R+L=A

[RhaegoTheUnborn]

2 hours ago, Banner Without Brothers said:

@Ser Insight You may have noticed that people are super touchy about R+L=~J. Challenging it is like going up to some fundamentalist Christians and telling them that Jesus didn't exist. Part of the problem is that there are so many threads on the subject. Almost weekly for years. So most people have been over the theories multiple times. So they're fatigued from discussing it so much.

I think some of the responses you've received are shameful and there's no excuse for them. If I'd responded to a new poster or anyone like that I would be ashamed.

When I see a subject I'm not interested in or think is ridiculous I don't read it and don't respond. I don't know why some people feel entitled to start trolling.

R+L=D keep the dream alive brother 

Like I said in my initial response to him, this has nothing to do with R+L=J. But moreso the fact that his post consisted of inaccurate dates, and presented proofs that are in no way, shape or form backed with any textual evidence from any books. If you think it's shameful to point that out, then that's moreso your personal issue than any fault of ours. But let me guess, you probably think we're all "blinded by R+L=J". Challenge the theory all you want to, but use actual book evidence and not simple bullshit. It's been done on this forum before, has led to some pretty awesome debates. This however, was never that.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

1 hour ago, RhaegoTheUnborn said:

Like I said in my initial response to him, this has nothing to do with R+L=J. But moreso the fact that his post consisted of inaccurate dates, and presented proofs that are in no way, shape or form backed with any textual evidence from any books. If you think it's shameful to point that out, then that's moreso your personal issue than any fault of ours. But let me guess, you probably think we're all "blinded by R+L=J". Challenge the theory all you want to, but use actual book evidence and not simple bullshit. It's been done on this forum before, has led to some pretty awesome debates. This however, was never that.

[Banner Without Brothers]

2 hours ago, RhaegoTheUnborn said:

Like I said in my initial response to him, this has nothing to do with R+L=J. But moreso the fact that his post consisted of inaccurate dates, and presented proofs that are in no way, shape or form backed with any textual evidence from any books. If you think it's shameful to point that out, then that's moreso your personal issue than any fault of ours. But let me guess, you probably think we're all "blinded by R+L=J". Challenge the theory all you want to, but use actual book evidence and not simple bullshit. It's been done on this forum before, has led to some pretty awesome debates. This however, was never that.

I did say some of the responses. Neither you  or @Lyanna<3Rhaegar were rude imo. Quite the opposite you attempted to engage. So I'm not sure why you would think it was directed towards you. Some of the other responses were just toxic. The two comments after mine proved my point!

I have tried in the past to engage in the debate but was met with a similar hostility from some of the posters acting hostile towards this new user. At the end of the day it's not worth my time or effort.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

4 minutes ago, Banner Without Brothers said:

I did say some of the responses. Neither you  or @Lyanna<3Rhaegar were rude imo. Quite the opposite you attempted to engage. So I'm not sure why you would think it was directed towards you. Some of the other responses were just toxic. The two comments after mine proved my point!

I have tried in the past to engage in the debate but was met with a similar hostility from some of the posters acting hostile towards this new user. At the end of the day it's not worth my time or effort.

Sorry I didn't think you were talking about me I was just agreeing that the OP had inaccurate times & false information. I did try to engage but the OP didn't respond. I think R+L=J is most likely true but am definitely not unwilling to discuss a different theory. 

I don't agree with bullying or shaming though. I think people assume the poster is trolling & respond in kind but it still doesn't make it ok

[Banner Without Brothers]

2 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Sorry I didn't think you were talking about me I was just agreeing that the OP had inaccurate times & false information. I did try to engage but the OP didn't respond. I think R+L=J is most likely true but am definitely not unwilling to discuss a different theory. 

