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NBA 2017 - 18: A Shot at Parity


Relic

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Golden State destroyed the Thunder last night, which kinda sucks, but this post game interview with Russ is solid solid gold. 

"Dont ask me no dumb questions man"

I'm starting to love this dude. 

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22572847/russell-westbrook-oklahoma-city-thunder-says-zaza-pachulia-intentionally-fell-leg-tried-hurt-me

 

Anyways, he's right, Zaza is fucking dirty. He should be kicked out of the league.

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9 hours ago, Relic said:

Here's the play in question. That's so fucking bush league. 

 

Piece of shit. There better be some activity in the league office. Or just suspend his intentionally-injuring ass for the playoffs before he takes out some other team's best player.

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ZaZa should be done for the season. It's absolutely inexcusable, and it's a huge threat to the business of the league. That goon taking people out costs the league millions of dollars.

 

It's just a terrible look. You would think a team full of stars wouldnt' be okay with a guy intentionally trying to injure fellow stars. That's a precedent you don't want to set.

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10 minutes ago, sperry said:

ZaZa should be done for the season. It's absolutely inexcusable, and it's a huge threat to the business of the league. That goon taking people out costs the league millions of dollars.

I'm always reminded of good ol' John Chaney when I hear goon lol.  The time he publicly admitted that he sent out his goon post-game against the St. Joe's was classic.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/news/story?id=1998200

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37 minutes ago, sperry said:

ZaZa should be done for the season. It's absolutely inexcusable, and it's a huge threat to the business of the league. That goon taking people out costs the league millions of dollars.

It's just a terrible look. You would think a team full of stars wouldnt' be okay with a guy intentionally trying to injure fellow stars. That's a precedent you don't want to set.

Well, he's not the only Warrior who tries to hurt people, and every time Green does it they just give him a slap on the wrist or ignore it.

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11 hours ago, Relic said:

Here's the play in question. That's so fucking bush league. 

 

Plays like this one are the reason I believe every single team sport should take the page out of hockey's book and "allow" players fighting. Honestly, I would LOVE to see Zaza get bitchslapped for this. Then, the next guy wouldn't even think about doing something like this.

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On February 24, 2018 at 2:45 AM, Proudfeet said:

That's not the issue here though is it? It's the perception that the ninth and tenth team in the West are more deserving than the seventh and eighth team in the East. Or how the second to fourth seeds in the West are better than the second seed in the East.

If you are going by history, how many of those titles were won by LeBron? How many were lost by him? He has contested every final since his move to Miami. And more often than not, swept his way there. That may be due to the strength of his teams, but is surely exacerbated by the lack of competitiveness in the East.

 

 

I don't quite get the intention of the play-in tournament. I guess there is incentive to be the sixth seed to avoid missing out and the seventh and eighth seeds to get two tries, but the gap in wins get so much more pronounced when you reach the ninth, tenth and eleventh teams that they are basically assured of a play-in spot even if they don't make the eighth seed. 

 

ETA

Actually historical strength shouldn't be an issue. So what if it balances out? Two wrongs doesn't make a right. Besides, if we really want to take in geographical/scheduling considerations, why not do playoffs by division and have wins be the tie breaker instead?

I heard this same misconceived talk the years the Pistons went to the finals. Every single pundit, writer and broadcaster spent the entire post season bloviating over how the West was going to destroy the East and the so-called experts didnt have a clue that the reason Indiana Vs Detroit series neither team would score more than 80 pts was because of absolute dominant shutdown defenses. They were so sure the super duper dream teams out West, that were scoring 120 pts a night, were going to have a cakewalk in the finals.

Yet they were all grossly wrong, the East ( on the court ) absolutelymanhandled the West in the finals because they were overwhelmed when they met a defense that could (regularly) hold teams to 15 points for an entire quarter.

I would not put money against seeing another Eastern Conference finals championship yet again this year.

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3 hours ago, briantw said:

Holy shit this one is great.

:lol: 

I got more out of it because I listened to Golic and Wingo this morning.  Golic JR went to the conference and talked about it.

Also, can I just reiterate how bitter I am that Evan Turner was named college player of the year over John Wall?  Completely ridiculous.  I remember Wilbon saying he should be the number one pick that year and “all the NBA guys I talk to say they can’t wait to see Evan Turner.” :rofl: 

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7 hours ago, Rhom said:

:lol: 

I got more out of it because I listened to Golic and Wingo this morning.  Golic JR went to the conference and talked about it.

Also, can I just reiterate how bitter I am that Evan Turner was named college player of the year over John Wall?  Completely ridiculous.  I remember Wilbon saying he should be the number one pick that year and “all the NBA guys I talk to say they can’t wait to see Evan Turner.” :rofl: 

Yeah, the Turner over Wall concept was madness.  Reminds me of when people were saying that Derrick Williams was a better prospect than Kyrie Irving.

