NBA 2017 - 18: A Shot at Parity

[baxus]

5 hours ago, Sour Billy Tipton said:

I understand that millions of children are going to aspire to be them but it's the job of the parent(s) to enforce the idea that athletics should always take a backseat to academics.

Why should parents enforce that athletics take a backseat to academics? Or vice versa?

What if parents have an average student that has exceptional athletic ability and loves playing sport? Should they try to force the kid into being something he/she is not just to promote this "academics over athletics" thing?

It's a whole different story that people put their favourite athletes on a pedestal for no good reason.

[DireWolfSpirit]

7 hours ago, Sour Billy Tipton said:

Athletes shouldn't be considered role models.  Too often they are condemned by the media when they commit criminal acts.  Or lauded by the media when they are performing P.R. duties or giving to charities in the form of tax deductions.

I understand that millions of children are going to aspire to be them but it's the job of the parent(s) to enforce the idea that athletics should always take a backseat to academics.

LeBron seems like a good guy but he takes himself too seriously.  Last year he became overly sensitive and attacked Barkley personally while complementing himself as a role model.  When in fact, Barkley is more grounded in reality when it comes to his status as a sports celebrity and a citizen.  On several occasions you hear Charles explain to fans that he was simply good at putting a ball in a hoop.  

Everything LeBron states about social issues in America is simply an echo we constantly hear from the left.  Which isn't necessarily always a bad thing, but he brings nothing new to the table.  If he wanted my respect and the respect of millions of other Americans,  he would tell the children who look up to him; the odds of them becoming famous athletes/rappers are highly against them.  That education is the best investment to make in their young lives.  That they should respect women and be responsible adults.  To not be like his father and the millions of other black fathers who abandon their children. 

Not a comment on your overall point, but why shouldnt athletes be condemned for criminal acts?

I am unbothered by criminal acts being condemned.

Lebron James on education- http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/nba-star-lebron-james-personal-commitment-community-childhood/story?id=41472346

His "I Promise" Scholarship program- http://www.cleveland.com/morris/index.ssf/2017/04/lebron_james_has_emerged_as_an.html

As a role model electing to pursue a degree himself- http://dailycaller.com/2016/10/14/lebron-james-decides-to-pursue-college-degree/

It would be disengenuous to suggest Lebron hasnt been an education advocate.

 

[Relic]

15 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

As a Celtics fan, I've been up and down on LeBron. I probably became a permanent Bron fan when he brought a title to Cleveland. I still think he makes plenty of mistakes, and I don't think it's a good idea to pass passive-aggressive notes on his teammates and his team through social media.

That said, I very much admire his willingness to engage on tough social issues. I wish more athletes were like LeBron. Really, this dude has been famous since he was like 15 years old and stupendously wealthy and unaccountable since he was 18, and we should be amazed at how decent and giving he turned out to be. He's a huge fucking improvement over the Barkleys and Jordans of the world.

SO far, I personally agree with this sentiment the most from all the replies. Is LeBron well spoken? Meh. Is he the smartest person in the room at any given moment? Probably no. Is he the most humble person in the room at any given moment? Absolutely not. HOWEVER, given that this dude is a fucking freak of nature and was crowned a "King" by Nike from age 17 it is absolutely INCREDIBLE to see how he has handled his image, his career, and his adult life. The fact that he even makes any time at all to speak on social issues is pretty great. Little known fact - he and Wade were instrumental to setting up a healthcare/insurance fund for older NBA vets who had nothing of the sort until 1216. 

[Ferrum Aeternum]

1 hour ago, Relic said:

Little known fact - he and Wade were instrumental to setting up a healthcare/insurance fund for older NBA vets who had nothing of the sort until 1216. 

You'd have thought the Magna Carta would've included such a provision...

[sperry]

LeBron is a smart guy, he just has zero people skills. Not a bad dude, just a weird guy very far along the spectrum who happens to have been blessed with most athletic body in living human memory.

[Sour Billy Tipton]

9 hours ago, baxus said:

Why should parents enforce that athletics take a backseat to academics? Or vice versa?

Simply going with laws of probability.  The odds of becoming a professional athlete are extremely against a high school student.  Better off using athletics as a means to obtain a scholarship and pursue a degree.

8 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Not a comment on your overall point, but why shouldnt athletes be condemned for criminal acts?

Mainly because it would be a double standard for me to say; I don't want athletes to be given praise every time they show up to a children's hospital with a camera crew and a check for donation, while I point the finger and chastise Aaron Hernandez.

The truth of the matter is many professional athletes have been rewarded at birth with genetics that enable them to accomplish amazing physical feats.  By the time they reach middle school coaches are aware of it and many give them special treatments and allow them to flunk classes as long as they play that season.  The exceptional ones get the attention of scouts and college recruiters.  Many of these adults are giving "gifts" in order to win favor and attach themselves like parasites in order to ascend in their own respective careers.  None of this builds character in a child, especially the ones who have been living in an inner-city and have never had any discipline at home.  When they become adults they should never be considered role models.

