Ser Insight

R+L=A

153 posts in this topic

This is my first post/thread on this forum so I apologize in advance if this is not in the right area. I have been browsing this community for sometime now and the overall consensus is Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. That is wrong on so many levels. Jon is the son of Ned Stark and Ashara Dayne. 

R+L=YG (A)
N+A=J

Jon Snow is not only the true born son of Ned Stark but he is the ONLY true born child of Ned Stark!!! In order to tackle this we must take a hard look at Ned's past and primarily the events of the Tourney at Harrenhal/The Tower of Joy/Roberts Rebellion.

The Tourney at Harrenhal took place at 281 AC. It is here where the seeds of Roberts Rebellion were planted. The obvious act which most people identify with the Tourney at Harrenhal is when Prince Rhaeger was crowned champion and rode past his wife Elia Martell to name Lyanna Stark Queen of Love and Beauty. Though this may appear to be the most prominent moment in the entire tourney it is not. In A Storm of Swords Meera Reed tells Bran about the Knight of the Laughing Tree; A Mystery knight who entered the list at the Tourney (Many believe it is Howland Reed Meera's and Jojens father and great friend of Ned Stark). In any event Bran interrupts her story claiming its not true nor has he ever heard this story before (he's never hear it before because Ned forbade anyone at Winterfell to speak of Ashara Dayne that includes Old Nan) Meera disregards his comment and continues to tell the story. In the story she uses code names as a means to label each individual (I will not list all the names or go into the full story as I want to stay on track of the events as it relates to Ned) The importance of the story is when Meera tells Bran that the wild wolf (Brandon stark; Neds older brother) approached Ashara Dayne to dance with Ned. Brandon was already betrothed to Catelyn Tully and was trying to help his younger brother. Ned and Ashara dance and hit it off and both fall head over heels for each other. Cant really knock Ned he's the 2nd eldest son so everything is promised to Brandon whose betrothed to Catelyn so he may as well get his dick wet with whom he wants plus she's fucking gorgeous. The Tourney ends 10 days later and everyone goes there separate ways.

An unknown time later it turns out that Rhaeger "kidnapped" Lyanna Stark who is betrothed to Robert Baratheon and shit hits the fan. No one knows exactly where Ned goes after the tourney but it is known that he has to travel north through the Mountains Of The Moon and the Vale as a means to call the banners. Just from that fact its safe to assume Ned went south somewhere with someone... Ned was with Ashara Dayne (aka Septa Lemore most likely Starfall. They were with each other for at least a year plus (Idk exactly how the westerosi calendar works but its pretty "earth" like) in that time its safe to assume Ned and Ashara fell in love and did the tango a few times. 

Now the next piece of history that we must look at is in 282. Brandon Stark is in Riverrun when the announced date of his marriage between he and Catelyn will be. Little Finger was 15 years old and being fostered at Riverrun and asks for Catelyn Tully's hand. He has a duel with Brandon Stark as a means to win her hand. Little Finger gets absolutely destroyed and almost dies from his wounds. Note Brandon Stark is in Riverrun when the wedding date is announced and after his duel with Little Finger he return north to join his fathers wedding party and promises Catelyn he will be back. On their way back to Riverrun news reaches them that Rhaeger has abducted Lyanna and rode straight to Kings Landing instead of going to Riverrun. Most people know what happened at this moment. Brandon enters the Red Keep shouts out for Rhaeger to come out and die... Instead King Aerys arrests Brandon (for plotting to kill Prince Rhaeger) demands that his father comes to Kings Landing to plead their fealty to house Targaryen and the realm. Once Rickard Stark enters the Red Keep he to is arrested and was burnt alive with wildfyre. Brandon was chained up and strangled to death as a means to save his father. This is extremely important to note because it gives a proper timeline of the events! So just a reminder:

281- Tourney of Harrenhal (Ned meets Ashara)
282- Abduction of Lyanna Stark and deaths of Rickard and Brandon Stark
282-283- Roberts Rebellion
 

