Eggegg

Men. Men. Men.

401 posts in this topic

7 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

See, this is Victorian age thinking right there. That is I believe what TP was talking about.

So basically we have to say that men and women have identical sex drives, or we will have our arguments dismissed as "Victorian"? 

That isn't really what Victorian age thinking represents, by the way, that's characterised by excessive prudishness. People in the Victorian age did not think "men naturally need to masturbate", quite the opposite, they were absolutely obsessed with stopping it. Look up Kellog, he was against it to an almost psychotic level. 

Kal, your argument is based on a falsehood, he did nothing illegal. Look it up. What is illegal is "indecent exposure"- but you have to be deliberately trying to shock others. Obviously it'll be against office rules, but that's very different.

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18 hours ago, mormont said:

The point was, is the experience of being a man in some way different or incomprehensible to a woman in this respect? If so, how and why?

This wasn't directed to me, but there is a simple answer to this question: testosterone.

I was never able to experience the "women's side", but a lot of transsexual people have actually experienced this difference. And the stories from people transitioning from women to men report a significant increase of sexual desire simultaneous with testosterone injections. Similar experience has been reported with men who started using testosterone boosters.

Here is a good link to listen to about this subject: https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/220/testosterone?act=2#play

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2 hours ago, mankytoes said:

So basically we have to say that men and women have identical sex drives, or we will have our arguments dismissed as "Victorian"? 

That isn't really what Victorian age thinking represents, by the way, that's characterised by excessive prudishness. People in the Victorian age did not think "men naturally need to masturbate", quite the opposite, they were absolutely obsessed with stopping it. Look up Kellog, he was against it to an almost psychotic level. 

Kal, your argument is based on a falsehood, he did nothing illegal. Look it up. What is illegal is "indecent exposure"- but you have to be deliberately trying to shock others. Obviously it'll be against office rules, but that's very different.

Kellogg is a terrible example for your argument; he literally believed the drive to masturbate was so naturally powerful it had to be controlled by diet.

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16 hours ago, Liffguard said:

This got me wondering, is toxic masculinity composed of inherently toxic traits, or is it taking traits that are healthy in moderation to an unhealthy extreme? At another point in the book Webb talks about how he struggled to reconcile that it's possible to be strong and active without being domineering and aggressive, or that you can be kind and well-mannered without being docile.

Ultimately, one of Webb's main points (so far as I am in the book) is the conceptions of masculinity and femininity aren't particularly useful, and that trying to redefine masculinity into a more healthy form is still just perpetuating an idea that men are expected to act a certain way. Positive personality traits stand as positive on their own merits regardless of the genitals (or personal identity) of those who exhibit them, and the same is true for negative traits.

 

I think everyone should have the freedom to behave and be who they want to be, and giving kids the choice and not forcing them into distinct roles is definitely a good idea. They should all be encouraged to excel in what they want and shouldn't be discriminated against if they don't really seem to fit into a tightly defined label. 

At the same time I don't believe in treating everyone in the exact same way, and I'd say that boys and girls in general would probably be attracted to certain behaviours and activities purely due to their sex. The nature vs nurture debate doesn't fall down 100% on either side and opinions change on it every year, but nature plays some part. 

I think encouraging everyone to have those positive personality traits is a good idea, and some sort of structure is useful too, boys in particular I think need that element of structure early on.

1 hour ago, Gorn said:

This wasn't directed to me, but there is a simple answer to this question: testosterone.

I was never able to experience the "women's side", but a lot of transsexual people have actually experienced this difference. And the stories from people transitioning from women to men report a significant increase of sexual desire simultaneous with testosterone injections. Similar experience has been reported with men who started using testosterone boosters.

Here is a good link to listen to about this subject: https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/220/testosterone?act=2#play

I think there are plenty of studies that show a link to testosterone and sex drive, although the relationship is complex and not always totally direct. Certainly having low levels of testosterone in men can cause a loss of libido, but it has a number of other negative effects on the body too. There are a number of studies that suggest Testosterone in men has dropped over the generations, I'm not sure how much I can take from those studies however.

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Kalbear, I would appreciate it if you stopped trying to paraphrase my argument.  You didn't understand my argument, you cannot restate it with accuracy.

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2 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

Allow we to use one of my infamous emoji only responses: :ack:

No... No it's begun! The Feminist Hivemind...it's TAKEN WE! TELL WE... WHAT DO YOU SEE?

Edited by Let's Get Kraken

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5 hours ago, litechick said:

Kalbear, I would appreciate it if you stopped trying to paraphrase my argument.  You didn't understand my argument, you cannot restate it with accuracy.

I quoted your argument. @litechick If you don't want me to quote your argument, don't make the argument as quoted. You're the one who mentioned Louis CK as an example of the male sex drive. You're the one who asked whether or not women could even understand the male sex drive based on your anecdote. 

If that wasn't your argument, you didn't do it well. I suspect it was your argument and you don't like being called on the mat for making obviously poor statements which are easily refuted with many, many studies.

