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NBA 2017 - 18: A Shot at Parity


Relic

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1 hour ago, BigFatCoward said:

Like Durrant!  Working hard at one end doesn't preclude doing the same at the other.

Preclude, not exactly, though of course energy isn’t infinite. But either way, we have many metrics now which can be used to measure overall impact regardless of composition, and Harden is (again) killing it pretty much across the board. And generating very little noise in the process. Yesterday’s game was like the 3rd highest GS ever recorded, and compared with the games around it (Kobe’s 81, MJ’s 69/18/6 etc.) has gone virtually unnoticed. If Lebron or Westbrook or Curry went 60-10-11-4 (on 30 shots, too, including gw) it would be...well, much much bigger news. 

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1 hour ago, BigFatCoward said:

Like Durrant!  Working hard at one end doesn't preclude doing the same at the other.

Curry has two MVPs as opposed to Durant's one MVP. The point I was trying to make though was that if Curry's level of defense is acceptable to voters why shouldn't Harden's be as well?

Besides, the MVP is a popularity contest. Flash is more important than substance. Generating highlights and stuffing the box score is the way to go. Defensive highlights and box scores are hard to come by, especially at his position.

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Harden doesn’t get the same love as other top NBA superstars because is game is so unaesthetically pleasing (drawing cheap fouls, flopping and no defense for example). However, I think it’s safe to say that he’ll be the MVP this year.

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2 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Harden doesn’t get the same love as other top NBA superstars because is game is so unaesthetically pleasing (drawing cheap fouls, flopping and no defense for example). However, I think it’s safe to say that he’ll be the MVP this year.

I sometimes wonder if guarding him is more difficult just cause that beard is so gross.

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38 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Harden doesn’t get the same love as other top NBA superstars because is game is so unaesthetically pleasing (drawing cheap fouls, flopping and no defense for example). However, I think it’s safe to say that he’ll be the MVP this year.

I really think the ‘cheap fouls’ thing is way overrated and had been, I thought, kinda knocked on the head by his dominance post ‘Harden rule’, but I guess not. Aesthetics were, as mentioned, my main explanation, though to me his incredible IQ and stuff like developing that lethal step back 3 make him a joy to watch. Him and Paul together, in those brief glimpses, is like watching adults playing with children, they’re both so many steps ahead, mentally.

 

edit, kinda lost my place. I agree with you, though, in terms of why he’s so overlooked/unliked, and though I think he’ll probably get the MVP, I think as with any of the previous several, if anyone more ‘appealing’ comes close on paper, he’ll get 2nd place again. On ‘merit’, of course.

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20 hours ago, Maithanet said:

It's very disappointing.  I feel like it's been one step forward and one step back for this team since 2014.  Hopefully Wall can get back to being himself.  I think that they'll make the playoffs, just because the competition for the last couple of spots doesn't scare me.  Once they're in the playoffs, who knows, but my expectations are not high. 

Agreed, even with the East looking wide open. Nice win last night at least.

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

Harden doesn’t get the same love as other top NBA superstars because is game is so unaesthetically pleasing (drawing cheap fouls, flopping and no defense for example). However, I think it’s safe to say that he’ll be the MVP this year.

Probably. At one point looked like it would clearly be Lebron but both he and the Cavs have died. Giannis is still a contender but the Bucks probably won't win enough games for serious contention.

3 hours ago, James Arryn said:

If Lebron or Westbrook or Curry went 60-10-11-4 (on 30 shots, too, including gw) it would be...well, much much bigger news. 

His efficiency sometimes is mind-boggling. He took 30 shots and averaged 2 points per attempt. If you take out his 3 pointers, he averaged 3 points per attempt. It's nuts. 

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7 hours ago, Proudfeet said:

Curry has two MVPs as opposed to Durant's one MVP. The point I was trying to make though was that if Curry's level of defense is acceptable to voters why shouldn't Harden's be as well?

Besides, the MVP is a popularity contest. Flash is more important than substance. Generating highlights and stuffing the box score is the way to go. Defensive highlights and box scores are hard to come by, especially at his position.

Curry gives effort on defense.  He's just not very good at it.  Harden doesn't even remotely pretend to give a shit about defense.

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7 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

I sometimes wonder if guarding him is more difficult just cause that beard is so gross.

He's the reverse Elfrid Payton.

6 hours ago, James Arryn said:

I really think the ‘cheap fouls’ thing is way overrated and had been, I thought, kinda knocked on the head by his dominance post ‘Harden rule’, but I guess not. Aesthetics were, as mentioned, my main explanation, though to me his incredible IQ and stuff like developing that lethal step back 3 make him a joy to watch. Him and Paul together, in those brief glimpses, is like watching adults playing with children, they’re both so many steps ahead, mentally.

It may be overrated now, but the old narrative is baked in. I watched one game where he must have flopped one way or the other 25 times. I had to turn the game off.

Quote

edit, kinda lost my place. I agree with you, though, in terms of why he’s so overlooked/unliked, and though I think he’ll probably get the MVP, I think as with any of the previous several, if anyone more ‘appealing’ comes close on paper, he’ll get 2nd place again. On ‘merit’, of course.

