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Non Believers: I'm What's Called a Pessimist


Martell Spy

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Please be respectful if you post here.

I'm jealous of the Christian thread, so I figured I'd try to start a thread about non believers. Atheists and the like. So, some questions to get things started.

!. What type of non believer are you? How do you define it? I'm sure I don't know all the terms that are out there, so I'd be interested. (I used to consider myself agnostic and now I consider myself an atheist)

2. Did you ever believe? (I did not)

3. Were you ever part of a faith? (My parents were Jehovah Witnesses, but I never really got into it. I found the meetings boring)

4. Do you tell anyone you are a non? Are you a combative non? (I rarely tell anyone because I'm a careful person)

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3 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

Please be respectful if you post here.

I'm jealous of the Christian thread, so I figured I'd try to start a thread about non believers. Atheists and the like. So, some questions to get things started.

!. What type of non believer are you? How do you define it? I'm sure I don't know all the terms that are out there, so I'd be interested. (I used to consider myself agnostic and now I consider myself an atheist)

2. Did you ever believe? (I did not)

3. Were you ever part of a faith? (My parents were Jehovah Witnesses, but I never really got into it. I found the meetings boring)

4. Do you tell anyone you are a non? Are you a combative non? (I rarely tell anyone because I'm a careful person)

1. I'm an atheist, but I prefer "sceptic", meaning I don't believe in anything without convincing evidence, I don't have "faith" of any kind. Atheism just says you don't believe in God. I don't believe in God, ghosts, heaven, reincarnation, horoscopes, etc.

2. Only as a child, as I was raised Christian (though in a British, fairly relaxed, CofE way). I think I stopped about ten, I'm not sure I believed in a meaningful way, I don't think children can. I thought things my mum and teachers told me were true.

3. I went to church sometimes, and Sunday School, and a CoeE primary school (which most people in England do).

4. I only state it if it comes up. I'm only combative if a religious person wants to discuss it. Most Christians I know are kind people who don't want to preach to me or belittle my beliefs, so I have no desire to do so to them. I met some missionaries traveling, and I do enjoy a good chat about why I consider the Abrahamic God to be evil. One guy annoyed me, because he talked about how me and all the buddhists needed to have open minds about Christianity, but when I asked him if he kept an open mind at all he basically said he didn't. I promised (sincerely) to read up on his church online if he would watch some Christopher Hitchens videos in return. He wouldn't do that. I consider that hypocritical. Someone with strong faith should be more willing to have it challenged, not less.

I used to be a bit more into atheism. Now I think it's a bit meh. Who cares about what you don't believe in? I think all atheists (all people really, but even more so atheists) should read a bit of philosophy, because I don't like the concept of defining yourself by not believing in something. I'd much rather talk about being an existentialist. Existentialism can be scary, but also wonderfully life affirming and freeing.

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1. I'm an atheist, but I prefer "sceptic", meaning I don't believe in anything without convincing evidence, I don't have "faith" of any kind. Atheism just says you don't believe in God. I don't believe in God, ghosts, heaven, reincarnation, horoscopes, etc.

Yeah, I pretty much agree with all that. I don't believe in those things either. It actually pisses me off when people try to convince me that say ghosts exist because it feels like they are trying to trick me or the like. I just use the term atheist because it's well known and if it's the rare person I'm going to reveal it to, I want them to understand what I mean. I used to use agnostic, once I learned the term, because I thought it was kind of arrogant of me to assert that I absolutely am sure there is nothing out there. But somewhere around 35-40, I figured I had seen enough to be certain that I'm an atheist, not an agnostic. as a fantasy/sci fi fan, I'd love to see evidence of the supernatural, but it's yet to happen.

