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AlaskanSandman

Dragonstone mysteries

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So i've always had this nagging question about Dragonstone Island, and the Castle it self.

First off, why did no one take Dragonstone prior to the Targaryens? The Island would make a perfect launching point for the Iron born who could then launch against the Western coast and Essos with Ease. Increasing their trade/take network. The Ironborn are also already used to bleak islands so should be no issue there. 

Quote

A weathered little inn sat on the end of the stone pier...out front squatted a waist-high gargoyle, so eroded by rain and salt that his features were all but obliterated. - A Clash of Kings - Davos 

This is interesting as the Gargoyles on Dragonstone dont break or erode that we're aware of. The only other Gargoyles described in this condition are the ones on the Old Keep of Winterfell. Which are like 8000 years old supposedly. So assuming erosion works at roughly the same pace, this seems to suggest activity on Dragonstone prior to the Valyrians. 

 

Aside from this oddity. There is another odd feature of Dragonstone to do with the castle. Built by Valyrians, not Targaryens, has a sept. Why? Valyrians supposedly excepted all religions, and we're not told about their own (just that balerion is a name of one of their gods.). So what gives with this? Aegon was also said to have visited Old Town way before his invasion and supposedly went to his own sept on Dragonstone before invading. Could it be that the Targaryens worshiped the Faith of the Seven? Or a modified version of it? Perhaps like the Church of Starry Wisdom?

 

Thoughts on either of these Dragonstone subjects beyond "No one was interested in Dragonstone cause it was bleak or unknown". That's an easy conclusion, but id rather hypothesize that there is another reason. 

Edited by AlaskanSandman

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Also if there are any other mysteries about the Island or Castle i would love to discuss

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I have a tall hat tin foil idea that there are stonemen/greyscale under Casterly Rock acquired when the Casterlys went to the Rhoynar to learn about how to manage their new gold discovery. The Rhoynar gave them stonemen to keep the Valyrians from gaining the gold and I suspect that the Rhoynar had stonemen long before Garin’s curse due to the Valyrians going fire and blood on everyone else, yet they tread careful until the last with the Rhoynar. 

We have grey death appearing recently in Oldtown. Shireen mysteriously acquired the greyscale and Dragonstone has the climate for it. Casterly Rock, Oldtown and Dragonstone and the Rhoynar all seem to be places avoided by the Valyrians but not the Targs. It would have interesting implications for waking the dragons from stone.

The Oldtown theory and the Casterly Rock theory as to why the Valyrians stayed away from Westeros might both be true to whatever extent. I'm especially intrigued by Pycelle connecting Quenton Hightower to Tywin especially if there's greyscale and stonemen under Casterly Rock.

 

ASOS Jaime VI

Around him stood a dozen tall dark figures in cowled robes that hid their faces. In their hands were spears. "Who are you?" he demanded of them. "What business do you have in Casterly Rock?"

They gave no answer, only prodded him with the points of their spears. He had no choice but to descend. Down a twisting passageway he went, narrow steps carved from the living rock, down and down. I must go up, he told himself. Up, not down. Why am I going down? Below the earth his doom awaited, he knew with the certainty of dream; something dark and terrible lurked there, something that wanted him. Jaime tried to halt, but their spears prodded him on. If only I had my sword, nothing could harm me.

The steps ended abruptly on echoing darkness. Jaime had the sense of vast space before him. He jerked to a halt, teetering on the edge of nothingness. A spearpoint jabbed at the small of the back, shoving him into the abyss. He shouted, but the fall was short. He landed on his hands and knees, upon soft sand and shallow water. There were watery caverns deep below Casterly Rock, but this one was strange to him. "What place is this?"

"Your place." The voice echoed; it was a hundred voices, a thousand, the voices of all the Lannisters since Lann the Clever, who'd lived at the dawn of days. But most of all it was his father's voice, and beside Lord Tywin stood his sister, pale and beautiful, a torch burning in her hand. Joffrey was there as well, the son they'd made together, and behind them a dozen more dark shapes with golden hair.

"Sister, why has Father brought us here?"

"Us? This is your place, Brother. This is your darkness." Her torch was the only light in the cavern. Her torch was the only light in the world. She turned to go.

"Stay with me," Jaime pleaded. "Don't leave me here alone." But they were leaving. "Don't leave me in the dark!" Something terrible lived down here. "Give me a sword, at least."

"I gave you a sword," Lord Tywin said.