After the deaths of Rickard and Brandon, Jon Arryn was told by king Aerys to bring the head of Robert Baratheon (Lyanna's betrothed) and Ned! Instead he raises the banners. At this point we know that Ned is on the way to Riverrun with Ashara to get his father's blessing to marry her, but upon hearing the news of his father/brother/sister he now changes course to make his way north to Winterfell. Here is where it gets very interesting. After crossing the mountains of the moon and the fingers he hires a fisherman to take him to White Harbor. He winds up stopping at Sisterton due to natural reasons (most likely a storm their their ship off course).

In A Dance With Dragons a Davos Chapter he is "imprisoned" in the Wolfs Den (I don't want to spend to much on the wolfs den at the moment but its basically a prison but has the luxury feel of any great castle giving Davos the thought that it isn't a prison at all but a hide out. As he was being hidden from the Freys and the Lannisters at this point. More on that another time.) They were hiding Ashara. During the chapter we get the tale of the fishermans daughter. The gentlemen being described in the story is Ned and he was with a women and baby! After he lands in White Harbor he goes to Winterfell and calls the banners to joins the rebellion. (Its very possible this child doesn't live very long and dies shortly after arriving in White Harbor). We are told immediately Jon's age (14 then 15) The first mention of Robb's age is 15 but not till 23 chapters into the book after the mention of Jon turning 15 making him the eldest and lines up ideally with the timeline! Jon couldn't be the baby born in the Tower of Joy as that takes place in 284 (Will get to that later but if your born in 284 and the current year is 300 you would be 16 not 15.) This is where is gets very tricky... Ned married Ashara at some point after the Tourney at Harrenhal!!! This is extremely important to the story and the proof is the following:

When Tywin finds out Robb marries Jeyne Westering after bedding her. Tywin tells the reader that he is his "Fathers son" perhaps a clue that Robb followed in the footsteps of his old man (Though both Robb and Ned married for Love, Ned does the right and "honorable" thing and accepts his forced marriage with Cat. If he didn't the outcome would have been death which is what Robb got). Ned's marriage with Ashara is the hardest event to prove definitively because no one knew where Ned was nor his relationship with Ashara (Ned and Ashara married in White Harbor as they have weirwoods there and believe in the old gods (this is a must remember). In A Storm of Swords Arya is captured by the brotherhood without banners and meets a boy named Edric Dayne (the lord of Starfall his aunt and uncle are Ashara/Arthur aka sword of the morning) his nickname is Ned (for Ned Stark). Erdric goes on tell Arya about Ned and Ashara's relationship and how much he was respected and loved by their entire house. Think about this for a second Ned must have been truly loved by them even after he "killed" (which I don't believe he did but that's for another day) Arthur Dayne the sword of the morning and is the cause of Ashara's "suicide" (which didn't happen either) that they willingly call the new lord of Starfall after Ned! Now Arya being Arya doesn't believe him and freaks out because what does she really know she's only a child and Ned forbade anyone of speaking about Ashara (Also the only children of Ned who is described as looking like a Stark/Ned is Jon and Arya the rest of the children have the Tully look). It's important to note why would they tell Edric this story if it were untrue? Also he mentions how he wanted to talk to Ned when he saw him in KL but was so nervous that he didn't.  At this point Ned reaches Winterfell leaving Ashara at White Harbor and is waiting for his banner-men to come so they can join forces with Robert/Jon/Hoster and wins the Battle of the Bells.
 

