. Benny Hill basically had half of the skits about that, 

FUCK

YOU FUCKING ASSHOLE

 

You just broke my 15 year streak of not thinking about Benny Hill

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Just now, denstorebog said:

FUCK

YOU FUCKING ASSHOLE

 

You just broke my 15 year streak of not thinking about Benny Hill

REVENGE FOR THE PINK STRETCH IS FINALLY MINE

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To a certain extent, there almost has to be an amnesty on historic instances of inappropriate behaviour. I dunno where you'd set the bar for such a thing, but I'm pretty sure things like pulling out your manhood and stroking it in front of a / some women without that being a consented thing would not be covered by a behavioral amnesty, But maybe Al Franken's staged [probable] non-contact breast grab might be covered.

If South Africa can have a truth and reconciliation commission on apartheid, which did a lot to heal some pretty severe wounds. Then maybe there is a place for something similar on historic sexual harassment. Though I'd hate to have to try to write the terms of reference for such a thing.

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2 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

I don't think he is either, but again - if you think what Franken did was 'pretty brutal', you're going to be having a bad time here soon, I suspect. 

I don't think you have to call for Harmon to serve jail time, but I think it's reasonable to recognize a lot of problematic stuff in his work. And not just old stuff. I think he's very funny and I really like his shows, but that doesn't also stop me from seeing some of the super sexist bullshit they have in there and how women in his shows get treated. The reason that Franken joked about this in 2006 is the same reason Harmon is writing about things like he is right now, and the two are linked - and both are linked to Trump bragging about grabbing pussy. 

This is another reason to support Franken getting more than an apology - because anything that Franken did, Trump did far, far more of. If one is ethically compromised, the other is as well. You can't reasonably say that Franken did something horrible while saying that Trump walking in on teenagers getting dressed is not, for instance.

I was referring more to the situation/circumstance as being brutal, moreso than the act. I know this isn't the correct PC sort of response, but on a scale of all the recent revelations, I think this one is the least heinous. Not that this gives him any sort of a pass. I'm not sure horrible is the right word to describe it, but I'm not sure what word I would use in its' place.

Point taken regarding the material being linked to what has in the past been considered to be acceptable behavior. This is a sea change sort of a moment, methinks, and I imagine that it will change the filter somewhat on what is considered to be acceptable in terms of content.

And yes, I agree that Franken needs to be punished, I'm just not sure what that should consist of. At this point I'm not onboard with resignation.Given the current atmosphere, it might just come to that though.

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Corker turns on Tillerson
The GOP Senate Foreign Relations Committee chairman and longtime defender joins a chorus of criticism over the Secretary of State's plans to restructure his department.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/16/bob-corker-rex-tillerson-state-department-criticism-245560


Thank god there are adults in the room with Trump. :)

Kushner got emails about WikiLeaks, Russia in 2016, lawmakers say

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/16/jared-kushner-wikileaks-emails-245197?lo=ap_f1

Edited by Martell Spy

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1 hour ago, Kalbear said:

Women - and abusing, raping, groping, fondling them, often against their will - has long been a source for humor. Benny Hill basically had half of the skits about that, IIRC. Dane Cook had jokes about raping women with chainsaws a few years back. Bet you a buck that whatever comedy show you like 5 years ago had it in spades. It's everywhere if you want to look for it. Most people don't. 

While this is a good point, it is severely undercut by the horrific implication that Dane Cook has ever been funny.

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6 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

While this is a good point, it is severely undercut by the horrific implication that Dane Cook has ever been funny.

I still enjoy his Burger King bit. *Lowers head in shame*

Edited by Manhole Eunuchsbane

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