It was at his feet. Jaime groped under the water until his hand closed upon the hilt. Nothing can hurt me so long as I have a sword. As he raised the sword a finger of pale flame flickered at the point and crept up along the edge, stopping a hand's breath from the hilt. The fire took on the color of the steel itself so it burned with a silvery-blue light, and the gloom pulled back. Crouching, listening, Jaime moved in a circle, ready for anything that might come out of the darkness. The water flowed into his boots, ankle deep and bitterly cold. Beware the water, he told himself. There may be creatures living in it, hidden deeps . . .

 

 

TWOIAF

The great wealth of the westerlands, of course, stems primarily from their gold and silver mines. The veins of ore run wide and deep, and there are mines, even now, that have been delved for a thousand years and more and are yet to be emptied. Lomas Longstrider reports that, even in far Asshai-by-the-Shadow, there were merchants who asked him if it was true that the "Lion Lord" lived in a palace of solid gold and that crofters collected a wealth of gold simply by plowing their fields. The gold of the west has traveled far, and the maesters know there are no mines in all the world as rich as those of Casterly Rock.

The wealth of the westerlands was matched, in ancient times, with the hunger of the Freehold of Valyria for precious metals, yet there seems no evidence that the dragonlords ever made contact with the lords of the Rock, Casterly or Lannister. Septon Barth speculated on the matter, referring to a Valyrian text that has since been lost, suggesting that the Freehold's sorcerers foretold that the gold of Casterly Rock would destroy them. Archmaester Perestan has put forward a different, more plausible speculation, suggesting that the Valyrians had in ancient days reached as far as Oldtown but suffered some great reverse or tragedy there that caused them to shun all of Westeros thereafter.

 

AFFC Jaime I

Without his beard, Pycelle looked not only old, but feeble. Shaving him was the cruelest thing Tyrion could have done, thought Jaime, who knew what it was to lose a part of yourself, the part that made you who you were. Pycelle's beard had been magnificent, white as snow and soft as lambswool, a luxuriant growth that covered cheeks and chin and flowed down almost to his belt. The Grand Maester had been wont to stroke it when he pontificated. It had given him an air of wisdom, and concealed all manner of unsavory things: the loose skin dangling beneath the old man's jaw, the small querulous mouth and missing teeth, warts and wrinkles and age spots too numerous to count. Though Pycelle was trying to regrow what he had lost, he was failing. Only wisps and tufts sprouted from his wrinkled cheeks and weak chin, so thin that Jaime could see the splotchy pink skin beneath.

"Ser Jaime, I have seen terrible things in my time," the old man said. "Wars, battles, murders most foul . . . I was a boy in Oldtown when the grey plague took half the city and three-quarters of the Citadel. Lord Hightower burned every ship in port, closed the gates, and commanded his guards to slay all those who tried to flee, be they men, women, or babes in arms. They killed him when the plague had run its course. On the very day he reopened the port, they dragged him from his horse and slit his throat, and his young son's as well. To this day the ignorant in Oldtown will spit at the sound of his name, but Quenton Hightower did what was needed. Your father was that sort of man as well. A man who did what was needed."

 

Edited by Lollygag

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22 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

sic

Hmmm. This is interesting. Not sure how it relates to Dragonstone but consider this.

 

Quote

 

The World of Ice and Fire - Ancient History: The Long Night

Archmaester Fomas's Lies of the Ancients—though little regarded these days for its erroneous claims regarding the founding of Valyria and certain lineal claims in the Reach and westerlands—

The World of Ice and Fire - The Reach: The Gardener Kings

In those centuries of trial and tumult, the Reach produced many a fearless warrior. From that day to this, the singers have celebrated the deeds of knights like Serwyn of the Mirror Shield, Davos the Dragonslayer, Roland of the Horn, and the Knight Without Armor—and the legendary kings who led them, among them Garth V (Hammer of the Dornish), Gwayne I (the Gallant), Gyles I (the Woe), Gareth II (the Grim), Garth VI (the Morningstar), and Gordan I (Grey-Eyes).

The World of Ice and Fire - Ancient History: The Age of Heroes

 But when the singers number Serwyn of the Mirror Shield as one of the Kingsguard—an institution that was only formed during the reign of Aegon the Conqueror—we can see why it is that few of these tales can ever be trusted. The septons who first wrote them down took what details suited them and added others, and the singers changed them—sometimes beyond all recognition—for the sake of a warm place in some lord's hall. In such a way does some longdead First Man become a knight who follows the Seven and guards the Targaryen kings thousands of years after he lived (if he ever did). The legion of boys and youths made ignorant of the past history of Westeros by these foolish tales cannot be numbered.