P.S.  Hoop Dreams is one of the best documentaries ever made.  It tackles all and more of this subject matter.

8 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Lebron James on education- http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/nba-star-lebron-james-personal-commitment-community-childhood/story?id=41472346

His "I Promise" Scholarship program- http://www.cleveland.com/morris/index.ssf/2017/04/lebron_james_has_emerged_as_an.html

As a role model electing to pursue a degree himself- http://dailycaller.com/2016/10/14/lebron-james-decides-to-pursue-college-degree/

It would be disengenuous to suggest Lebron hasnt been an education advocate.

That's great LeBron does tell children that, but at the same time he charges children thousands of dollars to attend his basketball camps.  If he truly cared about social issues he would invite students who have a 3.0 GPA to attend for free.

[Relic]

39 minutes ago, Sour Billy Tipton said:

 None of this builds character in a child, especially the ones who have been living in an inner-city and have never had any discipline at home.  When they become adults they should never be considered role models.

wow

[Sour Billy Tipton]

9 minutes ago, Relic said:

wow

Geez, that was a convenient way of paraphrasing my statement into two sentences that make me look bad.  Do you have a media credential?

[DanteGabriel]

6 minutes ago, Sour Billy Tipton said:

Geez, that was a convenient way of paraphrasing my statement into two sentences that make me look bad.  Do you have a media credential?

I would like to hear more about your close observations of children in the "inner-city" and what their lives are like.

[Sour Billy Tipton]

Just now, DanteGabriel said:

I would like to hear more about your close observations of children in the "inner-city" and what their lives are like.

Anytime you're in South Jersey send me a message.  I'll take you on a trip to Camden city, outside the waterfront and away from Rutgers/Rowan campus police protection.  The political correctness will dissipate faster than your condescension. 

[baxus]

1 hour ago, Sour Billy Tipton said:

Simply going with laws of probability.  The odds of becoming a professional athlete are extremely against a high school student.  Better off using athletics as a means to obtain a scholarship and pursue a degree.

No one here is arguing against getting an education. It's just that the whole "athletics must take back seat to academics" spiel just stinks of snobbery. For some it should and it does, for others it shouldn't and it doesn't.

Some kids are more athletic, some are more academic or artistic or scientific... possibilities are endless! There is no right or wrong answer there and, even more importantly, you can't turn an athletic kid into an academic kid no more than you could do it the other way around. Even if LeBron had gone to the finest schools, attended most prestigious universities, I doubt he'd turn into this world-changing scientist, just like I doubt that those world-changing scientists would become NBA league MVPs if they'd gone through the same basketball training as LeBron.

[DanteGabriel]

1 hour ago, Sour Billy Tipton said:

Anytime you're in South Jersey send me a message.  I'll take you on a trip to Camden city, outside the waterfront and away from Rutgers/Rowan campus police protection.  The political correctness will dissipate faster than your condescension. 

Thanks for the real talk, bro. I admire your courage and intrepid spirit. I'll keep my condescension, though.

[Relic]

1 hour ago, Sour Billy Tipton said:

Anytime you're in South Jersey send me a message.  I'll take you on a trip to Camden city, outside the waterfront and away from Rutgers/Rowan campus police protection.  The political correctness will dissipate faster than your condescension. 

Grew up in Brooklyn and went to high school on 205th and Jerome in the Bronx. What are you getting at?

[Sour Billy Tipton]

Whoa!  My popularity has suddenly increased give me a few minutes to properly respond!

[Sour Billy Tipton]

1 hour ago, baxus said:

No one here is arguing against getting an education. It's just that the whole "athletics must take back seat to academics" spiel just stinks of snobbery. For some it should and it does, for others it shouldn't and it doesn't.

Some kids are more athletic, some are more academic or artistic or scientific... possibilities are endless! There is no right or wrong answer there and, even more importantly, you can't turn an athletic kid into an academic kid no more than you could do it the other way around. Even if LeBron had gone to the finest schools, attended most prestigious universities, I doubt he'd turn into this world-changing scientist, just like I doubt that those world-changing scientists would become NBA league MVPs if they'd gone through the same basketball training as LeBron.

Once again it's an argument based upon probability/odds/FACTS.  If you believe athletics should take a backseat to academics, that's your prerogative.  If you fail to comprehend that one has extreme limitations when hiring, while the other has thousands of career options while hiring millions of applicants.  Well that's your problem.

I'm not being pretentious and looking down on professional athletes who lack an education.  Who wouldn't want to play a game for millions of dollars?  

1 hour ago, DanteGabriel said:

Thanks for the real talk, bro. I admire your courage and intrepid spirit. I'll keep my condescension, though.

No problem broseph.  

