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Manhole Eunuchsbane

U.S. Politics 2017: He's Good Enough, He's Smart Enough, and GODDAMMIT AL, WTF WERE YOU THINKING?

404 posts in this topic

1 minute ago, OldGimletEye said:

If you love this country so much, then surely you realize we could be doing a hell of lot better, than what we are doing right now. To make this place a fairer and better country for everyone.

I just don't see what has fundamentally changed in the last two years other than a single change in who has the title of President. Literally nothing else has changed. This idea that the world is suddenly doom and gloom because of who sits in the White House is a crock of bullshit. I see this movement around trying to frame whatever your political opponent believes in terms of eradicating them. I don't want to live in a world without liberals and conservatives living together. We need opposing views and ideas to thrive as a culture.  At some point we became focused on not just arguing opposing viewpoints but arguing that those viewpoints should not exist. The idea that a political idea is fundamentally invalid and should not exist is what is really fucked up about this country. I'm for everyone having their say and being open to others ideas to at least have a place in the discussion. Seems like most people around here only want to hear one view point and swarm together to eradicate anyone who even thinks a slightly different way. 

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2 minutes ago, ljkeane said:

You measure economic mobility, what else would you do? The US generally scores worse than most European countries.

Thats true, except for the UK which is pretty much the worst when it comes to that. I don't actually know what the reasons for this are though, and its something that has been happening for a long time. 

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23 hours ago, Week said:

I'd guess that you have very few minority friends, family, and neighbors who. This is really a pretty awful sentiment -- but I'm sure you know that. 

Your foreign relations perspective is equally warped. The rest of the world has realized they cannot rely on the steadfastness of the US as an ally and partner. They've moved on and will leave us out -- Paris, TPP, etc. the rest of the world marches forward while "we" yell at black athletes and families for being ungrateful. What the fuck?

 

Just to add to your comment.

That last line is just pure nonsense. At no point, has Trump every shown the slightest command of understanding policy. I'd say he has the attention span of a two year old, but that would be an unfair smear against two year olds. He simply bullshitted his way in the WH, with help of a party that has been insane for quite awhile.

This whole idea of: "Golly lets just throw an idiot into the White House and see what happens! Maybe things will shake out for the best." is insane. If  I wanted the thrill of a pure gamble, I'd go to the craps table.

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1 minute ago, zelticgar said:

I just don't see what has fundamentally changed in the last two years other than a single change in who has the title of President. Literally nothing else has changed. This idea that the world is suddenly doom and gloom because of who sits in the White House is a crock of bullshit. 

There was a lot of similar talk from republicans and conservatives when Obama was in the Whitehouse. The urge is always to exaggerate and preach doom. 

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6 minutes ago, ljkeane said:

You measure economic mobility, what else would you do? The US generally scores worse than most European countries.

ETA: I imagine it’s probably most EU countries rather than most European countries in fairness.

Yeah, sorry, a slip there. 

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3 minutes ago, Eggegg said:

Thats true, except for the UK which is pretty much the worst when it comes to that. I don't actually know what the reasons for this are though, and its something that has been happening for a long time. 

Last time I looked, although it was a couple of years ago, the US was also behind the UK. The UK tends to be the worst of the European countries though. 

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23 hours ago, zelticgar said:

I just don't see what has fundamentally changed in the last two years other than a single change in who has the title of President. Literally nothing else has changed. This idea that the world is suddenly doom and gloom because of who sits in the White House is a crock of bullshit. I see this movement around trying to frame whatever your political opponent believes in terms of eradicating them. I don't want to live in a world without liberals and conservatives living together. We need opposing views and ideas to thrive as a culture.  At some point we became focused on not just arguing opposing viewpoints but arguing that those viewpoints should not exist. The idea that a political idea is fundamentally invalid and should not exist is what is really fucked up about this country. I'm for everyone having their say and being open to others ideas to at least have a place in the discussion. Seems like most people around here only want to hear one view point and swarm together to eradicate anyone who even thinks a slightly different way. 

Well for one, to the extent there hasn't been change it's largely because Trump and the party that aids and abets him are incompetent. And the policies that Trump and the Republicans want to do are truly terrible. Everything from their dumb attempts to repeal the ACA, that asshole Jeb Hensarling's dumb Financial Bomb Act, to their stupid corporate tax cuts. And of course their playing footsie with alt right jackasses. And the crummy shit Trump does to and says about minorities, women etc. and conservatives have nothing to say about it.

But, I don't agree that nothing has changed. The fact of the matter is the people that Trump appoints to various post can do a lot of damage. There is lot of reason to worry what about the Supreme Court for example.

And Barack Obama did get some positive shit done.

Also, I utterly reject your "both sides" stuff. While liberals may not always be perfect, the fact of the matter is American Conservatism has simply lost it's mind. And it has for several years. It has simply gone down into the intellectual gutter.

Bottom line, it's a fine thing to be open minded, but not so open minded to the point your brains just ooze out of your head.

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23 hours ago, Eggegg said:

There was a lot of similar talk from republicans and conservatives when Obama was in the Whitehouse. The urge is always to exaggerate and preach doom. 

Well except there was a lot to be furious with Republicans and Conservatives during the Obama years. I mean there is a lot to get aggravated about when it comes to conservatives, and I can't cover it all, but for me their insane nonsense when this country was dealing with one of the worst downturns since the Great Depression was downright infuriating. Just frickin' terrible.

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8 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

 

Bottom line, it's a fine thing to be open minded, but not so open minded to the point your brains just ooze out of your head.

