Could Bravvos be the answer to Dannys woes ??

[Stormking902]

Danny is known as the mother of dragons and more importantly "breaker of chains" and has taken slavers bay by storm freeing all slaves within her power to do so with the mission of freeing them all AND of course take back the 7k in the name of house Targaryan. 

Danny has the man power and three dragons but is missing a key component in reaching Westeros which is a fleet, and another key component in a much needed ally in Essos to help her finish off the rest of the slavers who want her and her movement dead. If she reached out to Bravvos I think she could sell an alliance rather easily by offering them a way to end Slavery in Essos for ever AND by offering them almost all the LOOT gained from the war from Dannys conquered enemies which im sure would be quote substantial.

All Danny wants is Bravvos fleet the money isnt needed one bit, also we can assume Pentos would chose the side opposing Bravvos since they have faught 6 wars against the Bravoshi for differences in views against slavery and the land that sits between the two powers ultimatly Bravvos forced them to give up the ways of slavery altogether. Danny has dragons so is a way more sure bet then any other option and if Pentos is defeated the Bravoshi gain LAND in terms of the land they must share on the Pentoshi boarder which is highly needed since Bravvos mainland is swampy so not very good for growing crops which is why currently they survive thru trade which has made them the richest out of any free city. 

[Josette DuPres]

I find the book scenes in the east more interesting than those taking place in Westeros.  I like Daenerys and I enjoy her side of the story.  I would be fine with Dany staying in the east and rebuilding a new Valyrian Freehold.  This time the economy will not be invested in slavery but trade and agriculture.  She has the power to become an agent of change.  The liberation of the slaves at the Bay is a very good start to what should be a lifelong work of transforming the economy of the east.  Braavos is anti slavery and they can become the ally that she needs.  The East is vast and resources are plenty but reform is clearly needed because it has become too dependent on the slave trade.  Only mighty power can force the needed change.

[Fire Eater]

No, I think the Braavosi will be opposed to Daenerys for the following reasons:

1. If Braavosi, Tycho Nestoris's reaction to Dany's dragons is any indicator, the Braavosi aren't likely to support her any time soon. 

2. The FM are looking for Death of Dragons at the Citadel, because they have been hired to kill her dragons.

3. Dany will likely give Pentos to the Tattered Prince. The Tattered Prince will bring his mercenary army, and he won't disband it since he needs them to hold onto Pentos. Just by having them, he will have violated the treaty with Braavos which prohibits Pentos from employing mercenaries. They likely won't feel comfortable with the thought of a sellsword ruling a neighboring country on their borders. The Braavosi will undoubtedly be mad at Dany doing that. 

4. The Iron Bank, which has a lot of influence in Braavos, already signed a deal with Stannis, and he is the claimant they're backing. Would Daenerys be interested in honoring the debts of the Usurper?  

[Stormking902]

31 minutes ago, Fire Eater said:

No, I think the Braavosi will be opposed to Daenerys for the following reasons:

1. If Braavosi, Tycho Nestoris's reaction to Dany's dragons is any indicator, the Braavosi aren't likely to support her any time soon. 

2. The FM are looking for Death of Dragons at the Citadel, because they have been hired to kill her dragons.

3. Dany will likely give Pentos to the Tattered Prince. The Tattered Prince will bring his mercenary army, and he won't disband it since he needs them to hold onto Pentos. Just by having them, he will have violated the treaty with Braavos which prohibits Pentos from employing mercenaries. They likely won't feel comfortable with the thought of a sellsword ruling a neighboring country on their borders. The Braavosi will undoubtedly be mad at Dany doing that. 

4. The Iron Bank, which has a lot of influence in Braavos, already signed a deal with Stannis, and he is the claimant they're backing. Would Daenerys be interested in honoring the debts of the Usurper?  

2) I don't recall ever reading that someone hired the FM to kill Danny's dragons ? 

3) I doubt the tattered prince gets Pentos but it is plausible. 

4) The Iron Bank is a separate entity from Bravvos although as you said do have a lot of pull, if Danny can convince the Sea Lord of her good will towards Bravvos and truly ending slavery forever I cant see why an agreement couldnt be made. Also the Iron Bank likes to back several sides if they "need" to placing bets on the beautiful mother of dragons with an army and possible future Iron islands alliance in Victarion seems like a logical bet. 

[bemused]

I'm expecting a lot to be revealed about Braavos in the next book. I don't think the Iron Bank is entirely separate and apart from the rulership of Braavos. At the very least, I can't imagine it would work against the interests of the state.

As well, considering the origins of the state, I'd be surprised if Braavos didn't have it's own information about the vulnerabilities of dragons. So, I doubt stealing "The Death of Dragons" can be the reason for having a FM in the citadel (and he definitely seems to be engaged in an intelligence mission rather than an assassination, so far).