 

 
 
So what then would your thoughts be, given a tie between Valyria, Lannisters, and Gardeners. 
 
Quote

yet there seems no evidence that the dragonlords ever made contact with the lords of the Rock, Casterly or Lannister.

I would beg to differ on that point.

Quote

Septon Barth speculated on the matter, referring to a Valyrian text that has since been lost, suggesting that the Freehold's sorcerers foretold that the gold of Casterly Rock would destroy them. Archmaester Perestan has put forward a different, more plausible speculation, suggesting that the Valyrians had in ancient days reached as far as Oldtown but suffered some great reverse or tragedy there that caused them to shun all of Westeros thereafter.

 These two points are of particular interest to me given my other theories iv'e posted. 

The Gold of the Lannisters destroying Valyria- Of which we know the Faceless men and Braavos are also tied to.

This last one is most important to me, as this is the event tied to my over all theory. Some thing in the Ancient past caused Valyria to avoid Westeros supposedly, yet, there seems to be some unspoken activity on Dragonstone prior to the Valyrians building Dragonstone Castle (assuming the castle is as new as is claimed). Also, they avoid it all those thousands of years, then suddenly 400 years ago they arrive on Dragonstone, yet never invade till Aegon's random act. Yet we're also told this.

1000 years before the Doom, 4 Glass Candles were brought to Old Town... Which would be 1400 years ago...

So again, the Maesters are clearly hiding things. 

What is up with Dragonstone and Valyria?

And what is up with that weird Sept of Dragonstone???

Edited by AlaskanSandman

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Around 1400 years ago, House Manderly was being banished from the Reach and The Sept of OldTown was built and the Faith had taken OldTown. 

Which the timing of the Andals taking Old Town and Old Town getting Glass Candles from Valyria seems to suggest further links.

Edited by AlaskanSandman

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For lack of any other reason, I think it was just too far from the Ironborn's home base.

I have always posited the Valyrians were originally Westerosi and came from Northern Westeros post Long Night.  Why they would go east I don't know, though I can guess, but that the architecture of the Old Keep and Dragonstone was similar could be explained by Dragonstone being their first home in their migration before they finally left for Essos and settled in Valyria. And over the centuries they returned sometimes with their dragons and added to the architecture? Maybe there's something in the text that subverts this idea?

Edited by Lady Barbrey

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19 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Around 1400 years ago, House Manderly was being banished from the Reach and The Sept of OldTown was built and the Faith had taken OldTown. 

Which the timing of the Andals taking Old Town and Old Town getting Glass Candles from Valyria seems to suggest further links.

Some things I noticed earlier about the Manderlys. They were a first men family which converted to the seven, but the sacrifices which continue in White Harbor and Frey pies suggest that it was perhaps a very imperfect conversion.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/148905-is-craster-a-casterly-now-with-plot-relevance/&do=findComment&comment=8058299

 

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4 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

Some things I noticed earlier about the Manderlys. They were a first men family which converted to the seven, but the sacrifices which continue in White Harbor and Frey pies suggest that it was perhaps a very imperfect conversion.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/148905-is-craster-a-casterly-now-with-plot-relevance/&do=findComment&comment=8058299

Yes, thats pretty well known. 

What i find more interesting is their tie to the Reach (Manderly=Mander), their seeming belief and ties to the Merling King (Their sigil even), and their association to the Oder of the GreenHand.

As far as the Faith of the Seven and them, along with the Old Gods. There is no likely separation for house Manderly. They are one and the same. There is a reason all 3 of these things are found among House Manderly. Who is likely tied to the family of House Gardener, who are tied to Valyria. Who have a sept on Dragonstone. 

Given what we know about the world of Planetos. Who are the seven? This shouldn't really be a hard answer. Its the CotF. 

The Seven came forth and gave Hugor a blue eyed bride and they had 44 sons? 44=Ironborn.

44 Iron Islands and 44 Nagga's ribs. 31 islands in main group with 13 (Night's King) in the Farwyn grouping. With 7 (Can't get anymore on the nose than that) Islands being the Largest. With the Grey King living for 100(7) years. 

garths-children-and-their-war-of-love/

That should give you an idea of where im coming from. 