I don't agree with bullying or shaming though. I think people assume the poster is trolling & respond in kind but it still doesn't make it ok

Yeah I don't know why people take it all so personally and get so upset about it. People are allowed different opinions. But I definitely get the fatigue factor. I've had good debates as well and no longer have that itch to discuss it. My attitude is more like sit back wait and see and if it does turn out I'm wrong I won't lose any sleep over it. If it turns out R+L=/=J I'd want to put some of the other people in this thread on suicide watch 

[John Suburbs]

On ‎11‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 0:24 PM, Ser Insight said:

snip

So I read through it twice (and this post is really a mess; try to consolidate your thoughts in the future ) looking for the part where none of Ned's other children are legitimate. Is it that idea that Ned was already married when he married Cat, and therefore none of those children are legit? Or do we have Ned being cuckolded by a Tully-looking gentleman all these years?

If it's just the marriage thing, then illegitimacy would be in the eye of the beholder: married in front of trees = no good in the south, including the Daynes who apparently worship the 7 now; married by a septon = no good in the north, theoretically anyway, but considering all of the northern houses rally to Robb's banner, this does not seem to be an issue.

And I agree with above that the biggest hole in the Ned + Ashara theory, each and every time it comes up, is the fact that Ned never things about her, not once -- not even in the black cells as he is running through all the regrets of his life.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

4 hours ago, Banner Without Brothers said:

Yeah I don't know why people take it all so personally and get so upset about it. People are allowed different opinions. But I definitely get the fatigue factor. I've had good debates as well and no longer have that itch to discuss it. My attitude is more like sit back wait and see and if it does turn out I'm wrong I won't lose any sleep over it. If it turns out R+L=/=J I'd want to put some of the other people in this thread on suicide watch 

Oh absolutely! Some people really act like to question their beliefs regarding asoiaf is a life shattering event! 

[Bloodraven's Spider]

Ive seen people disagree with me and thats fine but no one has provided concrete evidence for R+L=J or Jon's parentage overall. I'd love to be convinced now prove it

[IceFire125]

A poster who's 5 post in (or maybe with a new name) spouting "evidence" and whom I haven't seen once in the many version of RLJ threads.

[LynnS]

 

Sorry, I can't go with RLA.  Primarily because Martin confirmed that the HoU vision is of Rhaegar, Elia and Aegon.  Rhaegar names Aegon the prince who is promised.  I doubt that he would allow the all important price to be slaughtered and then replace him with a son by Lyanna who he would then name Aegon.  More likely he tooks steps to hide his son even allowing everyone to think him dead. 

This isn't something new.  Cersei has her own plans for Tommen:

Quote

A Clash of Kings - Tyrion X

The queen intends to send Prince Tommen away." They knelt alone in the hushed dimness of the sept, surrounded by shadows and flickering candles, but even so Lancel kept his voice low. "Lord Gyles will take him to Rosby, and conceal him there in the guise of a page. They plan to darken his hair and tell everyone that he is the son of a hedge knight."

And Aegon:

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Tyrion V

"Leave off," Griff commanded, "or you will wish you had."

The dwarf ignored him. "The blue hair makes your eyes seem blue, that's good. And the tale of how you color it in honor of your dead Tyroshi mother was so touching it almost made me cry. Still, a curious man might wonder why some sellsword's whelp would need a soiled septa to instruct him in the Faith, or a chainless maester to tutor him in history and tongues. And a clever man might question why your father would engage a hedge knight to train you in arms instead of simply sending you off to apprentice with one of the free companies. It is almost as if someone wanted to keep you hidden whilst still preparing you for … what? Now, there's a puzzlement, but I'm sure that in time it will come to me. I must admit, you have noble features for a dead boy."

The boy flushed. "I am not dead."

This detail about eye color is interesting.   Tyrion also observes that Aegon's eyes are dark blue but appear purple in a certain light.

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Tyrion IV

The bacon turned crisp, the biscuits golden brown. Young Griff stumbled up onto deck yawning. "Good morrow, all." The lad was shorter than Duck, but his lanky build suggested that he had not yet come into his full growth. This beardless boy could have any maiden in the Seven Kingdoms, blue hair or no. Those eyes of his would melt them. Like his sire, Young Griff had blue eyes, but where the father's eyes were pale, the son's were dark. By lamplight they turned black, and in the light of dusk they seemed purple. His eyelashes were as long as any woman's.

Dany describes Rhaegar fom the HoU with dark indigo eyes - dark bluish-purple.

