Angel Eyes Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 Why didn't Cersei bring up the fact that all but one of Ned's children look like his wife? She'd make Ned look like the pot calling the kettle black... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lifestream Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 Arya doesn't look like Catelyn though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted November 18, 2017 Author Share Posted November 18, 2017 17 minutes ago, Lifestream said: Arya doesn't look like Catelyn though. That's the all but one. The rest have the Tully looks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faera Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 On a practical level, the thing that really has outdone Cersei is more the fact that Robert has so many bastards and all of them inherited his dark-hair; all of her children look like copies of herself, nothing of Robert. In comparison, I'm guessing Ned's children all look a bit like him despite four out of five of them having auburn hair. After all, Bran mistook his aunt Lyanna for Arya and his uncle Benjen for himself in a Weirwood dream, so he likely has a Stark-look in his face if not hair-colour. 1 hour ago, Angel Eyes said: Why didn't Cersei bring up the fact that all but one of Ned's children look like his wife? She'd make Ned look like the pot calling the kettle black... As for why Cersei didn't even think to turn it around on Ned, I think a lot of it came down to her being genuinely pleased all her children are hers and Jaime's. Getting one over Robert is something she seems to have taken genuine pleasure when we get her POV later in AFfC and rubbing it in his supposed BFF's face was more important than playing the "rubber-glue" card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lifestream Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 37 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said: That's the all but one. The rest have the Tully looks. Eddard had proof though. the book he was studying and before him, Jon Arryn was studying, showed that when Baratheon's and Lannisters marry, their children ALWAYS have black hair. And on top of that Eddard also had Robert's bastards as additional proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphis Baratheon Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 4 hours ago, Faera said: I think a lot of it came down to her being genuinely pleased all her children are hers and Jaime's. Getting one over Robert is something she seems to have taken genuine pleasure when we get her POV later in AFfC and rubbing it in his supposed BFF's face was more important than playing the "rubber-glue" card. Yup, also Cersei never once thinks of her children as bastards. Not even in her deepest thoughts. One paragraph she'll go on about pretenders trying to steal Joff's birthright. The next she'll go on about how Joffrey is strong like his father Jaime. In Cersei's mind none of her kids are bastards, yet none of them are Robert's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Yozza Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 26 minutes ago, Ralphis Baratheon said: Yup, also Cersei never once thinks of her children as bastards. Not even in her deepest thoughts. One paragraph she'll go on about pretenders trying to steal Joff's birthright. The next she'll go on about how Joffrey is strong like his father Jaime. In Cersei's mind none of her kids are bastards, yet none of them are Robert's. Just goes to show how mentally unstable she is. Makes an interesting character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faera Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 8 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said: Yup, also Cersei never once thinks of her children as bastards. Not even in her deepest thoughts. One paragraph she'll go on about pretenders trying to steal Joff's birthright. The next she'll go on about how Joffrey is strong like his father Jaime. In Cersei's mind none of her kids are bastards, yet none of them are Robert's. 3 Indeed. Cersei genuinely sees Jaime and her children as extensions of herself so her feeling that way makes sense in her crazed, warped mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell's son Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 14 hours ago, Angel Eyes said: That's the all but one. The rest have the Tully looks. Jon looks like him too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted November 19, 2017 Author Share Posted November 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Dorian Martell's son said: Jon looks like him too I was referring to Ned’s children with Catelyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eiko Dragonhorn Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Ned isn’t Catelyn... so it’s not a pot/kettle situation. Also Arya exists... Also Catelyn’s brother is 2000 miles away from her... Also no one at Winterfell was murdered while investigating... So I guess Cersei was smart enough not to jump to an irrelevant “butwhatabout”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clegane'sPup Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 There was no need for Cersei to deny or deflect Eddard’s charge. By the time Eddard confronts her, King Robert is dying. In hindsight -- Cersei was holding the better hand. She had LF, Varys and Pycelle feeding her information. Cersei had been scheming to be rid of King Robert for a while. A Game of Thrones - Eddard VII "I will not keep you long, my lord. There are things you must know. You are the King's Hand, and the king is a fool." The eunuch's cloying tones were gone; now his voice was thin and sharp as a whip. "Your friend, I know, yet a fool nonetheless … and doomed, unless you save him. Today was a near thing. They had hoped to kill him during the melee." Anyway, trying to keep this short -- King Robert goes hunting. He gets gouged by a boar. Robert tells Eddard, “My own fault. Too much wine, damn me to hell. Missed my thrust.” Speculation is that if the boar didn’t gut King Bob some other accident would have happened. Later in the story Lancel admits to Jaime that Cersei had tasked Lancel with getting Robert good and drunk. By the time that Eddard