Tycho Nestoris says to Jon .. "My lord jests. You will forgive me if I do not laugh. We Braavosi are descended from those who fled Valyria and the wroth of its dragonlords. We do not jape of dragons." ... Understandable ... yet they settled Valyria's grievance against them to facilitate The Unmasking and co-existed with the dragonlords from that time up until the Doom. Westeros was a major source of trade long before the Conquest and remained so afterward, so we can assume amicable relations existed between Braavos and Targaryens up until RR (and even in the aftermath, if we can judge by Doran's marriage pact and the sheltering of Viserys and Dany).

What Braavos hid from for centuries was not so much dragons as the wroth of Valyria's dragonlords.Braavos need not be nervous of Dany's dragons unless Dany has a reason to be enraged by some Braavosi action.   

Valyria's gripe with Braavos was the theft of ships and slaves.  Dany has been freeing slaves and breaking up the slave trade wherever she goes. Braavos keeps no slaves and slavers cannot even dock in her harbour. ...So far, so sympatico ...

The only thing we know of that could rouse Dany's ire against Braavos is the way she and Viserys were cast out. Her memory of that is very sketchy, but we can be pretty sure TPTB in Braavos know what went down in much clearer detail. Still, we have been given some clues (up to and including the Mercy chapter) that allow us to draw some (I think) reasonable conclusions as to Braavos' apprehensions.

1. The Sealord at the time of RR witnessed the marriage pact and secretly sheltered D&V in Braavos. ... (We might ask if he also bore the expense, or a share of it.) ..I'm calling him Sealord 1.

2. We know that Robert wanted D&V dead, even when they seemed to pose no threat to him. When he learned where they were, he would have made some demand of the Sealord (and perhaps threatened to close his ports to Braavosi ships?)

3. I have doubts that Sealord 1 would have cast them out... That would have put him up against Doran and Oberyn (yikes) as well as (possibly) the Archon .. But if he had died and his successor, the current Sealord Ferrago Antaryen (Sealord 2) had been installed ..who would have had no part in the pact and possibly didn't even know about it , then pressure from Robert would reach a much more compliant target.

4.  Ferrago is dying and he may be being helped along his way .. before Braavos has to deal with Dany. She now knows about the pact who knows what other details will soon come to light.

The Mercy chapter seems to hold a clue in the play The Merchant's melancholy daughter...

Spoiler

 

Mercy preferred the scene where the fat merchant shat on the Sealord’s head as he passed underneath in his gold-and-purple barge. Only in Braavos could something like that happen, it was said, and only in Braavos would Sealord and sailor alike howl with laughter to see it.

That is a current play, since Phario Forel is alive and writing - so the laughing Sealord is very likely to be the current Sealord. Why would he laugh at such an insult to the office, unless the Sealord represented in the play had been a political opponent.. Laughing, he seems to identify more with the fat merchant.

 

Later, Daena tells "Mercy" about the Reyaans (keyholders)...

Spoiler

 

“They’re all fat, them Reyaans,” Daena said. “Bellies as big as their ships. You should have seen the father. He made this one look small. One time he was summoned to the Hall of Truth to vote, but when he stepped onto his barge it sank.”

So the Reyaans are fat, influential merchants ... but "the father" apparently is no more and his barge has sunk ... which could imply that his political views are now underwater.(And the Sealord is dying)

 

This is all very suggestive to me. (We're told Ferrago has a pleasure barge covered in laughing faces.)

Anyway, I say yes, Braavos could be the answer to at least some of Dany's woes. I'm sure we haven't been told of the world's greatest naval fleet and the Braavosi ability to build a ship in a day for nothing.

[Stormking902]

6 hours ago, bemused said:

I'm expecting a lot to be revealed about Braavos in the next book. I don't think the Iron Bank is entirely separate and apart from the rulership of Braavos. At the very least, I can't imagine it would work against the interests of the state.

As well, considering the origins of the state, I'd be surprised if Braavos didn't have it's own information about the vulnerabilities of dragons. So, I doubt stealing "The Death of Dragons" can be the reason for having a FM in the citadel (and he definitely seems to be engaged in an intelligence mission rather than an assassination, so far).

Tycho Nestoris says to Jon .. "My lord jests. You will forgive me if I do not laugh. We Braavosi are descended from those who fled Valyria and the wroth of its dragonlords. We do not jape of dragons." ... Understandable ... yet they settled Valyria's grievance against them to facilitate The Unmasking and co-existed with the dragonlords from that time up until the Doom. Westeros was a major source of trade long before the Conquest and remained so afterward, so we can assume amicable relations existed between Braavos and Targaryens up until RR (and even in the aftermath, if we can judge by Doran's marriage pact and the sheltering of Viserys and Dany).

What Braavos hid from for centuries was not so much dragons as the wroth of Valyria's dragonlords.Braavos need not be nervous of Dany's dragons unless Dany has a reason to be enraged by some Braavosi action.   