Quote

I used to be a bit more into atheism. Now I think it's a bit meh. Who cares about what you don't believe in? I think all atheists (all people really, but even more so atheists) should read a bit of philosophy, because I don't like the concept of defining yourself by not believing in something. I'd much rather talk about being an existentialist. Existentialism can be scary, but also wonderfully life affirming and freeing

Yeah, I considered making a question about ethics/philosophy in this thread because the subjects are so related. I think most nons face the problem of not having an ethical code handed to them and at some point may realize they need to patch one together. Feel free to discuss philosophy/ethics in this thread if you, or anyone else, wishes. I studied ethics in college and constructed a more formal ethical code after that experience. I had a code before, but I just hadn't thought it out and didn't have very much philosophy/ethics knowledge.

I don't know a ton about existentialism. It wasn't in my ethics class. I did look up the term a bit at one point because I had heard it and was curious. Basically, the idea is you live with the knowledge that you can choose to stop existing at any time (via suicide, etc)? And this knowledge changes you? I might be getting the last part wrong.

 

 

 

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1. I am an agnostic atheist. I do not believe it is possible to know if there are gods, but do not believe there are.

2. Only in a soft sense.  That is, I accepted what I was told until I actually thought hard about it.

3. Sunday School, mainly.  Even then, it all sounded rather silly to me.

4. When someone tries to bring their beliefs into law, it brings out the combative me.  I spent a lot of time elsewhere on the net slamming religious opponents to same-sex marriage recently, during the campaigns around Australia's same-sex marriage survey.  I have mellowed a little otherwise.

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1 hour ago, Martell Spy said:

Please be respectful if you post here.

I'm jealous of the Christian thread, so I figured I'd try to start a thread about non believers. Atheists and the like. So, some questions to get things started.

!. What type of non believer are you? How do you define it? I'm sure I don't know all the terms that are out there, so I'd be interested. (I used to consider myself agnostic and now I consider myself an atheist)

2. Did you ever believe? (I did not)

3. Were you ever part of a faith? (My parents were Jehovah Witnesses, but I never really got into it. I found the meetings boring)

4. Do you tell anyone you are a non? Are you a combative non? (I rarely tell anyone because I'm a careful person)

In the UK at my age I think the expectation is that everyone is a non beleiver. 

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1. I'm atheist.  I understand the supernatural to not be real. 

2. Yes.  I was raised in a deeply religious household that often got involved in very fundamentalist sects.  I didn't really question things at first because life was so strict and sometimes scary.  But once I hit my teens years it pretty much fell apart because I started questioning things and understood that nothing made much sense.  It was actually really difficult for me to say that I didn't believe.  Like scary.

3. Yes.  Mostly baptist, though my mom took us to her Catholic church often and my parents had an unfortunate and terrifying pentecostal phase that I try not to think about too often. 

We practically lived at church. Between Sunday and Wednesday services, youth group, bible study and whatever events, we were there all the time.

4. I used to be combative.  I was so angry at the religious abuse after I broke free.  I felt such a relief when I admitted to being atheist.  Life had a purpose, things mattered because there was just this one shot.  I wanted others to feel the same.  I also wanted them to know how fucking stupid they were.  I'm no longer combative because I got bored of it and I also became too fearful.  Believers can be terrifying for all sorts of reasons.  The boring part the sort of boredom one has explaining to a child why vampires or tinkerbell aren't real.  It's just so obvious to me and it gets old having to explain to grown folks what's obvious.  

That said, I miss the type of community church can offer. I tried out several different options.  Sunday Assembly is like a church for atheists and the idea is sound but there just aren't enough Assemblies to pick and choose from and so if you don't particularly care for one Assembly, it's not like you can just check out the one around the corner because the next closest might be hundreds of miles away.  I even checked out ultra liberal religious groups like UU and Quakers.  The demographics just never quite fit.  They tend to be older, there are fewer families with young children, they are wealthier, and waaaaaaaaay too white.  Sometimes I've wished hardcore that I could just believe in fairies and shit so that I could just join a church and not want to laugh during the sermons.  

