litechick Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 13 hours ago, Kalbear said: there is basically no sign at all that men in general cannot control their urges once they are given incentive to do so. It's like you didn't understand the bit you quoted and didn't even read the rest. 9 hours ago, Toth said: I never, ever felt the urge to 'relieve myself' or something. Sure, it could be me that is wrong in the head, after all my utter lack of interest in sexual activities leads me to the conclusion that I'm asexual, but if being heterosexual means such a ludicrous lack of control just by being around the other sex, then I sure as hell don't want to be heterosexual! Right, so as an asexual person you can't understand compulsive sexual behavior. Many heterosexual people also cannot understand it. Just because I don't understand it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist or that I should be dismissive to someone who is struggling with it. Here is the Louis CK bit I referenced: I don't know what that is like. I feel fortunate that I don't. It would be the easiest thing in the world to dismiss it. "Your big problem in life is a raging need to have an orgasm? Boo-fucking-hoo." But I can't watch that clip and not feel sorry for the guy and I don't think there's anything wrong with sympathy.* *to sympathize, not to excuse. Crimes need to be punished but we should still try to understand why the crime was committed and figure out if there's anything we can do to reduce it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 1 hour ago, litechick said: It's like you didn't understand the bit you quoted and didn't even read the rest. No, I got it. I just disagree, and there's very little evidence supporting that this is particularly pervasive throughout all men, or it is something that women cannot possibly understand. And I'm a man, and I'm not asexual, and my experience is that it really isn't insanely hard to stop, ya know, masturbating in front of women on a regular basis. I don't know a single man who does this. I don't know of a single man who has even been accused of doing this, save famous ones. The obvious conclusion is not that 'all men are barely able to stop jerking off in front of women'; it's that famous men can get away with doing some fairly horrible things. And if you reduce that incentive - either by believing women who say that the guy jerked off in front of them, or by actually telling them to knock it off and not supporting their career - you'll find it incredible how magically these famous people stop jerking off quite so much. 1 hour ago, litechick said: Here is the Louis CK bit I referenced: I don't know what that is like. I feel fortunate that I don't. It would be the easiest thing in the world to dismiss it. "Your big problem in life is a raging need to have an orgasm? Boo-fucking-hoo." But I can't watch that clip and not feel sorry for the guy and I don't think there's anything wrong with sympathy.* *to sympathize, not to excuse. Crimes need to be punished but we should still try to understand why the crime was committed and figure out if there's anything we can do to reduce it. Sure, go ahead - but don't make Louis CK your example of a typical male, any more than you'd make someone asexual an example of your typical male. Even the outspoken men who say how horny they are in this thread don't appear to have a major problem with not jerking off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 1 minute ago, Kalbear said: And I'm a man, and I'm not asexual, and my experience is that it really isn't insanely hard to stop, ya know, masturbating in front of women on a regular basis. In my experience it's insanely hard to start masturbating in front of a woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toth Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 3 hours ago, litechick said: Right, so as an asexual person you can't understand compulsive sexual behavior. Many heterosexual people also cannot understand it. Just because I don't understand it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist or that I should be dismissive to someone who is struggling with it. Kalbear already said everything I wanted to say. I just add this: If a grown ass man (I specifically exclude a boy in puberty, even though my own puberty experience obviously wasn't influencing my train of thought when it comes to girls either) is not able to concentrate in workplace situations because he can't stop thinking about humping his co-workers, then he has a psychological problem! A problem that won't go away by giving in to the desire and 'wanking off' in some dark corner. He needs professional help! Not insane attempts to normalize his problems and project them onto all men. I phrased my question to all 'man'-kind as a question because I was just stumped that you think all men are like this. Because even though I am likely asexual and don't care much about the subject, I still get irritated and offended when people go under the assumption that all men are rabid beasts who can't control their base urges. No matter my own background, I deny that concept! Because I just find it toxic and utterly unhelpful to improving society as a whole. It's just giving in to an utterly ridiculous stereotype! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isis Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 5 minutes ago, Toth said: Kalbear already said everything I wanted to say. Yes, really. I don't think there is an inherent lack of sympathy with someone who has a problem which they need help with (so long as they aren't abusing anyone else) but let's not extrapolate from there to suggesting that the majority of men (+/- women) are unable to function properly in their work on a regular basis because of their rabid sexual urges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eggegg Posted December 5, 2017 Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 12 minutes ago, Isis said: Yes, really. I don't think there is an inherent lack of sympathy with someone who has a problem which they need help with (so long as they aren't abusing anyone else) but let's not extrapolate from there to suggesting that the majority of men (+/- women) are unable to function properly in their work on a regular basis because of their rabid sexual urges. who said that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toth Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 11 minutes ago, Eggegg said: who said that? litechick. In the post you thanked. He may have talked about 'some' men, but expanded it quickly to cultures and society and that we need to accept it as normal, making it clearly sound like an integral problem to men instead of just a minority of people with an odd disorder who need real help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eggegg Posted December 5, 2017 Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 3 hours ago, Toth said: litechick. In the post you thanked. He may have talked about 'some' men, but expanded it quickly to cultures and society and that we need to accept it as normal, making it clearly sound like an integral problem to men instead of just a minority of people with an odd disorder who need real help. Yeah thats not how I read what SHE wrote. I think that is simply your interpretation and putting things together. Either way I think there is something in the theory than mens sex drives in general lead them to do things they absolutely would not do if they were thinking logically. I made a flippant comment about 'having a wank', and its a common joke amongst me and my friends that the only time our brains ever work clearly is the 15 minutes after a quick shuffle, its at that point you can see how ridiculous you are being. That absolutely doesn't mean that men cannot control themselves or are rabid sex monsters, this is completely separate to those people who have some sort of compulsive disorder that means they lack control. Sex however does seem to be a major driver in mens life in a way that I'm not sure women can ever understand. It might be the main reason men do anything in fact. btw, I totally missed the link that @litechick posted, and while Cracked has become some sort of unironic progressive mouthpiece these days it does pump out the occasionally good article, and I quite liked this one as it gives a reasonably honest male perspective that you wouldn't really hear many people talking about. I'll repost it. http://www.cracked.com/article_19785_5-ways-modern-men-are-trained-to-hate-women.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 How is sex drive affecting one's judgement: - different for men than for women? If you think that women simply can't ever understand that issue, I have some news for you about the women in your life. - different from hunger or tiredness or greed affecting it? Adults are expected to cope with all of those drives, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
litechick Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 One, two, three, all missing the point. I thought that I had covered this with the analogy that 'everybody sometimes gets a headache but some people have migraines' but I guess not. I would never enter a conversation about breastfeeding and say "Not all women breastfeed. I manage to go through the day without breastfeeding and it's ridiculous to suggest that accommodations need to be made for that." It should be possible for someone to suggest that a portion of the population suffers from the condition LCK describes and suggest that even if we don't understand it, we should consider it and how we can improve the situation. 8 hours ago, Kalbear said: No, I got it....'all men are barely able to stop jerking off in front of women' If reading my post led you to paraphrase my point with this fabrication, then you didn't get it. I'm not going to argue with you about it because you don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 18 hours ago, Toth said: ... What? ... I've read your post several times to ensure that you were really saying what I think you are saying and I'm still quite confused. I... I can't be the only one who doesn't consider this a 'personal need' at all, can I? I'm serious here, everything you've been describing strikes me as genuinely alien. Especially when it comes to workplace situations. Due to the gender-imbalance of one of my subjects and pure chance in the other one I tend to work quite a lot with women, women of my age, not exactly unattractive women, and I never, ever felt the urge to 'relieve myself' or something. Sure, it could be me that is wrong in the head, after all my utter lack of interest in sexual activities leads me to the conclusion that I'm asexual, but if being heterosexual means such a ludicrous lack of control just by being around the other sex, then I sure as hell don't want to be heterosexual! I think it's fair to call sexual release a personal need. Not a compulsive one. Once it reaches compulsive levels, there is a medical issue that needs to be discussed and treated by a doctor and/or therapist. Having a desire and acting on that desire are two different things. I'm going to repeat, despite what some posters claim, men are capable of controlling their penis. They can. It's a fact. If they have a compulsion that prevents them from controlling their penis, there's a doctor for that. Or a jail cell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eggegg Posted December 