1 hour ago, Relic said:

Grew up in Brooklyn and went to high school on 205th and Jerome in the Bronx. What are you getting at?

That comment I made about Camden city was directed toward DanteGabriel.  But thanks for telling us you grew up in the Bronx?  Do you know Jenny from the Block?

[Jaime L]

12 hours ago, Relic said:

SO far, I personally agree with this sentiment the most from all the replies. Is LeBron well spoken? Meh. Is he the smartest person in the room at any given moment? Probably no. Is he the most humble person in the room at any given moment? Absolutely not. HOWEVER, given that this dude is a fucking freak of nature and was crowned a "King" by Nike from age 17 it is absolutely INCREDIBLE to see how he has handled his image, his career, and his adult life. The fact that he even makes any time at all to speak on social issues is pretty great. Little known fact - he and Wade were instrumental to setting up a healthcare/insurance fund for older NBA vets who had nothing of the sort until 1216. 

Also he's paying the tuition for 800 kids in Akron to go to college. The guy has a genuine social conscience that he acts upon. There's no question he's a pain in the ass teammate with all his passive aggressive bullshit. But off the court I'm been impressed as hell at the way he's carried himself since The Decision. Feel like all the criticism he received in the wake of that and the 2011 Finals made him stronger, more mature.

It's his league in the way it was Jordan's but he sets a more woke tone at the top that I do think filters down. His on the court IQ is off the charts and I think he's pretty damn smart off the court too. I'm curious what he does once his career is over. 

[baxus]

9 hours ago, Sour Billy Tipton said:

Once again it's an argument based upon probability/odds/FACTS.  If you believe athletics should take a backseat to academics, that's your prerogative.  If you fail to comprehend that one has extreme limitations when hiring, while the other has thousands of career options while hiring millions of applicants.  Well that's your problem.

I'm not being pretentious and looking down on professional athletes who lack an education.  Who wouldn't want to play a game for millions of dollars?  

You want facts, do you? Let's start with these then.

Your initial argument was not that odds for becoming a professional athlete are slim and that education is important. If it was, we wouldn't discuss about it since we all agree with that. Your initial argument was that, and I quote: "athletics should take a back seat to academics". Such a blanket statement is condescending and plain wrong. Different kids have different talents and there's nothing wrong with kids being happy doing different stuff. 

Another fact - the odds of making it as a pro athlete are not the same for a kid of LeBron's talent, physical abilities and work ethics and for some less gifted kid. Why should someone force LeBron (or Bryant or Garnett) into college for four years where they'll dominate their sport, get by their college courses on count of their athleticism and lose millions of dollars they could've made in the NBA during those four years? What is the upside of that?

No one denies that not all kids can do that just like not all kids can get a PhD in astrophysics, whether through lack of ability or desire.

[Relic]

12 hours ago, Sour Billy Tipton said:

That comment I made about Camden city was directed toward DanteGabriel.  But thanks for telling us you grew up in the Bronx?  Do you know Jenny from the Block?

We all know what you are getting at so stop with the coded language. 

[Sour Billy Tipton]

6 hours ago, baxus said:

Your initial argument was that, and I quote: "athletics should take a back seat to academics". Such a blanket statement is condescending and plain wrong. Different kids have different talents and there's nothing wrong with kids being happy doing different stuff. 

Another fact - the odds of making it as a pro athlete are not the same for a kid of LeBron's talent, physical abilities and work ethics and for some less gifted kid.

No one denies that not all kids can do that just like not all kids can get a PhD in astrophysics, whether through lack of ability or desire.

That statement is not wrong, you just don't agree with it.  Which is fine.  I don't agree with your ideals of athletics taking precedence over education.  ONCE AGAIN, I'm going with laws of probability and stating that an investment of time and money to education is a better investment in terms of the student achieving a profession at the end.  Compared to athletics.  That is a fact.  Since you're the one bringing up "facts", show me the numbers that go against my argument.

7 hours ago, baxus said:

Different kids have different talents and there's nothing wrong with kids being happy doing different stuff. 

No one denies that not all kids can do that just like not all kids can get a PhD in astrophysics, whether through lack of ability or desire.

You're assuming the majority of children would be happier participating in sports compared to participating in the classroom.  I believe you're confused about my argument--the pragmatics of academics being the standard over athletics pertaining to career outlook--and trying to make a different debate on parents influencing their children for their best interests would be harmful to their development emotionally when that child has more interest in athletics.

Also, I never referred to students obtaining a PhD in astrophysics.  You're making it seem like that is the standard.  When in fact there is no shame in students attending a trade school and making a great living as a plumber, electrician, construction manager...

[Sour Billy Tipton]

5 hours ago, Relic said:

We all know what you are getting at so stop with the coded language. 

Nooo, I don't speak in code.  Tell me what I'm getting at?  I felt that I was being fairly transparent.