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Dragonstone was already a Valyrian outpost before the Targaryens made it their home.  Aenar Targaryen bought the island from its previous owners after his daughter foretold the coming doom.  The castle was already there but that's not saying the Targaryens didn't build additions. 

The ironborn could not take the island because it was a Valyrian outpost.  Nobody wanted to mess with the Dragonlords. 

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55 minutes ago, Lady Barbrey said:

For lack of any other reason, I think it was just too far from the Ironborn's home base.

I have always posited the Valyrians were originally Westerosi and came from Northern Westeros post Long Night.  Why they would go east I don't know, though I can guess, but that the architecture of the Old Keep and Dragonstone was similar could be explained by Dragonstone being their first home in their migration before they finally left for Essos and settled in Valyria. And over the centuries they returned sometimes with their dragons and added to the architecture? Maybe there's something in the text that subverts this idea?

You should check out my thread too.

garths-children-and-their-war-of-love/

In a nut shell, yes,  i think the Valyrians came from Westeros from the children of Garth. Which brother it was that hooked up with Nissa Nissa, idk. More than likely both brothers had red eyes. Nissa Nissa had blue eyes (Corpse Queen and Hugor's bride, and Amethyst Empress). So either or would get the desired purple eyes. It's the hair colors im still working out.

The basic narrative starts with Garths children who war for their sister. We're told these tales in sections and by differing cultures that muddy the picture.

First there is Garth the First High King or Rock and Salt. Who dies and a curse is placed on his barrow. Then.

1. Uthor vs Argoth Stone Skin (Balon Blackskin comes to mind of the Iron Born) for Maris during first Tourney of Westeros, with Uthor stealing her and Argoth raging outside the walls till the end of his days.. Who pops up too? Brandon the Builder building the Hightower. Next? A wedding. Note also, Others raging outside the Wall.

2. Durran weds Elenai, and all their guest are killed on their wedding night. The retaliation has begun. Who pops up too? Brandon the Builder building Storm's End.

3. Next we get Azor Ahai tale and The last Hero. Linking House Dayne more than likely through Dawn. Nissa Nissa is sacrificed to end the war, and possibly make a sword. Or birth dragons. No apparent link to Brandon except that the last Hero's story ends with him finding the CotF and gaining their aid. 

4 Brandon the Builder then pops up building the wall and winterfell and founding the watch. The war for the Dawn is fought and won. But then a weird side tale that seems out of place in the dating. Yet not.

5. The Night's King. Rumored to be a Brandon Stark of Winterfell. Finds his dead bride returned alive. She needs him to reproduce as the Other other brother was killed during the war. The Salt King brother that tried to become King of Rock and Salt like his father, and thus activated the curse. He turned Nissa Nissa after her death. Yet, he's dead now, and she can't reproduce. They are brought down by Brandon the Breaker, but we're not sure which survived if either of them did.

 

Edited by AlaskanSandman

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43 minutes ago, Lady Barbrey said:

The sept is interesting.  Built for or by the servants?  I dunno.

Exactly. It's completely out of place given what we're told. I think we're not being told something.

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10 minutes ago, Wolf's Bane said:

Dragonstone was already a Valyrian outpost before the Targaryens made it their home.  Aenar Targaryen bought the island from its previous owners after his daughter foretold the coming doom.  The castle was already there but that's not saying the Targaryens didn't build additions. 

The ironborn could not take the island because it was a Valyrian outpost.  Nobody wanted to mess with the Dragonlords. 

Given that Aegon and them didn't seem to build anything else. (K.L. is no wheres near the architecture of Dragonstone), i would wager the Targaryen's couldn't. Either they didn't know how, or they didn't have the right dragons. I imagine war dragons are not to good for building things.

And Valyria are said to have only taken it 400 years ago, that doesnt account for about 9500 years....

Edited by AlaskanSandman

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10 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Exactly. It's completely out of place given what we're told. I think we're not being told something.

It's of a piece though with the Hugor Hill story and all those numbers.  I can't remember the details but remember reading theories about it.  Also, when reading WOIAF, how often the Seven showed up where they had no business being.

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1 hour ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Hmmm. This is interesting. Not sure how it relates to Dragonstone but consider this.

 

 
 
So what then would your thoughts be, given a tie between Valyria, Lannisters, and Gardeners. 
 

I would beg to differ on that point.

 These two points are of particular interest to me given my other theories iv'e posted. 

The Gold of the Lannisters destroying Valyria- Of which we know the Faceless men and Braavos are also tied to.

