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U.S. Politics 2017: He's Good Enough, He's Smart Enough, and GODDAMMIT AL, WTF WERE YOU THINKING?


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1 minute ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Geeze, there has been the argument that farming endangered animals is a way of preserving them, and there is some logic to that. After all, cows, sheep, pigs, chickens and horses aren't going extinct any time soon. But there are also some serious flaws to the argument.

But hunting wild populations of endangered animals as a way to conserve a species? That's some tortured logic. What is the logic? Kill 100 animals in a legal way that brings clean money into the local community so as to prevent people from killing 200 animals in an illegal way that brings dirty money in? 

Here's an idea, let's try to help people develop a sustainable economy which does not rely on killing endangered animals?

 

That will never happen because it makes too much sense. The activists protecting endangered species are incapable of seeing the logic  of that you propose . 

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2 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

Sorry for cross-posting (just posted this in the Fempire Strikes Back thread), but I think it's an important practical point to consider:

Anyway, Re: Franken, I think announcing retirement is an appropriate solution in principle, but yes, the politics do still matter.  If the extent of his misconduct is that photo and Tweeden's account of the french kiss, I guarantee there is a large (large) swathe of MCs with more egregious behavior.  So, this would set a precedent that Democratic MCs retire.  That'd be fine if ignoring the fact everybody knows GOP members would in no way follow the same standard.  if you think gerrymandering's iniquity is disproportionate... 

This.  I don't think Franken can resign over the allegations made against him so far. (Assuming nothing more horrendous comes out....) It sets the bar soooooooo low for Democrats. Republicans sure as all hell won't follow a precedent set by a Democrat.

And Trump has just tweeted about Franken. If you can believe it, he says where did the hands go in pictures 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. A fucker who bragged about "grab 'em by the pussy'. Moral leadership indeed.

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Oren Hatch just ranted on taxes in a Senate hearing room a moment ago, telling Democrats to stop the bullcrap that the tax bill was about helping the rich. He came from a poor family and he has always fought for everyone and [fuck] you! Shouting match with Sherrit (?) Brown.

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16 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Here's an idea, let's try to help people develop a sustainable economy which does not rely on killing endangered animals?

I like that idea but then how do rich pukes like the Trump boys get their killing endangered beasts rocks off?  Won't someone PLEASE think of the children?

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9 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

Sorry for cross-posting (just posted this in the Fempire Strikes Back thread), but I think it's an important practical point to consider:

Anyway, Re: Franken, I think announcing retirement is an appropriate solution in principle, but yes, the politics do still matter.  If the extent of his misconduct is that photo and Tweeden's account of the french kiss, I guarantee there is a large (large) swathe of MCs with more egregious behavior.  So, this would set a precedent that Democratic MCs retire.  That'd be fine if ignoring the fact everybody knows GOP members would in no way follow the same standard.  if you think gerrymandering's iniquity is disproportionate... 

I think acting on your own principles irrespective of the shittiness of the principles of others (or worse yet the double standards and hypocrisy of how other people apply their principles) is more important than some short term political disadvantage which might result.

Part of the problem in current politics is that too many people think they're all the same on both sides when it comes to ethics and principles, which is to say people thing there is an absence of both. If Democrats take a zero tolerance approach to sexual misconduct, that immediately becomes a point of difference and the opportunity for cynical voters to start to think that one party actually stands for something other than getting in power and staying in power.

The fact that Franken thought a staged almost boob grab on a sleeping woman would make for a good photo op speaks volumes. There are lots of options for a funny photo where a sleeping person is involved that are in no way sexual. The classic of course is drawing a moustache on them. Franken only needed to be looking like he was moving a black marker pen in the direction of her upper lip for it to be an equally funny photo op without it being sexually creepy.

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Well, this happened....

Quote

 

A gold trader who is close to Turkish President Recep Erdogan is now cooperating with federal prosecutors in a money-laundering case, according to two sources with knowledge of the matter, and legal experts say prosecutors may be seeking information about any ties between the Turkish government and former National Security Advisor Mike Flynn.