Quote

A Clash of Kings - Daenerys IV

Viserys, was her first thought the next time she paused, but a second glance told her otherwise. The man had her brother's hair, but he was taller, and his eyes were a dark indigo rather than lilac. "Aegon," he said to a woman nursing a newborn babe in a great wooden bed. "What better name for a king?"

So I'm inclined to think that Aegon is Elia's son and Jon is Lyanna's son.

And of course, Bran is another boy who is presumed dead so no one comes looking.

[Adam Yozza]

48 minutes ago, Ser Insight said:

Ive seen people disagree with me and thats fine but no one has provided concrete evidence for R+L=J or Jon's parentage overall. I'd love to be convinced now prove it

Okay. George Martin asked Benioff and Weiss who Jon's mother was when they asked permission to adapt the books. We aren't allowed to discuss it here but they pretty much confirmed it (I assume I'm allowed to say that much?)

 

[RhaegoTheUnborn]

Again, this isn't even about R+L=J, so to speak, but you simply can't reinforce BS by stating theres no elsewise proof of an opposing theory. Not to mention, there's plenty of book evidence, or hints to reinforce that opposing opinion, you just have to read. Whereas none which suggests Ned & Ashara were married, that TOJ happened in 284, or that Ned's other children are not his own, or trueborn.

[LynnS]

4 minutes ago, Adam Yozza said:

Okay. George Martin asked Benioff and Weiss who Jon's mother was when they asked permission to adapt the books. We aren't allowed to discuss it here but they pretty much confirmed it (I assume I'm allowed to say that much?)

 

Oh, it's been discussed so I wouldn't worry about it. They were asked specifically about Jon's mother.  

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

1 hour ago, Ser Insight said:

Ive seen people disagree with me and thats fine but no one has provided concrete evidence for R+L=J or Jon's parentage overall. I'd love to be convinced now prove it

Oh! That's simple enough.

See, on top of this forum, there are several threads pinned. One of them is the most recent iteration of the "R+L=J" discussion. Go there, read the evidence presented, ignore it, declare that you see none, and discuss.

You're welcome.

[Dragonsbone]

On 22.11.2017 at 6:24 PM, Ser Insight said:

This is my first post/thread on this forum so I apologize in advance if this is not in the right area. I have been browsing this community for sometime now and the overall consensus is Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. That is wrong on so many levels. Jon is the son of Ned Stark and Ashara Dayne. 

R+L=YG (A)
N+A=J

Jon Snow is not only the true born son of Ned Stark but he is the ONLY true born child of Ned Stark!!! In order to tackle this we must take a hard look at Ned's past and primarily the events of the Tourney at Harrenhal/The Tower of Joy/Roberts Rebellion.

The Tourney at Harrenhal took place at 281 AC. It is here where the seeds of Roberts Rebellion were planted. The obvious act which most people identify with the Tourney at Harrenhal is when Prince Rhaeger was crowned champion and rode past his wife Elia Martell to name Lyanna Stark Queen of Love and Beauty. Though this may appear to be the most prominent moment in the entire tourney it is not. In A Storm of Swords Meera Reed tells Bran about the Knight of the Laughing Tree; A Mystery knight who entered the list at the Tourney (Many believe it is Howland Reed Meera's and Jojens father and great friend of Ned Stark). In any event Bran interrupts her story claiming its not true nor has he ever heard this story before (he's never hear it before because Ned forbade anyone at Winterfell to speak of Ashara Dayne that includes Old Nan) Meera disregards his comment and continues to tell the story. In the story she uses code names as a means to label each individual (I will not list all the names or go into the full story as I want to stay on track of the events as it relates to Ned) The importance of the story is when Meera tells Bran that the wild wolf (Brandon stark; Neds older brother) approached Ashara Dayne to dance with Ned. Brandon was already betrothed to Catelyn Tully and was trying to help his younger brother. Ned and Ashara dance and hit it off and both fall head over heels for each other. Cant really knock Ned he's the 2nd eldest son so everything is promised to Brandon whose betrothed to Catelyn so he may as well get his dick wet with whom he wants plus she's fucking gorgeous. The Tourney ends 10 days later and everyone goes there separate ways.