We have to note that the Lannisters have not called their banners for either side and without another major house on there side Ned/Robert/Jon are toast. In steps Lord Hoster Tully and the worst woman in the entire series Catelyn Tully. As a means to join the fight Hoster Demands Ned to marry Catelyn in his brothers place and Jon to Marry Lysa. In the midst of a rebellion Ned and Co don't exactly have time on their side and he is forced into his marriage with Cat. When these negotiations were taking place it is said the rift between The Blackfish and his older brother and liege lord begin. After these negotiations The Blackfish took his own sigil and left house Tully to give his service to House Arryn and became the knight of the gate in the Vale. Hoster had Southron Ambitions and wanted to improve his house' rank through marriage and politics. Blackfish clearly didn't want to force Ned's hand but there was nothing he can do. Ned marries Cat in the sept at Riverrun in the EYES OF THE SEVEN. This is very important because Ned is marrying twice without getting the first one annulled or Hoster straight up doesn't care and mind that he is already married. Moreover Ned and all northerners don't accept the 7 as their gods They only accept the old gods and marriages in the North must be done in front of a Weirwood. Ned even makes a comment how he has shamed all of his family (On a side note while in KL Ned makes a comment how he hasn't thought of Rhaegar in years. If you were raising the son of a fallen prince who happens to be your nephew as well you would probably think of his father very frequently But since Jon is his own blood..) Why did he shame his family (especially since he doesn't really have any at this point except for Ashara and possibly Jon) He married in front of the 7 which isn't accepted in the North and he technically has 2 wives so that could bring on some shame. After this Prince Rhaeger emerges out of no where and loses the Battle of the Trident and Tywin sacks Kings Landing. This ultimately concluded the rebellion at the end of 283. However their is still the siege at Storms End. Robert orders Ned to break the siege and successfully does so. At this point Ned is searching for Lyanna and happens to go precisely to the Tower of Joy. 

281- Tourney at Harrenhal
282- Abduction of Lyanna and deaths of Rickard and Brandon
282-283- Roberts Rebellion
283- Robb Stark born at Riverrun
284- Tower of Joy
Somewhere in these years Ned married Ashara and had Jon in late 283 or even very early 284 (most likely in mid-late 283 Jon was born)

After the siege at Storms End Ned travels towards Dorne and comes upon the Tower of Joy. Which is literally in the middle of no where. Someone must have told Ned to travel near here (my bet is Varys or Pycelle but no one really knows. Most likely Varys though. You just can't let the fact that out of the entire realm Ned by chance stumbles upon the location of his sister. Something doesn't add up...Varys going all the way >>>) Ned and company arrive at the Tower of Joy and see 3 members of the Kingsguard Ser Oswell Whent Ser Athur Dayne and the Lord Commander Ser Gerold Hightower. First off as readers we have to note that 3 of the best fighters in the entire world are just casually outside of this random tower and not hiding or inside. The 3 of them could have easily defeated Ned and his entire company if they were positioned properly. I don't know why they would just be hanging around outside especially if they're protecting the Princes' pregnant mistress/girlfriend. Ned said he defeated Arthur Dayne NOT KILLED. This is a huge distinction that we must make. If Ned killed him or Howland Reed Ned would have said he was killed in the fighting not defeated! Arthur Dayne is still alive and he is Mance Rayder! Anyway Ned and Co get into a dispute with the Kingsguard and everyone is killed except Howland Reed and Ned (The Kingsguard members didn't die and are alive and well.) Why did they fight? When Ned and Co reach the TOJ and talk with the 3 Kingsguard they have a huge fight. Why? Arthur Dayne is one of the most revered, respected, noble men in the entire world and just found out that his sisters lover just married another women, knocked up his sister, and is about to set her aside to never see her again or the child they had together. Well Arthur didn't take the news so well and just snapped and drew is sword. Not only did Ned just break his sisters heart/take her maidenhood/ leave her with a child/ never see her again he also helped get his best friend (Rhaegar) killed. They fight, Arthur blows of some steam and the Kingsguard protects their brother. 