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5 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

Yeah, I pretty much agree with all that. I don't believe in those things either. It actually pisses me off when people try to convince me that say ghosts exist because it feels like they are trying to trick me or the like. I just use the term atheist because it's well known and if it's the rare person I'm going to reveal it to, I want them to understand what I mean. I used to use agnostic, once I learned the term, because I thought it was kind of arrogant of me to assert that I absolutely am sure there is nothing out there. But somewhere around 35-40, I figured I had seen enough to be certain that I'm an atheist, not an agnostic. as a fantasy/sci fi fan, I'd love to see evidence of the supernatural, but it's yet to happen.

Yeah, I considered making a question about ethics/philosophy in this thread because the subjects are so related. I think most nons face the problem of not having an ethical code handed to them and at some point may realize they need to patch one together. Feel free to discuss philosophy/ethics in this thread if you, or anyone else, wishes. I studied ethics in college and constructed a more formal ethical code after that experience. I had a code before, but I just hadn't thought it out and didn't have very much philosophy/ethics knowledge.

I don't know a ton about existentialism. It wasn't in my ethics class. I did look up the term a bit at one point because I had heard it and was curious. Basically, the idea is you live with the knowledge that you can choose to stop existing at any time (via suicide, etc)? And this knowledge changes you? I might be getting the last part wrong.

 

I think the important fact to me is that my senses can be tricked. That doesn't mean you're mad or stupid, it's natural, it applies to everyone. I know why people believe in ghosts. Once I was jogging, and I saw an old man stood by a car, and then he was gone. I don't "think" I saw him, my brain fully recognised the image of a man. But I know my senses can be fooled, that my brain "fills in the gaps". So can everyone else's. People say "I can feel God, so he must be real", but that's arrogance, assuming that your feelings must be truth. I'm not denying that people genuinely "feel Jesus", or Muhammed, or Thor, or L Ron Hubbard. The feelings are real, that doesn't mean they're based on any form of truth.

That's why I think Neitzsche's great, because his stuff is all about how you need to form your own moral code, about how that is such a difficult and potentially alienating thing to do, but it is so worth it. I can't really discuss atheism without discussing philosophy, because to me atheism is just saying "I don't believe in God"- everything beyond that is philosophical.

The meaning is highly debated. For me, the starting point is accepting the hard truth that you probably know deep down- that there is no inherent meaning to life. There is no point is any of this, no grand purpose, it just is. I don't know about you, but just typing that still makes me feel a little dizzy, a little angsty. A part of me still yearns for what Hitchens called "a celestial dictatorship, a kind of divine North Korea", where I am subject to a higher power, to guidance, to be like a child, forever led. But this realisation isn't ultimately depressing, and I won't slide into nililism. It's ultimately extremely uplifting, because it means I am truly free in the most meaningful way- I am free to give my life meaning, and choose what makes life meaningful. I don't have to earn x, own x, do x. I have no inherent obligations or duties. If I do good, it isn't for fear of some kind of hell, or for the hope of the reward of some kind of heaven, but for something much more meaningful- because I want to. If I do bad, I was not coerced by some demon, I am responsible, I am ultimately answerable to myself.

I don't really have the ability to properly put these ideas across. I recommend The Stranger by Camus to everyone I can. It's very short and easy to read, and it challenges your whole way of thinking.

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12 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

In the UK at my age I think the expectation is that everyone is a non beleiver. 

We have the highest rate of atheism here in the Seattle area of Washington in the US, something like at 30%. I'm sure it's much higher than that for young people. There might be something in the water here.

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2 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

We have the highest rate of atheism here in the Seattle area of Washington in the US, something like at 30%. I'm sure it's much higher than that for young people. There might be something in the water here.

Interestingly, the rise in atheism in the UK has actually been fairly moderate, considering the collapse in numbers of people attending church- and many of those who do still go are from immigrant groups. If you look at people who aren't old or immigrants, church attendance is extremely low. But while most people I know will say they are non-religious, people still raise their eyebrows at me saying I'm an atheist. Atheism still has a bit of a hardline reputation. A lot of people just don't care, they don't think about it, they aren't interested. I find that harder to relate to than hardcore belief. How can you not think about this kind of thing?