An unknown time later it turns out that Rhaeger "kidnapped" Lyanna Stark who is betrothed to Robert Baratheon and shit hits the fan. No one knows exactly where Ned goes after the tourney but it is known that he has to travel north through the Mountains Of The Moon and the Vale as a means to call the banners. Just from that fact its safe to assume Ned went south somewhere with someone... Ned was with Ashara Dayne (aka Septa Lemore most likely Starfall. They were with each other for at least a year plus (Idk exactly how the westerosi calendar works but its pretty "earth" like) in that time its safe to assume Ned and Ashara fell in love and did the tango a few times. 

Now the next piece of history that we must look at is in 282. Brandon Stark is in Riverrun when the announced date of his marriage between he and Catelyn will be. Little Finger was 15 years old and being fostered at Riverrun and asks for Catelyn Tully's hand. He has a duel with Brandon Stark as a means to win her hand. Little Finger gets absolutely destroyed and almost dies from his wounds. Note Brandon Stark is in Riverrun when the wedding date is announced and after his duel with Little Finger he return north to join his fathers wedding party and promises Catelyn he will be back. On their way back to Riverrun news reaches them that Rhaeger has abducted Lyanna and rode straight to Kings Landing instead of going to Riverrun. Most people know what happened at this moment. Brandon enters the Red Keep shouts out for Rhaeger to come out and die... Instead King Aerys arrests Brandon (for plotting to kill Prince Rhaeger) demands that his father comes to Kings Landing to plead their fealty to house Targaryen and the realm. Once Rickard Stark enters the Red Keep he to is arrested and was burnt alive with wildfyre. Brandon was chained up and strangled to death as a means to save his father. This is extremely important to note because it gives a proper timeline of the events! So just a reminder:

281- Tourney of Harrenhal (Ned meets Ashara)
282- Abduction of Lyanna Stark and deaths of Rickard and Brandon Stark
282-283- Roberts Rebellion
 

After the deaths of Rickard and Brandon, Jon Arryn was told by king Aerys to bring the head of Robert Baratheon (Lyanna's betrothed) and Ned! Instead he raises the banners. At this point we know that Ned is on the way to Riverrun with Ashara to get his father's blessing to marry her, but upon hearing the news of his father/brother/sister he now changes course to make his way north to Winterfell. Here is where it gets very interesting. After crossing the mountains of the moon and the fingers he hires a fisherman to take him to White Harbor. He winds up stopping at Sisterton due to natural reasons (most likely a storm their their ship off course).

In A Dance With Dragons a Davos Chapter he is "imprisoned" in the Wolfs Den (I don't want to spend to much on the wolfs den at the moment but its basically a prison but has the luxury feel of any great castle giving Davos the thought that it isn't a prison at all but a hide out. As he was being hidden from the Freys and the Lannisters at this point. More on that another time.) They were hiding Ashara. During the chapter we get the tale of the fishermans daughter. The gentlemen being described in the story is Ned and he was with a women and baby! After he lands in White Harbor he goes to Winterfell and calls the banners to joins the rebellion. (Its very possible this child doesn't live very long and dies shortly after arriving in White Harbor). We are told immediately Jon's age (14 then 15) The first mention of Robb's age is 15 but not till 23 chapters into the book after the mention of Jon turning 15 making him the eldest and lines up ideally with the timeline! Jon couldn't be the baby born in the Tower of Joy as that takes place in 284 (Will get to that later but if your born in 284 and the current year is 300 you would be 16 not 15.) This is where is gets very tricky... Ned married Ashara at some point after the Tourney at Harrenhal!!! This is extremely important to the story and the proof is the following:

When Tywin finds out Robb marries Jeyne Westering after bedding her. Tywin tells the reader that he is his "Fathers son" perhaps a clue that Robb followed in the footsteps of his old man (Though both Robb and Ned married for Love, Ned does the right and "honorable" thing and accepts his forced marriage with Cat. If he didn't the outcome would have been death which is what Robb got). Ned's marriage with Ashara is the hardest event to prove definitively because no one knew where Ned was nor his relationship with Ashara (Ned and Ashara married in White Harbor as they have weirwoods there and believe in the old gods (this is a must remember). In A Storm of Swords Arya is captured by the brotherhood without banners and meets a boy named Edric Dayne (the lord of Starfall his aunt and uncle are Ashara/Arthur aka sword of the morning) his nickname is Ned (for Ned Stark). Erdric goes on tell Arya about Ned and Ashara's relationship and how much he was respected and loved by their entire house. Think about this for a second Ned must have been truly loved by them even after he "killed" (which I don't believe he did but that's for another day) Arthur Dayne the sword of the morning and is the cause of Ashara's "suicide" (which didn't happen either) that they willingly call the new lord of Starfall after Ned! Now Arya being Arya doesn't believe him and freaks out because what does she really know she's only a child and Ned forbade anyone of speaking about Ashara (Also the only children of Ned who is described as looking like a Stark/Ned is Jon and Arya the rest of the children have the Tully look). It's important to note why would they tell Edric this story if it were untrue? Also he mentions how he wanted to talk to Ned when he saw him in KL but was so nervous that he didn't.  At this point Ned reaches Winterfell leaving Ashara at White Harbor and is waiting for his banner-men to come so they can join forces with Robert/Jon/Hoster and wins the Battle of the Bells.
 

We have to note that the Lannisters have not called their banners for either side and without another major house on there side Ned/Robert/Jon are toast. In steps Lord Hoster Tully and the worst woman in the entire series Catelyn Tully. As a means to join the fight Hoster Demands Ned to marry Catelyn in his brothers place and Jon to Marry Lysa. In the midst of a rebellion Ned and Co don't exactly have time on their side and he is forced into his marriage with Cat. When these negotiations were taking place it is said the rift between The Blackfish and his older brother and liege lord begin. After these negotiations The Blackfish took his own sigil and left house Tully to give his service to House Arryn and became the knight of the gate in the Vale. Hoster had Southron Ambitions and wanted to improve his house' rank through marriage and politics. Blackfish clearly didn't want to force Ned's hand but there was nothing he can do. Ned marries Cat in the sept at Riverrun in the EYES OF THE SEVEN. This is very important because Ned is marrying twice without getting the first one annulled or Hoster straight up doesn't care and mind that he is already married. Moreover Ned and all northerners don't accept the 7 as their gods They only accept the old gods and marriages in the North must be done in front of a Weirwood. Ned even makes a comment how he has shamed all of his family (On a side note while in KL Ned makes a comment how he hasn't thought of Rhaegar in years. If you were raising the son of a fallen prince who happens to be your nephew as well you would probably think of his father very frequently But since Jon is his own blood..) Why did he shame his family (especially since he doesn't really have any at this point except for Ashara and possibly Jon) He married in front of the 7 which isn't accepted in the North and he technically has 2 wives so that could bring on some shame. After this Prince Rhaeger emerges out of no where and loses the Battle of the Trident and Tywin sacks Kings Landing. This ultimately concluded the rebellion at the end of 283. However their is still the siege at Storms End. Robert orders Ned to break the siege and successfully does so. At this point Ned is searching for Lyanna and happens to go precisely to the Tower of Joy. 

281- Tourney at Harrenhal
282- Abduction of Lyanna and deaths of Rickard and Brandon
282-283- Roberts Rebellion
283- Robb Stark born at Riverrun
284- Tower of Joy
Somewhere in these years Ned married Ashara and had Jon in late 283 or even very early 284 (most likely in mid-late 283 Jon was born)