5, 2017 Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 20 minutes ago, mormont said: How is sex drive affecting one's judgement: - different for men than for women? If you think that women simply can't ever understand that issue, I have some news for you about the women in your life. - different from hunger or tiredness or greed affecting it? Adults are expected to cope with all of those drives, after all. - I don't believe women will ever know what it is like to be a man any more than men will know what its like to be a woman. So no. - Most adults are incredibly awful at combating tiredness or hunger. If adults had excellent impulse control we'd all look like atheletes with single digit body fat. Unfortunately most people are absolute slaves to their impulses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baxus Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 2 minutes ago, Eggegg said: - Most adults are incredibly awful at combating tiredness or hunger. If adults had excellent impulse control we'd all look like atheletes with single digit body fat. Unfortunately most people are absolute slaves to their impulses. You seem to be confusing eating unhealthy and not working out with having to eat the very moment you feel hungry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 9 minutes ago, litechick said: One, two, three, all missing the point. I thought that I had covered this with the analogy that 'everybody sometimes gets a headache but some people have migraines' but I guess not. Those who suffer migraines are encouraged to seek out medical help because migraines aren't normal. Quote I would never enter a conversation about breastfeeding and say "Not all women breastfeed. I manage to go through the day without breastfeeding and it's ridiculous to suggest that accommodations need to be made for that." Breastfeeding isn't masturbating. Semen or vaginal lube and milk aren't the same. Period. Seek medical help if you think they are. Quote It should be possible for someone to suggest that a portion of the population suffers from the condition LCK describes and suggest that even if we don't understand it, we should consider it and how we can improve the situation. Sure, there are some who suffer from sexual compulsions. Again, medical help and/or jail cell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eggegg Posted December 5, 2017 Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 1 minute ago, Dr. Pepper said: Having a desire and acting on that desire are two different things. I'm going to repeat, despite what some posters claim, men are capable of controlling their penis. They can. It's a fact. If they have a compulsion that prevents them from controlling their penis, there's a doctor for that. Or a jail cell. Depends what you mean by controlling their penises? If you mean they don't just whip it out everywhere they go then yeah, most men can control that, thats a compulsion. However I'd say most men struggle with fidelity, probably look at porn far more than they'd like, have done silly things because 'their cock was controlling their brain' and are highly driven by the desire to sleep with beautiful women ( even if that never happens to most of us) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 1 minute ago, Eggegg said: - I don't believe women will ever know what it is like to be a man any more than men will know what its like to be a woman. So no. This is not answering the question, really. For a start, both men and women are human beings and in addition, both experience sexual desire. So is there something about male sexual desire that leads you to believe that it has a bigger influence on behaviour, and/or is harder to control? If so, what is it? If not, then what point were you trying to make above? Quote - Most adults are incredibly awful at combating tiredness or hunger. If adults had excellent impulse control we'd all look like atheletes with single digit body fat. Unfortunately most people are absolute slaves to their impulses. We're not discussing weight issues, though. Those are not related to the question at hand, which is how various psychological or biological drives might make us act badly towards other people, and whether sexual desire is a special case. You seem to be agreeing that it is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 3 minutes ago, Eggegg said: Depends what you mean by controlling their penises? If you mean they don't just whip it out everywhere they go then yeah, most men can control that, thats a compulsion. However I'd say most men struggle with fidelity, probably look at porn far more than they'd like, have done silly things because 'their cock was controlling their brain' and are highly driven by the desire to sleep with beautiful women ( even if that never happens to most of us) Your. Cock. Does. Not. Control. Your. Brain. That's not how the body works!!! For fuck's sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Week Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Just now, Eggegg said: You. do. not. have. a. cock. #notallcocks ... #notanycocks --> #anatomy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 1 minute ago, Eggegg said: You. do. not. have. a. cock. You. Do. Not. Have. A. Basic. Understanding. Of. Biology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eggegg Posted December 5, 2017 Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 3 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said: You. Do. Not. Have. A. Basic. Understanding. Of. Biology. Simply put, you are commenting on what its like to be a man, despite not being a man. You should bow out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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