Reza Zarrab, a dual Turkish-Iranian national, faces charges in federal court in Manhattan for skirting sanctions on Iran by allegedly moving hundreds of millions of dollars for the Iranian government and Iranian firms via offshore entities and bank accounts.~~~~snip~~~~

Special Counsel Robert Mueller is investigating whether Erdogan offered Flynn upwards of $15 million during the presidential transition in December to use his upcoming position as national security advisor to return his top political rival from the U.S. to Turkey and to see that Zarab's case was dropped, NBC has reported.

Attorney Danny Cevallos, a legal analyst for MSNBC and NBC News, says that given the relationship between Erdogan and Zarrab and the allegations of an improper relationship between Flynn and the Turkish government, Zarrab's decision to cooperate with federal prosecutors is a significant development.  

 

 

Who was it Flynn worked for awhile back?   hmmmmm, oh yeah, Trump.  :angry2:

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8 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

I think acting on your own principles irrespective of the shittiness of the principles of others (or worse yet the double standards and hypocrisy of how other people apply their principles) is more important than some short term political disadvantage which might result.

Part of the problem in current politics is that too many people think they're all the same on both sides when it comes to ethics and principles, which is to say people thing there is an absence of both. If Democrats take a zero tolerance approach to sexual misconduct, that immediately becomes a point of difference and the opportunity for cynical voters to start to think that one party actually stands for something other than getting in power and staying in power.

First, I don't think it would just be a "short term political disadvantage."  By both firsthand and a multitude of secondhand accounts, sexual misconduct in Congress is still rampant, if somewhat quelled from the good ol' boy grab-ass frat the Hill was up to the 1990s.  I expect Franken to be the tip of a Titanic-sized iceberg - which is a good thing.

Second, it's naive to pose the Dems willingly employing a double standard as an opportunity to reach disaffected ("cynical") voters.  I fail to see any logic that a host of Dem retirements while the GOP weathers accusations will galvanize the disengaged to the polls.  If anything, it'd just make more people stay home.

23 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Oren Hatch just ranted on taxes in a Senate hearing room a moment ago, telling Democrats to stop the bullcrap that the tax bill was about helping the rich. He came from a poor family and he has always fought for everyone and [fuck] you! Shouting match with Sherrit (?) Brown.

Orrin Hatch and Sherrod Brown. :) 

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30 minutes ago, Nasty LongRider said:

Well, this happened....

Who was it Flynn worked for awhile back?   hmmmmm, oh yeah, Trump.  :angry2:

That's a very interesting story.  I think Flynn is fucked.  The only question now is what type of deal, if any, is Mueller willing to give Flynn in exchange for testimony against Trump.  I'm a little worried though that if Flynn is given immunity or a lesser sentence, he still maintains that Trump didn't do anything wrong.  Not sure if that would be grounds for revoking the immunity or plea bargain.  Can a deal be made conditional on providing dirt on Trump that leads to Trump's indictment, so that if the information he provides is crap the deal is void?

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I’m not particularly thrilled about the idea of Biden running, as I think the Democratic Party badly needs some new blood, but anyway interesting.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/15/16655154/joe-biden-trump-2020-poll

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If Vice President Joe Biden ran against President Trump today, the odds are that he’d win, according to a new poll.

In a Politico/Morning Consult poll conducted from November 9 to 11, 46 percent of voters said they would vote for Biden in 2020, as opposed to 35 percent of voters who said they’d vote for President Trump. Biden’s 11-point margin against Trump is considerable, and it comes at a time when the former vice president is generating a lot of buzz around a possible presidential campaign.

..............................................

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/11/16/black-men-sentenced-to-more-time-for-committing-the-exact-same-crime-as-a-white-person-study-finds/

Quote

Black men who commit the same crimes as white men receive federal prison sentences that are, on average, nearly 20 percent longer, according to a new report on sentencing disparities from the United States Sentencing Commission (USSC).

These disparities were observed “after controlling for a wide variety of sentencing factors,” including age, education, citizenship, weapon possession and prior criminal history.