Ned Runs up the stairs to his dying sister and there he see's her in her pool of blood and a new born baby and a wet nurse! There was another person with Lyanna she was most likely the girl we know as Wylla. Edric Dayne says to Arya that Wylla was Jons mother and or wet nurse (The meaning of Wylla means wife aka Ashara...) Anyway Ned see's his sister and she says to him to promise to watch out for her baby boy. There's only one major issue. He is the spitting image of Rhaeger and has full blown Targ Traits. The platinum white blonde hair the blue purple lilac color eyes. Ned knowing Robert and his current mission to kill every Targaryen isn't going to be very thrilled that the women he loves and is betrothed to just gave birth to a replica of Rhaeger. 

In a Dance with Dragons Tyrion is shipped off to Pentos via Varys to escape the clutches of his family. Tyrion being the witty little drunk that he is discovers a very special someone during his travels through the free cities on his way to Mereen. But before we move on any further Rhaeger's son (with Elia Martell), Aegon was born in either 281 or 282 making him either 18 or 19 by the start of A Dance With Dragons... When Tywin sacked Kings Landing Aegon claims that Varys switched baby Aegon out with another and that he was shipped off the narrow sea to safety as was being groomed his entire life to be the rightful King but more importantly a good King who rules for his people and not for one self... I think its safe to assume baby Aegon was killed by Tywin and Varys knows that... And this Aegon is truly the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna not Elia he just doesn't know that.

Anyway Tyrion is on his way to meet Danny and he is on a ship called the Shy Maid with a Sell Sword going by the name of Griff and his son Young Griff. Another sellsword named Duck a Septa named Lemore (who is most likely  Ashara Dayne as Tyrion points out she has stretch marks from a previous birth...) and a rhyonish couple helping them navigate the waters (Just some more IAF history Young Griff and Egg from the Dunk and Egg tales are the only 2 characters that have a floppy brim straw hat and a knight/guard. Egg has a Dunk so why not give Aegon a Duck. These 2 characteristics can't be thrown out the window both are wearing the same straw hat using a alias and are accompanied on their journey with a sellsword/knight who eventually become the first of their kingsguard....) The first thing Tyrion lets us know is that the boy is about 15/16 (there is a drastic difference between a 15/16 year old and a 18/19 year old) (15/16 fits ideally with the timeline and the Tower of Joy. He would be 16 at the time of ADWD the age Tyrion puts Aegon's age). The tower of Joy scenes we get from Ned are during his fever dreams (he was drugged up on milk of the poppy (if anybody has a vile of that let me know). and his dreams don't depict the truth of the situation. George has even said It's a fever dream and that doesn't mean its 100% accurate.

Tyrion who is going by the nickname Hugor Hill or Yollo finally pieces everything out. After having some wine and a few games of cyvasse it comes to him... Why does a son of a sell sword need 1) a body guard 2) a arms trainer 3) a septa... Tyrion notices these don't exactly add up along with his looks. Late we get from a Jon connington chapter that Aegon is the spitting image of Rhaeger and nearly says the same exact words Rhaegar said to him about his lands. This Young Griff impostor even has dyed his hair blue "in memory" of his Tyroshi mother. The only woman in the world of ice and fire whose associated with the color blue is Lyanna Stark... Anyway Tyrion being his witty self calls out Young Griff for who he really is and his companions... It turns out that Griff is the exile lord Jon Connington (the dumbass who lost the battle of the bells because he didn't check the brothels....) Young Griff is Aegon (please note that Aegon and Tyrion himself think he's the rightful heir and son of Rhaeger Targaryen and Elia Martell and not Lyanna Stark (He would be 3/4 years older if he was the "real" Aegon. After spending sometime with Tyrion he is finally convinced to head to Westeros without his "aunt" and not come to her as a beggar... I don't want to spend to much time on Young Griff's story and future so ill stop here on that. So back to the TOJ.