This last one is most important to me, as this is the event tied to my over all theory. Some thing in the Ancient past caused Valyria to avoid Westeros supposedly, yet, there seems to be some unspoken activity on Dragonstone prior to the Valyrians building Dragonstone Castle (assuming the castle is as new as is claimed). Also, they avoid it all those thousands of years, then suddenly 400 years ago they arrive on Dragonstone, yet never invade till Aegon's random act. Yet we're also told this.

1000 years before the Doom, 4 Glass Candles were brought to Old Town... Which would be 1400 years ago...

So again, the Maesters are clearly hiding things. 

What is up with Dragonstone and Valyria?

And what is up with that weird Sept of Dragonstone???

Forum ate my post. Not nice for slow thinkers like me. Grrrr.

Haven't thought about the relevance to Dragonstone so no answer. Just connecting things. It's greyscale friendly, weird stone statues, waking dragons from stone, Shireen has greyscale. The Targs were at odds with Valyria at the end.

Valyria, Lannisters and Gardeners: I went into some of this on page 2 of the Craster is a Casterly thread. Thing that stands out is Valyria, the old version of Garth and the Lannisters (according to my theory anyhow) are tied to sacrifice. Jaime's dream also seems to be about Jaime being a sacrifice. And yeah, the histories are better seen as clues.

I'd look into iron, too. Rhoynar invented Iron working. Braavos is another place which remained Valyria-free and is greyscale-friendly.

The wiki says the sept was built by the Targs which makes sense to me if they were planning on staying in Westeros. Maybe I'm not following?

The sept: The sept of Dragonstone, dedicated to the Faith of the Seven, contains statues representing the seven aspects of the Seven gods, carved from the masts of the ships that had carried the first Targaryens from Valyria, but have frequently been repainted since then.[5] The statue of the Crone has pearl eyes, the Father a gilded beard, and the Stranger looks more animal than human. [5]

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Lady Barbrey said:

It's of a piece though with the Hugor Hill story and all those numbers.  I can't remember the details but remember reading theories about it.  Also, when reading WOIAF, how often the Seven showed up where they had no business being.

Hmm.

I link Hugor to the Long Night and Others, which would predate what we're told about Dragonstone Castle. Though, i link Hugor to the Bloodstone Emperor also. Which means that the Church of Starry Wisdom and the Faith of the Seven both come from the same guy but went through a schism in doctrine. 

Valyrian building a sept on Dragonstone, despite no known association to the Faith prior to Aegon's coronation, can only be linked in my mind some how to this schism and those faiths having a deeper tie to Valyria it self and Westeros.

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33 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Yes, thats pretty well known. 

Ha! Not for me. I'm mostly interested in the characters in the books proper. I'm only delving into the histories and magics for the first time because of my tin foil idea's possible relevance to Jaime, Cersei and Tyrion.

34 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

What i find more interesting is their tie to the Reach (Manderly=Mander), their seeming belief and ties to the Merling King (Their sigil even), and their association to the Oder of the GreenHand.

As far as the Faith of the Seven and them, along with the Old Gods. There is no likely separation for house Manderly. They are one and the same. There is a reason all 3 of these things are found among House Manderly. Who is likely tied to the family of House Gardener, who are tied to Valyria. Who have a sept on Dragonstone. 

Given what we know about the world of Planetos. Who are the seven? This shouldn't really be a hard answer. Its the CotF. 

The Seven came forth and gave Hugor a blue eyed bride and they had 44 sons? 44=Ironborn.

44 Iron Islands and 44 Nagga's ribs. 31 islands in main group with 13 (Night's King) in the Farwyn grouping. With 7 (Can't get anymore on the nose than that) Islands being the Largest. With the Grey King living for 100(7) years. 

garths-children-and-their-war-of-love/

That should give you an idea of where im coming from. 

You've completely lost me for the reason I stated above but I'll give it a shot :)

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3 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

Forum ate my post. Not nice for slow thinkers like me. Grrrr.

Haven't thought about the relevance to Dragonstone so no answer. Just connecting things. It's greyscale friendly, weird stone statues, waking dragons from stone, Shireen has greyscale. The Targs were at odds with Valyria at the end.

Valyria, Lannisters and Gardeners: I went into some of this on page 2 of the Craster is a Casterly thread. Thing that stands out is Valyria, the old version of Garth and the Lannisters (according to my theory anyhow) are tied to sacrifice. Jaime's dream also seems to be about Jaime being a sacrifice. And yeah, the histories are better seen as clues.