Both Wall and Turner were terrible shooters coming into the league, but Wall was an absolutely elite athlete with great vision, whereas Turner was just a so-so athlete with decent to good vision.  Easy choice there.  I am just not a fan of guys at the two/three who can't shoot at all.  At least if your point guard isn't a great shooter you can offset that by surrounding him with great shooters at the two and three.

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38 minutes ago, briantw said:

Yeah, the Turner over Wall concept was madness.  Reminds me of when people were saying that Derrick Williams was a better prospect than Kyrie Irving.

Both Wall and Turner were terrible shooters coming into the league, but Wall was an absolutely elite athlete with great vision, whereas Turner was just a so-so athlete with decent to good vision.  Easy choice there.  I am just not a fan of guys at the two/three who can't shoot at all.  At least if your point guard isn't a great shooter you can offset that by surrounding him with great shooters at the two and three.

This I think gets to the Donovan Mitchell vs. Ben Simmons ROY debate. Who do you take? Mitchell has been amazing as a rookie. Probably should have been the #1 pick if we knew then what we know now. And a guy who can't shoot in the modern NBA is an enormous fucking liability. I'm also not sure Ben Simmons ever becomes a good shooter. He hasn't made a 3 pointer all season and his effective range is 10 feet at most. The guy is rawer as a shooter than even Giannis as a rookie. How can you build around a guy who can only score in the paint? 

And yet, pretty sure I take Simmons as ROY and definitely going forward. There's something about the guy. He is a fucking terrorist on the basketball court. As an opposing fan, dude is terrifying to watch. His size, athleticism and basketball IQ are Giannis/young Lebronish. He's also really good defensively. Pretty sure he's going to be one of those guys who can guard 1-5 effectively, if he is not already. He's good at everything...except shooting. But when I watch Philly, it doesn't feel like this complete lack of range suffocates his teammates. He just has all these other abilities from his handle to his passing to his speed that he's able to compensate. He's far from Andre Roberson out there. I don't know what the advanced stats say when he's out there (and I'm curious), but just anecdotally watching him, seems like he's an exception to the general spacing rules.

But honestly, who knows until we see how teams deal with him in the playoffs. I'm really curious to see. 

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8 minutes ago, Jaime L said:

This I think gets to the Donovan Mitchell vs. Ben Simmons ROY debate. Who do you take? Mitchell has been amazing as a rookie. Probably should have been the #1 pick if we knew then what we know now. And a guy who can't shoot in the modern NBA is an enormous fucking liability. I'm also not sure Ben Simmons ever becomes a good shooter. He hasn't made a 3 pointer all season and his effective range is 10 feet at most. The guy is rawer as a shooter than even Giannis as a rookie. How can you build around a guy who can only score in the paint? 

And yet, pretty sure I take Simmons as ROY and definitely going forward. There's something about the guy. He is a fucking terrorist on the basketball court. As an opposing fan, dude is terrifying to watch. His size, athleticism and basketball IQ are Giannis/young Lebronish. He's also really good defensively. Pretty sure he's going to be one of those guys who can guard 1-5 effectively, if he is not already. He's good at everything...except shooting. But when I watch Philly, it doesn't feel like this complete lack of range suffocates his teammates. He just has all these other abilities from his handle to his passing to his speed that he's able to compensate. He's far from Andre Roberson out there. I don't know what the advanced stats say when he's out there (and I'm curious), but just anecdotally watching him, seems like he's an exception to the general spacing rules.

But honestly, who knows until we see how teams deal with him in the playoffs. I'm really curious to see. 

And the funny thing is... Rick Pitino told anyone who would listen that Mitchell should return to UofL and run the point this year.  Good thing Mitchell didn't listen!

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Sigh, Minnesota sports fans just aren't allowed to have nice things. We were all but a lock to make the playoffs before Butler went down, but there's no time table for his return and the difference in the standings between the fourth seed, which the Wolves currently hold, and the tenth seed is really only a handful of games. I could easily see us choking the rest of the season out. The only real upside, if there is any at all, is maybe his increased role will finally help Wiggins figure out whatever's been plaguing him this season. Hopefully KAT can me a step forward too. And for the love of god, like I've been saying all year, get Jeff Teague off of this team. A point guard who never passes to better players around him is a truly terrible PG. There are times in which he will take a shot right away on several consecutive possessions without ever looking to pass, and others where he'll dribble the ball forever then give the ball to someone else who is out of position with only a few seconds left on the clock. It's infuriating! 