After the siege at Storms End Ned travels towards Dorne and comes upon the Tower of Joy. Which is literally in the middle of no where. Someone must have told Ned to travel near here (my bet is Varys or Pycelle but no one really knows. Most likely Varys though. You just can't let the fact that out of the entire realm Ned by chance stumbles upon the location of his sister. Something doesn't add up...Varys going all the way >>>) Ned and company arrive at the Tower of Joy and see 3 members of the Kingsguard Ser Oswell Whent Ser Athur Dayne and the Lord Commander Ser Gerold Hightower. First off as readers we have to note that 3 of the best fighters in the entire world are just casually outside of this random tower and not hiding or inside. The 3 of them could have easily defeated Ned and his entire company if they were positioned properly. I don't know why they would just be hanging around outside especially if they're protecting the Princes' pregnant mistress/girlfriend. Ned said he defeated Arthur Dayne NOT KILLED. This is a huge distinction that we must make. If Ned killed him or Howland Reed Ned would have said he was killed in the fighting not defeated! Arthur Dayne is still alive and he is Mance Rayder! Anyway Ned and Co get into a dispute with the Kingsguard and everyone is killed except Howland Reed and Ned (The Kingsguard members didn't die and are alive and well.) Why did they fight? When Ned and Co reach the TOJ and talk with the 3 Kingsguard they have a huge fight. Why? Arthur Dayne is one of the most revered, respected, noble men in the entire world and just found out that his sisters lover just married another women, knocked up his sister, and is about to set her aside to never see her again or the child they had together. Well Arthur didn't take the news so well and just snapped and drew is sword. Not only did Ned just break his sisters heart/take her maidenhood/ leave her with a child/ never see her again he also helped get his best friend (Rhaegar) killed. They fight, Arthur blows of some steam and the Kingsguard protects their brother. 

Ned Runs up the stairs to his dying sister and there he see's her in her pool of blood and a new born baby and a wet nurse! There was another person with Lyanna she was most likely the girl we know as Wylla. Edric Dayne says to Arya that Wylla was Jons mother and or wet nurse (The meaning of Wylla means wife aka Ashara...) Anyway Ned see's his sister and she says to him to promise to watch out for her baby boy. There's only one major issue. He is the spitting image of Rhaeger and has full blown Targ Traits. The platinum white blonde hair the blue purple lilac color eyes. Ned knowing Robert and his current mission to kill every Targaryen isn't going to be very thrilled that the women he loves and is betrothed to just gave birth to a replica of Rhaeger. 

In a Dance with Dragons Tyrion is shipped off to Pentos via Varys to escape the clutches of his family. Tyrion being the witty little drunk that he is discovers a very special someone during his travels through the free cities on his way to Mereen. But before we move on any further Rhaeger's son (with Elia Martell), Aegon was born in either 281 or 282 making him either 18 or 19 by the start of A Dance With Dragons... When Tywin sacked Kings Landing Aegon claims that Varys switched baby Aegon out with another and that he was shipped off the narrow sea to safety as was being groomed his entire life to be the rightful King but more importantly a good King who rules for his people and not for one self... I think its safe to assume baby Aegon was killed by Tywin and Varys knows that... And this Aegon is truly the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna not Elia he just doesn't know that.

Anyway Tyrion is on his way to meet Danny and he is on a ship called the Shy Maid with a Sell Sword going by the name of Griff and his son Young Griff. Another sellsword named Duck a Septa named Lemore (who is most likely  Ashara Dayne as Tyrion points out she has stretch marks from a previous birth...) and a rhyonish couple helping them navigate the waters (Just some more IAF history Young Griff and Egg from the Dunk and Egg tales are the only 2 characters that have a floppy brim straw hat and a knight/guard. Egg has a Dunk so why not give Aegon a Duck. These 2 characteristics can't be thrown out the window both are wearing the same straw hat using a alias and are accompanied on their journey with a sellsword/knight who eventually become the first of their kingsguard....) The first thing Tyrion lets us know is that the boy is about 15/16 (there is a drastic difference between a 15/16 year old and a 18/19 year old) (15/16 fits ideally with the timeline and the Tower of Joy. He would be 16 at the time of ADWD the age Tyrion puts Aegon's age). The tower of Joy scenes we get from Ned are during his fever dreams (he was drugged up on milk of the poppy (if anybody has a vile of that let me know). and his dreams don't depict the truth of the situation. George has even said It's a fever dream and that doesn't mean its 100% accurate.