Ned promises Lyanna he will take care of her boy. After Lyanna kicks the bucket and Ned has figured out what to do with this baby who is the spitting image of Rhaeger he rides to Starfall with baby Aegon... Ashara left White Harbor at some point to come home and stay away from the fighting it is here where we get the most remarkable father like son baby swap!!! Ned claims to have returned to Starfall to bring back the ancestral sword Dawn of House Dayne. It his here where Ned see's Ashara with baby Jon and Ashara see's baby Aegon with Ned. Ned swaps Aegon for Jon. (Cercei even mentions this "stolen baby" to Ned during their encounter when Ned calls her children out for being Jaime's. We must also remember the only time Ned truly gets angry or mad is when someone brings up Ashara) This swap solves all the troubles Ned would encounter if he took Aegon home. He wouldn't have to worry about hiding a Targaryen from his best friend and future king and he knows Ashara will look after Aegon as they loved each other. History tells us Ashara threw herself off the roof of the castle and killed herself because the grief was to much for her to bear that her lover killed her brother... Ashara crossed the narrow sea with baby Aegon with limited people knowing (ned/varys (possibly)/howland reed(possibly/connington) Jon has done the baby swap as well & both babies that were swapped have the blood of House Dayne in their veins (Father like son)... Ned returns to Winterfell with baby Jon and the rest is history. All of these events fit the timeline and has George's fingerprints all over. A real "fake" Aegon is the perfect twist... So lets just Recap:

281: Need meets Ashara at the Tourney at Harrenhal
282- Abduction of Lyanna and deaths of Rickard and Brandon
282-283- Roberts Rebellion
283- Robb Stark born at Riverrun
284- Tower of Joy

Ned marries Ashara at some point in White Harbor thus making Jon his only true born child and eldest child! 

For all you R+L=J Supporters a few questions...
What would this do for this story? Everyone vying for the throne would literally have to throw in the towel if that were the case. How would that play out? Stannis would dismiss it and pretend he never heard it. Cercei wouldn't believe it and drink some more wine. Dany & Aegon would also dismiss it as well as their claim is hurt by Jon's. Also think about how people would react when they find out how he learned this...

Bran who would now be his cousin traveled on the back of Hodor with 2 crannogmen (who are the least respected people in Westeros) to beyond the wall. Beyond the wall they met Bloodraven in a cave who is around 120 years old and attached to a tree. Bloodraven taught Bran how to see the past through Weirwood trees. Yea I don't think this is a very believable story even if it was true and Howland Reed came out from wherever he was to back up Jon's claim.

Jon has no dragon dreams which is a common Targaryen trait. The closest thing to "dragons" Jon is aligned with is the constellation the Ice Dragon. Moreover, Jon is most heavily correlated with "Dawn." The Battle for the Dawn and the legendary sword of House Dayne, Dawn. He is the sword of the morning come again. Jon being the true son of Ned and Ashara add's more to the story than Jon being the son of Rhaegar and Lyannas. Winterfell is truly his (not to mention Robb made Jon his heir in his will). And all of Ned's children with Cat are technically bastards. Cat's biggest fear was Jon taking what is "rightfully" her children's. Jon's entire upbringing had to do with his mother not his father and his struggle of not being a true Stark and part of the family. And with that said here is the proper timeline of Roberts Rebellion (Through Ned & Ashara. Remember Ned was bringing Ashara with him to Brandon's wedding to ask his father for his permission to marry her):

283: Jon Arryn calls the banners
- Ned goes through the mountains and fingers (roughly 26-31 days about 470-570 miles)
- Ned than takes a fishing boat to Sisterton (roughly 15 days about 590-650 miles)
- Ned takes a boat to White Harbor (roughly 4 days about 420 miles)
- Ned rides or takes boat upriver to Winterfell (roughly 10 days 630 miles) (He leaves Ashara in White Harbor. Most likely being hidden in the Wolfs Den)
- Ned waits for his banner men to arrive at least 41 days (It is at this time Ned probably made a trip back to White Harbor to spend time with Ashara while he waits for his banner men. They do the tango a few times and she becomes pregnant with Jon.)
- Ned and Co march south to the crossing to meet Jon Arryn (roughly 83 days about 16650 miles)
- Ned Marches to Riverrun (about 24 days 470 miles)
- Ned rides to Stoney Sept (Battle of the Bells) to save Robert (about 8 days roughly 280 miles)
- Ned marches back to Riverrun to Marry Cat (about 10-14 days roughly 280 miles)
- Battle of the Trident 130 days later
- Dany is conceived prior to the sack of Kings Landing
- Sack of KL about 15 days later
- Jon is born (within a month of Dany's conception)