 

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A somewhat interesting essay about your libertarian feudal overlords.

https://niskanencenter.org/blog/libertarian-democracy-skepticism-infected-american-right/

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In her book Democracy in Chains: The Deep History of the Radical Right’s Stealth Plan for America, which has been shortlisted for the National Book Award, the Duke University historian Nancy MacLean advances the surprising thesis that the hidden figure behind the contemporary libertarian-leaning political right was the economist James M. Buchanan . Buchanan is far from a household name, though he has been influential in economics and political science, and was awarded a Nobel Prize in 1986 “for his development of the contractual and constitutional bases for the theory of economic and political decision-making.” MacLean argues that Buchanan, animated by Southern segregationist impulses and backed by dark Koch-brothers cash, quietly and effectively sought to undermine democracy — to put it “in chains” — to keep America safe for white supremacist plutocracy. 

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Reading for the weekend about that Brownback Boom.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2958353

Quote

In 2012, Kansas undertook a large-scale tax reform that excluded certain forms of business income from individual taxation. In theory, these changes enhance the incentives to undertake more real economic activity such as new business formation or increases in employment or investment. But, the reform also shifted the incentives to avoid taxation by recharacterizing income sources. This paper provides evidence of these effects using federal administrative taxpayer data. Drawing on these data from 2010 to 2014, we find evidence suggesting that, at both extensive and intensive margins, the behavioral responses were overwhelmingly tax avoidance rather than real supply side responses.

 

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7 hours ago, Nasty LongRider said:

I like that idea but then how do rich pukes like the Trump boys get their killing endangered beasts rocks off?  Won't someone PLEASE think of the children?

Isn' t that what got Roy Moore in trouble?

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8 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

Oren Hatch just ranted on taxes in a Senate hearing room a moment ago, telling Democrats to stop the bullcrap that the tax bill was about helping the rich. He came from a poor family and he has always fought for everyone and [fuck] you! Shouting match with Sherrit (?) Brown.

He’d have a better argument if taxes for families making under 75k didn’t go up after 5 years and if the deduction for buying school supplies for teachers wasn’t being removed in favor of keeping the deduction for owning/leasing a private plane. These people are so out of touch.

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On 11/16/2017 at 10:37 PM, Fragile Bird said:

Oren Hatch just ranted on taxes in a Senate hearing room a moment ago, telling Democrats to stop the bullcrap that the tax bill was about helping the rich. He came from a poor family and he has always fought for everyone and [fuck] you! Shouting match with Sherrit (?) Brown.

I hope Sherrod Brown said fuck you right back to Hatch. 

And Hatch can whine all he wants. The fact is the tax bill is about helping the rich. Hatch doesn't like it? Then tough shit. I hope Brown and other Democrats tell him he can just go to hell.

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I saw Tweeden interviewed by Jake Tapper and my belief in her story and my sympathy for her went sky high.

Now another poster says she's a birther.

My sympathy has just plummeted. Not gone completely, you understand, but vastly diminished. She talked about that picture making her feel violated, the kiss making her disgusted and violated, needing to wash her mouth out. And she claimed President Obama wasn't born in the USA? Talk about a violation of a person. Has she abjectly apologized, the way Franken abjectly apologized to her?

You people have such fucked up politics. :(

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Is the symbolism of Trump approving a measure that will lead to the killing of elephants lost on everyone?

5 hours ago, Mexal said:

He’d have a better argument if taxes for families making under 75k didn’t go up after 5 years and if the deduction for buying school supplies for teachers wasn’t being removed in favor of keeping the deduction for owning/leasing a private plane. These people are so out of touch.

All you have to do is point to the repeal of the estate tax.

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3 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Is the symbolism of Trump approving a measure that will lead to the killing of elephants lost on everyone?

All you have to do is point to the repeal of the estate tax.

Didn't you hear? The repeal of the estate tax is to help farmers.

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Questions as to What Happened to the Bulk of $107 Million Dollars Raised for Trump Inauguration Being Raised

 http://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-inauguration-donations-funds-missing-steve-kerrigan-congress-714118?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

 

/Now you see it, now you don't

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