Tyrion who is going by the nickname Hugor Hill or Yollo finally pieces everything out. After having some wine and a few games of cyvasse it comes to him... Why does a son of a sell sword need 1) a body guard 2) a arms trainer 3) a septa... Tyrion notices these don't exactly add up along with his looks. Late we get from a Jon connington chapter that Aegon is the spitting image of Rhaeger and nearly says the same exact words Rhaegar said to him about his lands. This Young Griff impostor even has dyed his hair blue "in memory" of his Tyroshi mother. The only woman in the world of ice and fire whose associated with the color blue is Lyanna Stark... Anyway Tyrion being his witty self calls out Young Griff for who he really is and his companions... It turns out that Griff is the exile lord Jon Connington (the dumbass who lost the battle of the bells because he didn't check the brothels....) Young Griff is Aegon (please note that Aegon and Tyrion himself think he's the rightful heir and son of Rhaeger Targaryen and Elia Martell and not Lyanna Stark (He would be 3/4 years older if he was the "real" Aegon. After spending sometime with Tyrion he is finally convinced to head to Westeros without his "aunt" and not come to her as a beggar... I don't want to spend to much time on Young Griff's story and future so ill stop here on that. So back to the TOJ.

Ned promises Lyanna he will take care of her boy. After Lyanna kicks the bucket and Ned has figured out what to do with this baby who is the spitting image of Rhaeger he rides to Starfall with baby Aegon... Ashara left White Harbor at some point to come home and stay away from the fighting it is here where we get the most remarkable father like son baby swap!!! Ned claims to have returned to Starfall to bring back the ancestral sword Dawn of House Dayne. It his here where Ned see's Ashara with baby Jon and Ashara see's baby Aegon with Ned. Ned swaps Aegon for Jon. (Cercei even mentions this "stolen baby" to Ned during their encounter when Ned calls her children out for being Jaime's. We must also remember the only time Ned truly gets angry or mad is when someone brings up Ashara) This swap solves all the troubles Ned would encounter if he took Aegon home. He wouldn't have to worry about hiding a Targaryen from his best friend and future king and he knows Ashara will look after Aegon as they loved each other. History tells us Ashara threw herself off the roof of the castle and killed herself because the grief was to much for her to bear that her lover killed her brother... Ashara crossed the narrow sea with baby Aegon with limited people knowing (ned/varys (possibly)/howland reed(possibly/connington) Jon has done the baby swap as well & both babies that were swapped have the blood of House Dayne in their veins (Father like son)... Ned returns to Winterfell with baby Jon and the rest is history. All of these events fit the timeline and has George's fingerprints all over. A real "fake" Aegon is the perfect twist... So lets just Recap:

281: Need meets Ashara at the Tourney at Harrenhal
282- Abduction of Lyanna and deaths of Rickard and Brandon
282-283- Roberts Rebellion
283- Robb Stark born at Riverrun
284- Tower of Joy

Ned marries Ashara at some point in White Harbor thus making Jon his only true born child and eldest child! 

For all you R+L=J Supporters a few questions...
What would this do for this story? Everyone vying for the throne would literally have to throw in the towel if that were the case. How would that play out? Stannis would dismiss it and pretend he never heard it. Cercei wouldn't believe it and drink some more wine. Dany & Aegon would also dismiss it as well as their claim is hurt by Jon's. Also think about how people would react when they find out how he learned this...

Bran who would now be his cousin traveled on the back of Hodor with 2 crannogmen (who are the least respected people in Westeros) to beyond the wall. Beyond the wall they met Bloodraven in a cave who is around 120 years old and attached to a tree. Bloodraven taught Bran how to see the past through Weirwood trees. Yea I don't think this is a very believable story even if it was true and Howland Reed came out from wherever he was to back up Jon's claim.