There’s the problem. When you fail to even consider an opposing view,  you end up arguing against the existence of that set of people you disagree with.  Not a healthy way to live.  Seems to be happening at levels I’ve never seen before, on both sides of the aisle.  

The vitriol towards me even asserting there might be a reason to be thankful on Thanksgiving is a perfect example of this dynamic. 

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22 minutes ago, Eggegg said:

There was a lot of similar talk from republicans and conservatives when Obama was in the Whitehouse. The urge is always to exaggerate and preach doom. 

This guy gets it! 

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22 hours ago, zelticgar said:

There’s the problem. When you fail to even consider an opposing view,  you end up arguing against the existence of that set of people you disagree with.  Not a healthy way to live.  Seems to be happening at levels I’ve never seen before, on both sides of the aisle.  

The vitriol towards me even asserting there might be a reason to be thankful on Thanksgiving is a perfect example of this dynamic. 

Because the arguments made by the other side are usually pure nonsense. And they have been for awhile.

If you want to get into this "both sides" game, I'm not going to listen. Just taking both sides arguments and then doing an average is no way to understand policy.

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7 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

Because the arguments made by the other side are usually pure nonsense. And they have been for awhile.

If you want to get into this "both sides" game, I'm not going to listen. Just taking both sides arguments and then doing an average is no way to understand policy.

“The Waa! I’m taking my ball home approach!”

this is what I’m talking about. As i said before. I don’t want to live in a world without both conservatives and liberals. You need to be tolerant of a diversity of opinions and views.  

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Now conservative sorts of people, should I:

1. Agree that the Brownback boom was a success. Should I agree that Stephen Moore’s views are just as valid as everyone else's?

2. Should I agree that Dow 36000 Man Kevin Hastett has reasonable views about his corporate tax cuts.

3. Should I agree that Jeb Hensarlings views about financial regulation are equally valid?

4. Should I agree that getting on the gold standard would be a good idea just so I can look all centristy and stuff?

5. Should I agree that every wacko conservative conspiracy theory has some validity just so I can look all reasonable and centristy and stuff?

6. Should I agree that Kevin Warsh’s views were reasonable, just so I could look all centristry and stuff?

7. Should I agree that adverse selection isn’t an issue if you’re trying to achieve universal coverage so I can look all centristry and stuff.

8. Should I agree that playing footsie with the alt right is okay, so I can look all centristy and stuff.

9. Should I ignore particular problems that concern minorities and women, just so I can look all centristy and stuf

10. Should I just go around saying both sides are equally bad so I can go around looking all reasonable and centristry and stuff?

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23 hours ago, zelticgar said:

“The Waa! I’m taking my ball home approach!”

this is what I’m talking about. As i said before. I don’t want to live in a world without both conservatives and liberals. You need to be tolerant of a diversity of opinions and views.  

Hardly.

All you are doing is basically trying to do an average here of both sides, in order to look all centristy and reasonable.  And really that doesn't work. You think it does, but it doesn't.

And while I'm always willing to listen to well thought out arguments, not so much with just pure garbage, which there has been a lot of from conservatives as of late.

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57 minutes ago, Week said:

They've moved on and will leave us out -- Paris, TPP, etc. the rest of the world marches forward while "we" yell at black athletes and families for being ungrateful. What the fuck?

So much this.

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1 hour ago, zelticgar said:

Just a supporter of our great country! Thankful for all the blessings we have in the US. :D

 

I feel so lucky to be in the US.  Hope you have a wonderful Thanksgiving.

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26 minutes ago, zelticgar said:

There’s the problem. When you fail to even consider an opposing view,  you end up arguing against the existence of that set of people you disagree with.  Not a healthy way to live.  Seems to be happening at levels I’ve never seen before, on both sides of the aisle.  

The vitriol towards me even asserting there might be a reason to be thankful on Thanksgiving is a perfect example of this dynamic. 

Being thankful on a day of culinary propaganda is one thing, but you made a number of verifiably, comically false claims and then when people  gave facts you were all "that's just like your opinion, dude."  

People who think things are "so great" with Trump in office occupy a space of tremendous privilege and are possessed of an extraordinarily simple mind nearly void of reason and logic.  They are also indescribably cruel.

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14 minutes ago, Lord of Rhinos said:

I feel so lucky to be in the US.  Hope you have a wonderful Thanksgiving.

I am embarrassed to be in the US and thankful I'm allowed to be.

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23 minutes ago, zelticgar said:

When you fail to even consider an opposing view,

The idea that all views have merit tho, is bullshit. 

White supremacy for instance, is bullshit.  Yet Trump is a WS to the core.  Supply side economics is bullshit, and yet, the R's think that tax cuts for the very rich will cause an economic boom like something unseen.  Yet it has been proven to be untrue. 

The R's now want to put forward the idea that a man, disbarred from judgeships for his unlawful ways (on record) now facing credible accusations of sexual assault of underage girls is a fine prospect for becoming a US Senator.  This exceeds bullshit and is just awful.

Trump is draining teh swamp;  :lmao: .   What bullshit!   B Devos is a big turd in that swamp and Trump put her there.  He's put plenty of other turds there too.  Some of the turds he suggested had to decline his attempts to appoint them because they were too awful;  Sam Clovis and Tom Price for two examples.  

That killing net neutrality will create more competition which will bring lower prices and more choices.  Bullshit and especially specious idea. 

Or that some undefined 'chaos' is better than stability.   BULLSHIT

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Not sure if this was posted already but if not, it's worth a read. Remember when Trump told Lavrov and Kislyak highly classified intelligence from the Israeli's on the day after he fired Comey? Here is the story.

 

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