Also, I need to talk about the elephant in the room: Thibs. I respect that he is a great defensive mind, or at least was, but the game has passed him by and he's too stubborn to admit it and learn the modern style of NBA basketball. He was the defensive coach on arguably the best defensive team in the modern history of the NBA, the 08' Celtics, but the style of defense that he coaches simply does not work anymore. He prefers to pack the paint and leave the wings somewhat open. This worked just fine in years past, but the Golden State revolution has destroyed it because it is god awful against teams that want to space it out and shoot the ball, which is the trend these days in the NBA. Furthermore, his offense is ancient. It's pure ISO ball that does not attempt many threes. Everything is so predictable. Either Teague or Butler bring the ball up and create for themselves while occasionally running plays for KAT and WIggins. There's no ball movement, hell there's no movement at all. Dudes run down the court, find a space, and mostly stay there. A better coach would have this team flying all over the place and create chaos for defenders. There is no reason why one of the most athletic teams in the league should be so freaking static. 

And most importantly, the minutes. How did he not learn from his past mistakes? Last year, LaVine lead the league in minutes per game before he tore his ACL. This year Butler was always first or second in the league in MPG, and now he tore his MCL. WIggins and KAT are number 1 and 2 in the league for total minutes played, and I think Wiggins was number 1 last year while KAT was really high too. And all the reporting from both his days in Chicago and here indicate that his practices are grueling. Is it any wonder that the team blew so many 4th quarter leads last year? Everyone was clearly spent. I honestly wouldn't mind if they fired him at the end of this season or next, especially if another key player, especially KAT, goes down. 

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1 hour ago, Jaime L said:

This I think gets to the Donovan Mitchell vs. Ben Simmons ROY debate.

Seems easy to me:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/simmobe01.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mitchdo01.html

Simmons is all around better outside of shooting from range, and that's one of the things you can teach a young player. Just take Kawhi for example. One of the knocks on him coming out of college was he wasn't a good shooter, despite the fact that his numbers weren't bad. And the Spurs taught him how to be a lethal shooter. Just give it time. 

1 hour ago, DanteGabriel said:

No suspension or fine for Zaza. Fuck you, Warriors.

The dude's garbage play is going to get his star teammates hurt. If I was Steven Adams, for example, and saw that play, you better believe I'd be more inclined to clobber Curry and/or Durant later in the game. 

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1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

Also, I need to talk about the elephant in the room: Thibs. 

It's clear the guy eats, sleeps and breathes basketball so I don't get why he's seemingly so incapable of learning from what's not working. Both in terms of minutes and his defensive philosophy. T'Wolves are bottom 6 in defensive rating. And the injuries issue you mention. If he ever coached Embiid, I swear he'd kill him.

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

Simmons is all around better outside of shooting from range, and that's one of the things you can teach a young player. Just take Kawhi for example. 

Kawhi's probably the ultimate success story for turning a pure athlete into a knock down shooter. Of course he worked with the best shooting coach in the NBA. A lot of lottery guys who can't shoot never learn how (i.e.: MKG, Turner, Tyreke Evans, your beloved Rubio). And Ben Simmons has made all of 1 three pointer in his college and pro career combined thus far. I don't know, would feel like a small miracle if he's able to add this to his game at some point.

Maybe Markelle Fultz can work with him. 

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2 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Seems easy to me:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/simmobe01.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mitchdo01.html

Simmons is all around better outside of shooting from range, and that's one of the things you can teach a young player. Just take Kawhi for example. One of the knocks on him coming out of college was he wasn't a good shooter, despite the fact that his numbers weren't bad. And the Spurs taught him how to be a lethal shooter. Just give it time. 

The dude's garbage play is going to get his star teammates hurt. If I was Steven Adams, for example, and saw that play, you better believe I'd be more inclined to clobber Curry and/or Durant later in the game. 

It's definitely time for someone to put an elbow in Durant or Curry's earhole. The Warriors have been the kings of cheapshots for quite a while.

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On 2/26/2018 at 3:49 AM, DireWolfSpirit said:

I heard this same misconceived talk the years the Pistons went to the finals. Every single pundit, writer and broadcaster spent the entire post season bloviating over how the West was going to destroy the East and the so-called experts didnt have a clue that the reason Indiana Vs Detroit series neither team would score more than 80 pts was because of absolute dominant shutdown defenses. They were so sure the super duper dream teams out West, that were scoring 120 pts a night, were going to have a cakewalk in the finals.

Yet they were all grossly wrong, the East ( on the court ) absolutelymanhandled the West in the finals because they were overwhelmed when they met a defense that could (regularly) hold teams to 15 points for an entire quarter.

I would not put money against seeing another Eastern Conference finals championship yet again this year.

Was that the same Pistons team that were beaten by the one-man Cleveland team who were swept by the Spurs in the finals the next year? 

Regardless, my point was that you have to look beyond the finals. If we are cherry picking, look at the standings for the 2013/14 season. 9th place in the West, 3rd/4th place in the East? And that's not even what they are proposing to address. They are still taking the top eight teams from each conference. Its about making the later rounds of the playoffs more competitive, both East and West. 

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