confronts Cersei, King Robert is already dying. Eddard thinks he has the upper hand. In truth Cersei had nothing to fear. She tells Eddard, ”When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die.” Cersei was way ahead of Eddard in the playing of the game of thrones. She knows Eddard was planning to send his daughters back to WF. Renly flees KL, Cersei rips up King Robert’s deathbed wishes (Pycelle was a witness), LF betrays Eddard and Eddard is named a traitor. She had no need to quibble about the looks of Eddard’s children. She did zing him with a remark about his bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Suburbs Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 On 11/18/2017 at 1:22 PM, Angel Eyes said: Why didn't Cersei bring up the fact that all but one of Ned's children look like his wife? She'd make Ned look like the pot calling the kettle black... This was also a way for readers to see through the story that Cersei and/or Jaime killed Jon Arryn: Why would she kill one hand who was on the verge of accusing her of incest when the only "proof" he had was some words in a musty old book, but then the second hand confronts her with the exact same evidence and she not only doesn't kill him but admits it freely? Now, instead of just looks -- which, as you said, she could easily have deflected by pointing out Ned's own Tullyish children -- she has to deny the word of the most honorable lord in the kingdom who also happens to be best friends with the king. Maybe she had advanced word that Robert was injured in the hunt, but she can in no way be certain he is going to die or that he will do so before Ned tells him the truth. So all in all, it was a completely unnecessary gamble for Cersei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted November 20, 2017 Author Share Posted November 20, 2017 10 minutes ago, John Suburbs said: This was also a way for readers to see through the story that Cersei and/or Jaime killed Jon Arryn: Why would she kill one hand who was on the verge of accusing her of incest when the only "proof" he had was some words in a musty old book, but then the second hand confronts her with the exact same evidence and she not only doesn't kill him but admits it freely? Now, instead of just looks -- which, as you said, she could easily have deflected by pointing out Ned's own Tullyish children -- she has to deny the word of the most honorable lord in the kingdom who also happens to be best friends with the king. Maybe she had advanced word that Robert was injured in the hunt, but she can in no way be certain he is going to die or that he will do so before Ned tells him the truth. So all in all, it was a completely unnecessary gamble for Cersei. I’d think she’d do it just to spite Ned. Along that line, it would be in-character for Cersei to do something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevets Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 On 11/18/2017 at 11:22 AM, Angel Eyes said: Why didn't Cersei bring up the fact that all but one of Ned's children look like his wife? She'd make Ned look like the pot calling the kettle black... Because she had no reason to do so. Ned simply stated, point-blank, that he knew her secret. He said nothing about how he figured it out. Going off family appearance isn't the only way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted November 20, 2017 Author Share Posted November 20, 2017 1 minute ago, Nevets said: Because she had no reason to do so. Ned simply stated, point-blank, that he knew her secret. He said nothing about how he figured it out. Going off family appearance isn't the only way. Remind me what else besides appearance led to Ned’s revelation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevets Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 33 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said: Remind me what else besides appearance led to Ned’s revelation. Oh, appearance led to Ned's revelation, but Cersei has no way of knowing that. For all she knows, someone tipped him off. In fact, I suspect that that is how Stannis or Jon Arryn found out in the first place, and it was that investigation combined with the appearance that led to Ned's conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clegane'sPup Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 2 hours ago, Angel Eyes said: Remind me what else besides appearance led to Ned’s revelation. I would suggest you read the GoT Eddard chapters. Your favorite author decided that Eddard follow a trail that led to a conclusion that for some unknown reason Robert's bastards have black hair. Soooooooooo, might you share your opinion as to why you, other than boredom, question your favorite author text? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traverys Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 On 11/18/2017 at 2:06 PM, Faera said: As for why Cersei didn't even think to turn it around on Ned, I think a lot of it came down to her being genuinely pleased all her children are hers and Jaime's. I would agree with this. It's another interesting layer of Cersei. That, as someone below this post mentions, she doesn't' even think of her children as bastards. It's a bit ironic since she's (at least allegedly) done/tried to do some terrible things to Robert's bastards. It'd be interesting to speculate why she would be motivated to kill the King's Landing bastards (e.g., Gendry). Is it because she wants one last revenge on Robert or because she thinks they're legitimate threats to her children's succession? Or both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted November 21, 2017 Author Share Posted November 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Clegane'sPup said: I would suggest you read the GoT Eddard chapters. Your favorite author decided that Eddard follow a trail that led to a conclusion that for some unknown reason Robert's bastards have black hair. Soooooooooo, might you share your opinion as to why you, other than boredom, question your favorite author text? First of all, he’s not a favorite. Second, it was pure bloody speculation, which I didn’t ask because I was bored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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