I'd look into iron, too. Rhoynar invented Iron working. Braavos is another place which remained Valyria-free and is greyscale-friendly.

The wiki says the sept was built by the Targs which makes sense to me if they were planning on staying in Westeros. Maybe I'm not following?

The sept: The sept of Dragonstone, dedicated to the Faith of the Seven, contains statues representing the seven aspects of the Seven gods, carved from the masts of the ships that had carried the first Targaryens from Valyria, but have frequently been repainted since then.[5] The statue of the Crone has pearl eyes, the Father a gilded beard, and the Stranger looks more animal than human. [5]

 

Those are just the statues. Notice how they didn't make ones like the Gargoyles? They lack the ability. Thus they just used the mast heads of their ships. Which, you have to think were already some carved thing, as were most old ships. So could these statues/mast already have been the seven?? Which would explain why it never said they recarved them, or carved them. Just that they've been repainted.

And your mention was interesting and did mention Dragonstone in passing haha i was just curious if there was a deeper connection to Dragonstone that you were trying to get at. :) 

I have to read more about the Crastor theory.

And Grey scale is something im looking at. Just dont have my own thoughts yet, and i dont like just going off other theories just cause they're there. I have to actually take time to put thought into things to see if pieces fit or not, or just what else i can find. As people all tend to notice different things. 

Though i have a sneeky suspicion that 1400 years ago something very important was happening that i just can't put my thumb on yet.

*House Manderly booted North

* Andals take OldTown and Hightowers with Sept built.

* 4 Glass Candles brought to Old Town from Valyria right at that time too.

*war with Rhoynar soon followed within a hundred years or so.

Now Andals and Glass Candles and Valyria and Oldtown all mixed up in one..... Again, i can't help but feel there is a deeper connection with Valyria and The Faith. Or Andals. Something is not quite adding up right about this time.

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6 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

Ha! Not for me. I'm mostly interested in the characters in the books proper. I'm only delving into the histories and magics for the first time because of my tin foil idea's possible relevance to Jaime, Cersei and Tyrion.

You've completely lost me for the reason I stated above but I'll give it a shot :)

Haha well, well met and welcome to the madness hahah :) You will find many in the forums at different levels of the rabbit hole haha and even those on for a while can still learn things they didn't notice :) 

Hahaha may be a bit much to delve into to start but your welcome to :) Twoiaf is a good place to start first and even looking at other peoples differing ideas. Im on my own path with most of this but not all as interpretation of that book and what we're being told in all the books greatly effects all our views. I am of the opinion that almost everything the maesters say is not true. Either through ignorance or lying, they are not to be trusted. So i look more to the ancient songs and legends and then realign all the details based on what i think the clues are telling me. Like time details, or that i think most of the ancient tales are tied and telling the same story. Just through different cultures which muddies the picture. 

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43 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Given that Aegon and them didn't seem to build anything else. (K.L. is no wheres near the architecture of Dragonstone), i would wager the Targaryen's couldn't. Either they didn't know how, or they didn't have the right dragons. I imagine war dragons are not to good for building things.

I think I said Valyrians not Targaryans, Wolfsbane?.  The Old Keep of Winterfell and Dragonstone have the only gargoyles of their type anywhere.  Archeologically, this proves a connection in architectural style and therefore time and likely the same people.  The Old Keep was presumably built shortly after the Long Night, about the same time as the Wall, but also it seems from the gargoyles, about the same time as Dragonstone give or take a few generations. Therefore, at least in an original incarnation with gargoyles, Dragonstone seems to have been populated by people from Northern Westeros because they brought their architecture style with them.  

Migrations tend to be slow.  These people could have lived for generations on Dragonstone before travelling on to Essos, adding on to the original building in the meantime.  If they already had dragons, which I don't know, the dragon-forged spaces could have been constructed then, or later after these people became the Valyrians, tamed dragons, but made frequent visits  back to their 'homeland', now an outpost, Dragonstone. Over the course of thousands of years, Dragonstone became the castle we see today in the books.

I'd expect the Targs just couldn't be bothered, Alaskansandman. They only had three dragons, the dragon spaces were already constructed, and the Targs didn't stay on Dragonstone that long relatively speaking.

I'm Very interested in your connections between Bran the Builder, places and weddings of all things. I know you've got a timeline, but could it be there was one original story all these others are based upon?  

Edited by Lady Barbrey

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