Accept it. Jon is Ned's. Aegon is Legit and Cercei is a dumb whore.

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You've been watching The Order Of The Greenhand, haven't you? How did TOJ happen in 284? TOJ happened, by most indication, before Robert was crowned, Robert was crowned in 283. There's also no proof in the text that Ned & Ashara Dayne were married. Like NONE.

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1 hour ago, Ser Insight said:

This is my first post/thread on this forum so I apologize in advance if this is not in the right area.

"Wrong forum" is not the problem here.

1 hour ago, Ser Insight said:

After the deaths of Rickard and Brandon, Jon Arryn was told by king Aerys to bring the head of Robert Baratheon (Lyanna's betrothed) and Ned! Instead he raises the banners. At this point we know that Ned is on the way to Riverrun with Ashara to get his father's blessing to marry her,

Leaps like this one here, however...

Preston, that you?

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14 minutes ago, RhaegoTheUnborn said:

You've been watching The Order Of The Greenhand, haven't you? How did TOJ happen in 284? TOJ happened, by most indication, before Robert was crowned, Robert was crowned in 283. There's also no proof in the text that Ned & Ashara Dayne were married. Like NONE.

There's also no proof Rhaegar and Lyanna ever had a baby. I want the proof for Jon being R+L and never received any "rock solid" evidence. I've watched some of their videos and agree with some of their stuff this being one of them. I would only be to happy to hear why and how Jon is Rhaegar's

 

44 minutes ago, Tygett Lannister said:

y tho

George is trying to set up the reader for another Blackfyre pretender/Dance of Dragons. Hence the Brienne chapter about the CLanking Dragon and the pieces washing up red as rust.

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6 minutes ago, Ser Insight said:

There's also no proof Rhaegar and Lyanna ever had a baby. I want the proof for Jon being R+L and never received any "rock solid" evidence. I've watched some of their videos and agree with some of their stuff this being one of them. I would only be to happy to hear why and how Jon is Rhaegar's

 

George is trying to set up the reader for another Blackfyre pretender/Dance of Dragons. Hence the Brienne chapter about the CLanking Dragon and the pieces washing up red as rust.

We at least know of a relationship between the two, thus the possibility of them making love and having a child. The proof of this child is TOJ in itself, what would Lyanna be doing there? What would Rhaegars kingsguard and closest friend be doing there, what were they protecting? The heir to the Iron Throne. Whether it was Jon or not is irrelevant in this case. You can't make claims with absolutely no textual proof or evidence, and then counter that with "Well there's no proof that Rhaegar and Lyanna had a baby".

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5 minutes ago, RhaegoTheUnborn said:

We at least know of a relationship between the two, thus the possibility of them making love and having a child. The proof of this child is TOJ in itself, what would Lyanna be doing there? What would Rhaegars kingsguard and closest friend be doing there, what were they protecting? The heir to the Iron Throne. Whether it was Jon or not is irrelevant in this case. You can't make claims with absolutely no textual proof or evidence, and then counter that with "Well there's no proof that Rhaegar and Lyanna had a baby".


That's true. But the baby born their doesn't (and isn't) have to be Jon. If Jon was the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna he would have most likely been born in the crypts of Winterfell, hence the Bael the Bard story from Ygritte.