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19 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

1. I'm atheist.  I understand the supernatural to not be real. 

2. Yes.  I was raised in a deeply religious household that often got involved in very fundamentalist sects.  I didn't really question things at first because life was so strict and sometimes scary.  But once I hit my teens years it pretty much fell apart because I started questioning things and understood that nothing made much sense.  It was actually really difficult for me to say that I didn't believe.  Like scary.

3. Yes.  Mostly baptist, though my mom took us to her Catholic church often and my parents had an unfortunate and terrifying pentecostal phase that I try not to think about too often. 

We practically lived at church. Between Sunday and Wednesday services, youth group, bible study and whatever events, we were there all the time.

4. I used to be combative.  I was so angry at the religious abuse after I broke free.  I felt such a relief when I admitted to being atheist.  Life had a purpose, things mattered because there was just this one shot.  I wanted others to feel the same.  I also wanted them to know how fucking stupid they were.  I'm no longer combative because I got bored of it and I also became too fearful.  Believers can be terrifying for all sorts of reasons.  The boring part the sort of boredom one has explaining to a child why vampires or tinkerbell aren't real.  It's just so obvious to me and it gets old having to explain to grown folks what's obvious.  

That said, I miss the type of community church can offer. I tried out several different options.  Sunday Assembly is like a church for atheists and the idea is sound but there just aren't enough Assemblies to pick and choose from and so if you don't particularly care for one Assembly, it's not like you can just check out the one around the corner because the next closest might be hundreds of miles away.  I even checked out ultra liberal religious groups like UU and Quakers.  The demographics just never quite fit.  They tend to be older, there are fewer families with young children, they are wealthier, and waaaaaaaaay too white.  Sometimes I've wished hardcore that I could just believe in fairies and shit so that I could just join a church and not want to laugh during the sermons.  

That sounds like a terrifying upbringing kind of. I had it much easier, just lots of boredom involved. I'm basically hedonist and I think that's what turned me into an atheist. I greatly value free time, always have, and it was being forcibly taken away from by religion. At the age of 12, my Mom allowed me the choice of continue to partake in the faith and I chose to stop. It was a great day.

I have thought about the loss of community from being an atheist. I briefly flirted with going to a Unitarian church once I heard about it, but I never pulled the trigger. Nerdy Dungeon and Dragons groups are kind of my community. 

BTW, as a Jehovah's Witness, I was told quite young that things like Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are fake. It's possible that had a hand in making me an atheist so young. I don't quite remember though, but I was told those were fake sometime around 4 or 5 when my first memories begin.

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Put me in the atheist category.  No belief in the supernatural or deities.  Would rather be rational than spiritual.  Raised Catholic with plenty of indoctrination and Catholic school 2nd through 6th grade.  Absolutely hated it and realized early on that the 'rich' kids of the school were treated much better/different than working class or military kids.  Because of the Catholic school I hated school in general until I went to college.  Then I loved it!

In high school I began to 'fall away' because I noticed that church sure loves money and always wanted more.  I had to go to church to until age 18 when I said 'no more'.  Sure pissed my mother off but my dad said that it was my choice now that I was of age.

So I'm an apostate and an atheist.  For many years very angry at the church but don't feel anger anymore, but really don't like Catholic or any type of religion.  When I went online in the late nineties i started looking of sites and info about atheism and was really glad that there was plenty on the net.  Read many 'how I became an unbeliever' stories and still remember the day I called myself an atheist.  heee, heee, heee, I wasn't  struck down by an angry smiting god, imagine that.  

Oh, I come from a family of 11 children, and only one of us is a regular service attending believer, and he is a Quaker.  Then there ere a couple of sometime church goers and the rest run the gauntlet of confirmed atheists, agnostics and those that just don't give a fuck about religion.  

edt; for community I find what I need with other horse people, that's where I have my most treasured friendships and relationships and the most  interesting conversations.   