Harden will get it. I don't see how anyone can leapfrog him at thus point. Curry and KD cancel each other out. LeBron isn't winning it this year with the way the Cavs are melting down. Russ now has teammates so his stats aren't insane. Giannis is really the only guy who I could see taking it from Harden, but the Bucks just aren't good enough as a team for that to happen.

6 hours ago, Jaime L said:

Agreed, even with the East looking wide open. Nice win last night at least.

Probably. At one point looked like it would clearly be Lebron but both he and the Cavs have died. Giannis is still a contender but the Bucks probably won't win enough games for serious contention.

His efficiency sometimes is mind-boggling. He took 30 shots and averaged 2 points per attempt. If you take out his 3 pointers, he averaged 3 points per attempt. It's nuts. 

:agree:

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Bulls trade Mirotic and a 2nd to Pelicans for a 1st, Omer Asik, Jameer Nelson, and Tony Allen. http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22287175/new-orleans-pelicans-acquire-nikola-mirotic-chicago-bulls

Woj is reporting that the 1 has "minimal protection", I heard on the radio that it's Top 5 protected. Also heard that Tony Allen will probably be waived. 

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1 hour ago, Trebla said:

Bulls trade Mirotic and a 2nd to Pelicans for a 1st, Omer Asik, Jameer Nelson, and Tony Allen. http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22287175/new-orleans-pelicans-acquire-nikola-mirotic-chicago-bulls

Woj is reporting that the 1 has "minimal protection", I heard on the radio that it's Top 5 protected. Also heard that Tony Allen will probably be waived. 

Hmmmmmmmm. Not sure what to think. On one hand you can make the case for the Pelicans just blowing up the roster, trading Davis for multiple assets, and rebuilding. On the other hand, they shed a shit contract, and got back a 3 point shooter who might be almost as good as his numbers this season imply he is. As for the Bulls...well...they be tankin, son.

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1 hour ago, Relic said:

Hmmmmmmmm. Not sure what to think. On one hand you can make the case for the Pelicans just blowing up the roster, trading Davis for multiple assets, and rebuilding. On the other hand, they shed a shit contract, and got back a 3 point shooter who might be almost as good as his numbers this season imply he is. As for the Bulls...well...they be tankin, son.

Mirotic is an enigma. He has played really well at times and he's played REALLY soft at other times. It's been said it took getting his jaw shattered for him to start playing hard. It will be interesting to see which Mirotic shows up in New Orleans.

As for the Bulls, it just about the pick. After the practice fight, everyone knew he wanted to be traded so it was thought the Bulls would be lucky to get half a ham sandwich for him. So to get a mid-1st (the likely spot) they have to count themselves fortunate. Now they have to get back to the business of tanking hard. 

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2 hours ago, Relic said:

Hmmmmmmmm. Not sure what to think. On one hand you can make the case for the Pelicans just blowing up the roster, trading Davis for multiple assets, and rebuilding. On the other hand, they shed a shit contract, and got back a 3 point shooter who might be almost as good as his numbers this season imply he is. As for the Bulls...well...they be tankin, son.

It's hard to trade a top 5ish guy in the league who still has three years left on his contract. You'd never even get a semblance of value for him.

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7 hours ago, Trebla said:

Bulls trade Mirotic and a 2nd to Pelicans for a 1st, Omer Asik, Jameer Nelson, and Tony Allen. http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22287175/new-orleans-pelicans-acquire-nikola-mirotic-chicago-bulls

Woj is reporting that the 1 has "minimal protection", I heard on the radio that it's Top 5 protected. Also heard that Tony Allen will probably be waived. 

Protected top 5 draft pick, and cap space cleared for the future. GarPax did something right for once.

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Every time I start to respect LeBron for doing something awesome, he pulls some stupid immature bullshit and I go back to rolling my eyes at his attitude. I'm just eating this season up. It's 100% petty sportsmanship on my part as a fan, but give me this moment, I just reveling in it! Tomorrow I'll remember that I'll probably never see the Bulls beat him in the playoffs. Sigh.

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5 hours ago, KingintheNorth4 said:

The Cavs are not a very good at this point. They don't have a lot options, unless they rid of the Nets pick. 

They need to pack it in and wrap it up. Crazy suggestion but maybe a leBron trade would be in their best interest at this point. Will never happen, but fun to think about. 

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I've been surprised how dead this thread has been this year given that the season has been more interesting that a lot of people expected.

Anyways, if you didn't already know, Kristaps Porzingis is out for the season with a torn ACL. I was pretty sure he tore something when I first saw the clip. Whenever athletes immediately grab for their knee while writhing in pain, I assume it's a tear and not a sprain. This isn't just a bad blow for the Knicks, but the league as a whole. Sorry Relic and Mex!

Meanwhile, the Thunder just beat the hell out of the Dubs again. I actually think they could take them in a seven game series.

Oh and the Cavs are a mess. I wonder if they'll try to trade IT before the deadline tomorrow.

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8 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I've been surprised how dead this thread has been this year given that the season has been more interesting that a lot of people expected.

My Magic are once again going for that #1 pick baby!  Although they've screwed the pooch the past week winning 3 of 4, including beating the Cavs by 20 last night.  Big game tomorrow against the Hawks.  Anyway, my attention has been looking at mock drafts, and lots of interesting guys at the top.  Bagley, Ayton, Doncic, Young, even Porter who's injured - all look very intriguing.  Looks like a pretty damn good class.

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