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2 hours ago, Ser Insight said:

In A Storm of Swords Meera Reed tells Bran about the Knight of the Laughing Tree; A Mystery knight who entered the list at the Tourney (Many believe it is Howland Reed Meera's and Jojens father and great friend of Ned Stark)

I was under the impression that most readers thought Lyanna to be the KotLT. 

 

2 hours ago, Ser Insight said:

(he's never hear it before because Ned forbade anyone at Winterfell to speak of Ashara Dayne that includes Old Nan)

He doesn't forbid anyone to speak of Ashara Dayne. He tells Cat never to ask him about Jon. 

 

2 hours ago, Ser Insight said:

Ned and Ashara dance and hit it off and both fall head over heels for each other.

What evidence is there that Ned & Ashara fall head over heels for each other? 

 

2 hours ago, Ser Insight said:

No one knows exactly where Ned goes after the tourney but it is known that he has to travel north through the Mountains Of The Moon and the Vale as a means to call the banners. Just from that fact its safe to assume Ned went south somewhere with someone... Ned was with Ashara Dayne (aka Septa Lemore most likely Starfall. They were with each other for at least a year plus (Idk exactly how the westerosi calendar works but its pretty "earth" like) in that time its safe to assume Ned and Ashara fell in love and did the tango a few times

Listen I'm all down for a good theory but how does Ned traveling = he traveled with someone = that person was Ashara Dayne, who is also Septa Lemore = Ned & Ashara fell in love & did the tango? Do you see the issue here? Just because Ned traveled to call the banners does not "make it safe to say he traveled south south somewhere with someone" How are those things even related?  

 

2 hours ago, Ser Insight said:

At this point we know that Ned is on the way to Riverrun with Ashara to get his father's blessing to marry her,

Who is we? Because I most certainly don't know Ned was on his way to Riverrun to get his father's blessing. There's no text to support this claim. 

 

2 hours ago, Ser Insight said:

A Dance With Dragons a Davos Chapter he is "imprisoned" in the Wolfs Den (I don't want to spend to much on the wolfs den at the moment but its basically a prison but has the luxury feel of any great castle giving Davos the thought that it isn't a prison at all but a hide out. As he was being hidden from the Freys and the Lannisters at this point. More on that another time.) They were hiding Ashara.

Again. Just because there is a luxurious "cell" does not = they were hiding Ashara. What logic connects those two things? 

 

2 hours ago, Ser Insight said:

During the chapter we get the tale of the fishermans daughter. The gentlemen being described in the story is Ned and he was with a women and baby! After he lands in White Harbor he goes to Winterfell and calls the banners to joins the rebellion. (Its very possible this child doesn't live very long and dies shortly after arriving in White Harbor)

Wouldn't the most likely case be that it was Ned, Jon, & a wet nurse? Why wouldn't the child live long? I'm confused about what child you are even proposing this is that died in White Harbor 

 

2 hours ago, Ser Insight said:

We are told immediately Jon's age (14 then 15) The first mention of Robb's age is 15 but not till 23 chapters into the book after the mention of Jon turning 15 making him the eldest and lines up ideally with the timeline! Jon couldn't be the baby born in the Tower of Joy as that takes place in 284 (Will get to that later but if your born in 284 and the current year is 300 you would be 16 not 15.) This is where is gets very tricky... Ned married Ashara at some point after the Tourney at Harrenhal!!! This is extremely important to the story and the proof is the following:

Well no. I was born in 1980 but for part of 2017 I was 36 not 37. Thus for part of 300 Jon would still be 15. At any rate the TOJ didn't happen in 284. 

 

2 hours ago, Ser Insight said:

When Tywin finds out Robb marries Jeyne Westering after bedding her. Tywin tells the reader that he is his "Fathers son" perhaps a clue that Robb followed in the footsteps of his old man

How would Tywin be privy to this info? Tywin says that because Robb chose to marry Jeyne for her honor. Much the same as honorable Ned Stark would have done. 