Jon has no dragon dreams which is a common Targaryen trait. The closest thing to "dragons" Jon is aligned with is the constellation the Ice Dragon. Moreover, Jon is most heavily correlated with "Dawn." The Battle for the Dawn and the legendary sword of House Dayne, Dawn. He is the sword of the morning come again. Jon being the true son of Ned and Ashara add's more to the story than Jon being the son of Rhaegar and Lyannas. Winterfell is truly his (not to mention Robb made Jon his heir in his will). And all of Ned's children with Cat are technically bastards. Cat's biggest fear was Jon taking what is "rightfully" her children's. Jon's entire upbringing had to do with his mother not his father and his struggle of not being a true Stark and part of the family. And with that said here is the proper timeline of Roberts Rebellion (Through Ned & Ashara. Remember Ned was bringing Ashara with him to Brandon's wedding to ask his father for his permission to marry her):

283: Jon Arryn calls the banners
- Ned goes through the mountains and fingers (roughly 26-31 days about 470-570 miles)
- Ned than takes a fishing boat to Sisterton (roughly 15 days about 590-650 miles)
- Ned takes a boat to White Harbor (roughly 4 days about 420 miles)
- Ned rides or takes boat upriver to Winterfell (roughly 10 days 630 miles) (He leaves Ashara in White Harbor. Most likely being hidden in the Wolfs Den)
- Ned waits for his banner men to arrive at least 41 days (It is at this time Ned probably made a trip back to White Harbor to spend time with Ashara while he waits for his banner men. They do the tango a few times and she becomes pregnant with Jon.)
- Ned and Co march south to the crossing to meet Jon Arryn (roughly 83 days about 16650 miles)
- Ned Marches to Riverrun (about 24 days 470 miles)
- Ned rides to Stoney Sept (Battle of the Bells) to save Robert (about 8 days roughly 280 miles)
- Ned marches back to Riverrun to Marry Cat (about 10-14 days roughly 280 miles)
- Battle of the Trident 130 days later
- Dany is conceived prior to the sack of Kings Landing
- Sack of KL about 15 days later
- Jon is born (within a month of Dany's conception)

Welcome to the forum. And Congratulation for the worst tinfoil that has probably ever been writen. It is so bad, it could be a reddit subpost.

On 22.11.2017 at 6:24 PM, Ser Insight said:

Accept it. Jon is Ned's. Aegon is Legit and Cercei is a dumb whore.

Wow. You do not only write bad fanfiction but you are also very arrogant. We just have to accept it, after you came along and gave us irrefutable proof. 

 

On 22.11.2017 at 9:23 PM, Ser Insight said:

Aegon is legit your all blinded with R+L=J

Sounds legit. Case closed I guess. Are you sure, you wanted to come here and not on the commentary function of 9GAG?

[Ygrain]

4 hours ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

Oh! That's simple enough.

See, on top of this forum, there are several threads pinned. One of them is the most recent iteration of the "R+L=J" discussion. Go there, read the evidence presented, ignore it, declare that you see none, and discuss.

You're welcome.

Ditto.

 

[Adam Yozza]

8 hours ago, LynnS said:

Oh, it's been discussed so I wouldn't worry about it. They were asked specifically about Jon's mother.  

Yes they were. But they gave an answer and based on their answer, George decided to give them the rights to make the adaptation. We can assume therefore that their theory on Jon's mother is the correct one. So they answered mother correctly. Those who watch the show know who D&D think Jon's mother is and from that we can speculate the father; only one character both makes sense, is satisfying narratively and actually has an impact on the story.

I'll accept there is a slim chance Jon is not Rhaegar's (as in I'm 99% convinced he is) but there is 0 chance his mother is anyone but Lyanna.

[maudisdottir]

1 hour ago, Adam Yozza said:

We can assume therefore that their theory on Jon's mother is the correct one.

From George's Rolling Stone interview:

Quote

Did they get it right?
They answered correctly. 

http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/george-r-r-martin-outtakes-from-the-rolling-stone-interview-20140428

[The Fattest Leech]

1 hour ago, maudisdottir said:

From George's Rolling Stone interview:

http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/george-r-r-martin-outtakes-from-the-rolling-stone-interview-20140428

That is still a rather sly answer. 

[JNR]

43 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

That is still a rather sly answer.

Yes, it is.

It's probably true that there is only one answer that the majority of online fans would currently find "satisfying" or "relevant to the story."

However, unlike us, GRRM knows the entire story, which puts his concept of satisfaction or relevance in a fundamentally different ballpark from ours.