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43 minutes ago, mankytoes said:

 

I think the important fact to me is that my senses can be tricked. That doesn't mean you're mad or stupid, it's natural, it applies to everyone. I know why people believe in ghosts. Once I was jogging, and I saw an old man stood by a car, and then he was gone. I don't "think" I saw him, my brain fully recognised the image of a man. But I know my senses can be fooled, that my brain "fills in the gaps". So can everyone else's. People say "I can feel God, so he must be real", but that's arrogance, assuming that your feelings must be truth. I'm not denying that people genuinely "feel Jesus", or Muhammed, or Thor, or L Ron Hubbard. The feelings are real, that doesn't mean they're based on any form of truth.

That's why I think Neitzsche's great, because his stuff is all about how you need to form your own moral code, about how that is such a difficult and potentially alienating thing to do, but it is so worth it. I can't really discuss atheism without discussing philosophy, because to me atheism is just saying "I don't believe in God"- everything beyond that is philosophical.

The meaning is highly debated. For me, the starting point is accepting the hard truth that you probably know deep down- that there is no inherent meaning to life. There is no point is any of this, no grand purpose, it just is. I don't know about you, but just typing that still makes me feel a little dizzy, a little angsty. A part of me still yearns for what Hitchens called "a celestial dictatorship, a kind of divine North Korea", where I am subject to a higher power, to guidance, to be like a child, forever led. But this realisation isn't ultimately depressing, and I won't slide into nililism. It's ultimately extremely uplifting, because it means I am truly free in the most meaningful way- I am free to give my life meaning, and choose what makes life meaningful. I don't have to earn x, own x, do x. I have no inherent obligations or duties. If I do good, it isn't for fear of some kind of hell, or for the hope of the reward of some kind of heaven, but for something much more meaningful- because I want to. If I do bad, I was not coerced by some demon, I am responsible, I am ultimately answerable to myself.

I don't really have the ability to properly put these ideas across. I recommend The Stranger by Camus to everyone I can. It's very short and easy to read, and it challenges your whole way of thinking.

I will definitely check out The Stranger. I haven't done a ton of reading on atheism. I do greatly enjoy the freedom of being an atheist, both the moral and personal freedom. I'm not sure that's exactly why I become a non believer though. It happened so young it almost felt like it wasn't really a choice, but just what I was. I'm a hedonist though and it's possible it was a purely selfish decision.

I saw this sci fi Anime cartoon when I was like 5 called Star Blazers. I would draw out these big space battles and that's how I survived the many religious meetings I was forced to endure. I had to go to these meetings twice a week. And they also had these big things called assemblies where you'd go all day every year or maybe twice a year.

I never really grappled with life not having any meaning, I think because I was an atheist so young. It's just the way it was. I did grapple some with the idea of being dead. However, I didn't fear death until 27. My parents died then and I actually saw what death was and it was quite the changing experience. After that I rightly feared death, and death can be quite a scary subject for an atheist since you are fairly sure it is truly the end. 

I'm not exactly happy about that in any way, but I have no illusions. I really don't think I'm going to live forever as a tech billionaire vampire or anything.

I do think you can find some meaning in the idea that the Human race does go on. You may not be there, but is an uplifting idea that Humanity may just continue to grow and grow, and perhaps spread through out the stars into a society like in the Player of Games novel.

 

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39 minutes ago, Nasty LongRider said:

Put me in the atheist category.  No belief in the supernatural or deities.  Would rather be rational than spiritual.  Raised Catholic with plenty of indoctrination and Catholic school 2nd through 6th grade.  Absolutely hated it and realized early on that the 'rich' kids of the school were treated much better/different than working class or military kids.  Because of the Catholic school I hated school in general until I went to college.  Then I loved it!

In high school I began to 'fall away' because I noticed that church sure loves money and always wanted more.  I had to go to church to until age 18 when I said 'no more'.  Sure pissed my mother off but my dad said that it was my choice now that I was of age.