I don't mean to disregard you but with this many holes & leaps of logic in the first quarter of the post I didn't read the rest. 

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I stopped reading after not very much scrolling because there were already so many unsubstantiated claims that I couldn't be bothered going any further. So this question may have been answered above, but none of the proponents of the "Ned and Ashara were in love" theories have ever given a satisfactory response:

Why would Ashara fall for Ned?

She's one of the most beautiful girls in the 7K, from an ancient house, and is lady in waiting to the Crown Princess. A girl like that could pick and choose from the available noblemen. Why would she be interested in plain faced, dull, second son Ned? He has nothing to offer but a life in the cold North in some second-rate keep that he holds for Lord Brandon, or at best living at Winterfell and serving in his brother's household. That's not a promising prospect for a beautiful young girl like Ashara.

I can see why Ned might fall for Ashara, yet nowhere in his chapters does he think about her, even once. So much for great romance, if all of his dreams and regrets are about his dying sister, yet for the woman he supposedly loved and secretly married and had a child with, he doesn't spare a single passing thought?

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3 hours ago, Ser Insight said:

Jon Snow is not only the true born son of Ned Stark but he is the ONLY true born child of Ned Stark!!! 

didn't make past this. R+L=J is a given now that the thing we aren't allowed to mention showed it. 
all else is TL/DR

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1 hour ago, Ser Insight said:

Aegon is legit your all blinded with R+L=J

"Blinded"....Nope, I don't think anyone is blinded by anything, fact is, that theory has supporting evidence, you came on here with a theory, inaccurate dating, and completely fabricated happenings. Nothing you put forth was supported with ANY textual evidence from the novels or it's many companion books.

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So you think Eddard Stark the most honorable man alive shamed his honor, his religion, The North, his beloved wife and his true heir? He also never once feels guilty about what he did to Ashara in his POVs?  Nor does he get angry at Catelyn or Hoster for forcing him to sire bastards and play them off as true born children, the exact same thing that Cersei is guilty of when Ned confronts her?

Those videos your watching aren't "clarifications,"  they are at best theories filled with holes that pick and choose what text in the books to use to support their "clarifications" and leave the text out that disproves their theories.

They also made "clarifications" videos about the thing we are not allowed to mention. When those "clarifications" were proven wrong they flipped out and called it bad writting. Not because it was, but because it went against their "clarifications."

 

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@Ser Insight You may have noticed that people are super touchy about R+L=~J. Challenging it is like going up to some fundamentalist Christians and telling them that Jesus didn't exist. Part of the problem is that there are so many threads on the subject. Almost weekly for years. So most people have been over the theories multiple times. So they're fatigued from discussing it so much.

I think some of the responses you've received are shameful and there's no excuse for them. If I'd responded to a new poster or anyone like that I would be ashamed.

When I see a subject I'm not interested in or think is ridiculous I don't read it and don't respond. I don't know why some people feel entitled to start trolling.

R+L=D keep the dream alive brother :D

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On 22. 11. 2017 at 9:23 PM, Ser Insight said:

Aegon is legit your all blinded with R+L=J

Wow, that's a deeply convincing argument...

 

Seriously, man, you have there tons of incorrect information, not to mention information that has zero support in the books. If you want to build a case, you have to try harder.

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Wow, this is a first class shitpost. There is so much blatantly false information in the OP that it is really not worth anyone's time pointing out the bullshit. R+L=J has already been confirmed; unfortunately show discussion is not allowed here but there is a thread over in the GoT forum. Only the contrarians desperately, and pathetically, cling to their pet theories.

And FYI to the OP and anyone else who thinks people are blinded by R+L=J. Over the years every single alternative has been thoroughly dissected and discussed and guess which one stands head and shoulders above the rest? Like it or not, the fact is Rhaegar and Lyanna are Jon's parents and he is true born to boot. Get over it.

Edited by Consigliere
sp

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