Valyria's gripe with Braavos was the theft of ships and slaves.  Dany has been freeing slaves and breaking up the slave trade wherever she goes. Braavos keeps no slaves and slavers cannot even dock in her harbour. ...So far, so sympatico ...

The only thing we know of that could rouse Dany's ire against Braavos is the way she and Viserys were cast out. Her memory of that is very sketchy, but we can be pretty sure TPTB in Braavos know what went down in much clearer detail. Still, we have been given some clues (up to and including the Mercy chapter) that allow us to draw some (I think) reasonable conclusions as to Braavos' apprehensions.

1. The Sealord at the time of RR witnessed the marriage pact and secretly sheltered D&V in Braavos. ... (We might ask if he also bore the expense, or a share of it.) ..I'm calling him Sealord 1.

2. We know that Robert wanted D&V dead, even when they seemed to pose no threat to him. When he learned where they were, he would have made some demand of the Sealord (and perhaps threatened to close his ports to Braavosi ships?)

3. I have doubts that Sealord 1 would have cast them out... That would have put him up against Doran and Oberyn (yikes) as well as (possibly) the Archon .. But if he had died and his successor, the current Sealord Ferrago Antaryen (Sealord 2) had been installed ..who would have had no part in the pact and possibly didn't even know about it , then pressure from Robert would reach a much more compliant target.

4. The Ferrago is dying and he may be being helped along his way .. before Braavos has to deal with Dany. She now knows about the pact who knows what other details will soon come to light.

The Mercy chapter seems to hold a clue in the play The Merchant's melancholy daughter...

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Mercy preferred the scene where the fat merchant shat on the Sealord’s head as he passed underneath in his gold-and-purple barge. Only in Braavos could something like that happen, it was said, and only in Braavos would Sealord and sailor alike howl with laughter to see it.

That is a current play, since Phario Forel is alive and writing - so the laughing Sealord is very likely to be the current Sealord. Why would he laugh at such an insult to the office, unless the Sealord represented in the play had been a political opponent.. Laughing, he seems to identify more with the fat merchant.

 

Later, Daena tells "Mercy" about the Reyaans (keyholders)...

  Hide contents

 

“They’re all fat, them Reyaans,” Daena said. “Bellies as big as their ships. You should have seen the father. He made this one look small. One time he was summoned to the Hall of Truth to vote, but when he stepped onto his barge it sank.”

So the Reyaans are fat, influential merchants ... but "the father" apparently is no more and his barge has sunk ... which could imply that his political views are now underwater.(And the Sealord is dying)

 

This is all very suggestive to me. (We're told Ferrago has a pleasure barge covered in laughing faces.)

Anyway, I say yes, Braavos could be the answer to at least some of Dany's woes. I'm sure we haven't been told of the world's greatest naval fleet and the Braavosi ability to build a ship in a day for nothing.

Agreed about most of your points especially where GRRM didn't just tell us about Bravvos great Navy for no reason at all, and with two more books left the only logical way I see Bravvos fleet being used is when Danny goes to Westeros finally. 

[Adam Yozza]

Yeah, I agree its entirely possible. Likely even. Three points in support of this stick out in my mind. 1) Braavos hates slaves. Dany is currently liberating slaves. 2) Braavos has a massive and badass navy, pretty much the only alternative left to the Iron Fleet. Dany needs ships to get to Westeros and I don't think it will be with the Iron Fleet. 3) The old sealord was part of Doran's scheme's.

[Fire Eater]

On 11/18/2017 at 7:05 PM, Stormking902 said:

2) I don't recall ever reading that someone hired the FM to kill Danny's dragons ? 

3) I doubt the tattered prince gets Pentos but it is plausible. 

4) The Iron Bank is a separate entity from Bravvos although as you said do have a lot of pull, if Danny can convince the Sea Lord of her good will towards Bravvos and truly ending slavery forever I cant see why an agreement couldnt be made. Also the Iron Bank likes to back several sides if they "need" to placing bets on the beautiful mother of dragons with an army and possible future Iron islands alliance in Victarion seems like a logical bet. 

2) Why else do you think Jaqen is in the Citadel? The only copy of the book, The Death of Dragons, is in there.

3) He will want his payment for switching sides. Dany would be inclined to pay when she learns of Illyrio's true plans. 

4) The Braavosi, a seafaring people, wouldn't be warm towards a nation of pirates like the Iron Isles. I don't think Dany will have time to negotiate with the Sealord as she wants to get to Westeros. They also already made a deal with Stannis, and I don't think Dany would be inclined to pay his debts. I think they're going all in with Stannis.  

[Wolf's Bane]

The Targaryens have been antislavery since Aegon the C.  I can't see any reason why Braavos would oppose Dany.  The Sealord was part of the plot to restore the Targaryens back on the throne. 

The Iron Bank may lose money from the slave trade but they do not represent all of Braavos.