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10 hours ago, mankytoes said:

Kal, your argument is based on a falsehood, he did nothing illegal. Look it up. What is illegal is "indecent exposure"- but you have to be deliberately trying to shock others. Obviously it'll be against office rules, but that's very different.

Simply having porn on his work computer is probably not illegal. Using work resources to masturbate in a public location almost certainly is against the law if provable in some way, especially if he knows he has any STDs. In the US that would fall under criminal negligence. 

Not that being against the law is really the point; the point is that he was either willing to risk quite a bit to indulge in this, knowing it was very much against the rules and norms, and had to do it - or he risked basically nothing because he knew he would get away with it due to his station and power. Neither are good things. Both are examples of fairly heavy deviancy, even if 'looking at porn' is not. 

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Well I read the first post. Then I clicked through the last few pages and now you're discussing jacking off at work? I'm going to have to go against the flow here and go back to something in the first post - it got me interested in checking out the differences between male and female suicide rates in my country. Holy fuck the difference in the amount is enormous across all age groups. I'm guessing there's research into the reasons. Does anyone have anything legit at hand they could point me to?

I knew there was a difference, but I had always assumed it would be say 20 deaths per 100 000 people for men versus like 15 for women. But it's more like 24 vs 6. That's huge.

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Kal's had to do some surprisingly heavy lifting here on the "don't masturbate to porn on your company issued laptop while at work" front. It's kind of amazing.

Edited by DanteGabriel

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24 minutes ago, akh said:

Well I read the first post. Then I clicked through the last few pages and now you're discussing jacking off at work? I'm going to have to go against the flow here and go back to something in the first post - it got me interested in checking out the differences between male and female suicide rates in my country. Holy fuck the difference in the amount is enormous across all age groups. I'm guessing there's research into the reasons. Does anyone have anything legit at hand they could point me to?

I knew there was a difference, but I had always assumed it would be say 20 deaths per 100 000 people for men versus like 15 for women. But it's more like 24 vs 6. That's huge.

One study I read (cannot find at the moment) suggested that men are more successful.  That the rates of attempt are about even, but men are FAR more likely to use a firearm vs. blade or medication and therefore more likely to be successful.

As to the rest of this thread, it never occurred to me to wonder what men talked about when women aren't around.  Really glad I've given that line of inquiry as little of my time as I have.  :stillsick:

Edited by Lily Valley

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8 minutes ago, Lily Valley said:

One study I read (cannot find at the moment) suggested that men are more successful.  That the rates of attempt are about even, but men are FAR more likely to use a firearm vs. blade or medication and therefore more likely to be successful.

As to the rest of this thread, it never occurred to me to wonder what men talked about when women aren't around.  Really glad I've given that line of inquiry as little of my time as I have.  :stillsick:

Yes what I read suggested that women are more likely to use the attempt as a cry for help.

One theory is that there is a strong correlation between male suicide rates and the individualistic nature of the society in which they live:

"In 2003, a group of sociologists examined the gender and suicide gap by considering how cultural factors impacted suicide rates. The four cultural factors; power-difference, individualism, uncertainty avoidance, and masculinity, were measured for 66 countries using data from the World Health Organization.[Cultural beliefs regarding individualism were most closely tied to the gender gap; countries that placed a higher value on individualism showed higher rates of male suicide. Power-difference, defined as the social separation of people based on finances or status, was negatively correlated with suicide. However, countries with high levels of power-difference had higher rates of female suicide.The study ultimately found that stabilizing cultural factors had a stronger effect on suicide rates for women than men."

I guess there might something in that, you could say that in a society where men are really lacking any sort of purpose and direction, and have little meaning in their lives, its hard to see what there is to live for. Previously they might have stayed alive due to responsibilities to others, but if they don't have those then maybe the decision is easier for them

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20 minutes ago, Eggegg said:

I guess there might something in that, you could say that in a society where men are really lacking any sort of purpose and direction, and have little meaning in their lives, its hard to see what there is to live for. Previously they might have stayed alive due to responsibilities to others, but if they don't have those then maybe the decision is easier for them

What society is this now?

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3 minutes ago, Week said:

What society is this now?

Western individualistic societies

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25 minutes ago, Eggegg said:

I guess there might something in that, you could say that in a society where men are really lacking any sort of purpose and direction, and have little meaning in their lives, its hard to see what there is to live for. Previously they might have stayed alive due to responsibilities to others, but if they don't have those then maybe the decision is easier for them

Just now, Eggegg said:

Western individualistic societies

When? Where? At what point did suddenly men America, Britain, Canada, etc. lose purpose, direction, and meaning in their lives? You seem to be making the argument that men require women to marry them and stay at home in order to have responsibilities that, in turn, give meaning to their lives. Is this what you are saying?

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10 minutes ago, Week said:

What society is this now?

Trump country.

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3 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Trump country.

We should be so lucky

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6 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Trump country.

I thought that bigotry, misogyny, and xenophobia was sufficient raison d'etre for deplorables in Trump country.

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