So I'm an apostate and an atheist.  For many years very angry at the church but don't feel anger anymore, but really don't like Catholic or any type of religion.  When I went online in the late nineties i started looking of sites and info about atheism and was really glad that there was plenty on the net.  Read many 'how I became an unbeliever' stories and still remember the day I called myself an atheist.  heee, heee, heee, I wasn't  struck down by an angry smiting god, imagine that.  

Oh, I come from a family of 11 children, and only one of us is a regular service attending believer, and he is a Quaker.  Then there ere a couple of sometime church goers and the rest run the gauntlet of confirmed atheists, agnostics and those that just don't give a fuck about religion.  

edt; for community I find what I need with other horse people, that's where I have my most treasured friendships and relationships and the most  interesting conversations.   

That's interesting, the class angle on the Catholic Church. I have a Catholic friend, so perhaps I'll ask her if she's seen that.

Oddly, the Jehovah Witnesses didn't seem at all interesting in taking people's money. I can't fault them for that. There wasn't things like tithes and they often sold their literature at nearly cost.

They're pretty heavy into control though. It has a reputation as a cult for a reason. My Mom actually ended up getting kicked out, or what they call "disfellowshipped" for smoking. That didn't endear them to me, but it wasn't why I became a non. They had all sorts of no's. However some of the big ones were pretty not enforced or there was a gray area. You were told not to have friends that are not in the religion, but I never saw it actually enforced. You were warned of things like watching TV, but that was not enforced at all either. There was a lot of talk about avoiding "worldly" things, which was anything that wasn't of God or the religion.

Yeah, 2 of my brothers aren't religious. Oddly, one of my brothers is hardcore into the JW faith now. But keep in mind this was after 20 years of him being out of it. He's a very social person, so it's perhaps the community that drew him back. He tried to convert me a couple times. In fact I still have a bible from him around here somewhere.

I'm a pretty solitary and quiet person, although I have my gaming friends. And so I'm kind of a natural fit for being an atheist, I don't miss the community as much as someone else might.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Stubby said:

1. I am an agnostic atheist. I do not believe it is possible to know if there are gods, but do not believe there are.

2. Only in a soft sense.  That is, I accepted what I was told until I actually thought hard about it.

3. Sunday School, mainly.  Even then, it all sounded rather silly to me.

4. When someone tries to bring their beliefs into law, it brings out the combative me.  I spent a lot of time elsewhere on the net slamming religious opponents to same-sex marriage recently, during the campaigns around Australia's same-sex marriage survey.  I have mellowed a little otherwise.

Here's another idea. What if God exists, but we can't see HIm/Her. And God doesn't give a damn about us in any way and will never contact us. Maybe God forgot we were even here and has moved on to something else. It's possible we just aren't that important.

 

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38 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

I never really grappled with life not having any meaning,

The question for me as to the meaning of life is, what is meaningful to you?  What does life mean to you?  

 

40 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

After that I rightly feared death, and death can be quite a scary subject for an atheist since you are fairly sure it is truly the end. 

I no longer grapple with this. I have been with both parents when they died, years apart.  It's not being able to accomplish all one wants in life before one dies is what scares me.  Death to me is like what one experienced before being born; ie; nothing.   Being with someone when they are dying is a profound act, Joseph Campbell called it 'a mediation on death', and I would have to agree.  Giving comfort to someone as they die is compassionate act.

37 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

They're pretty heavy into control though.

Control is the name of the game in religion tho, isn't it?  When I was in grade school guilt and fear were always with me because of the indoctrination and the schooling.   Plus, nuns can be fricking scary!  LOL  I've heard of JW disfellowshipping and it sounds very cruel.   More of that control angle. 

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1 hour ago, Martell Spy said:

Here's another idea. What if God exists, but we can't see HIm/Her. And God doesn't give a damn about us in any way and will never contact us. Maybe God forgot we were even here and has moved on to something else. It's possible we just aren't that important.

 

Then it might as well not exist.

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4 hours ago, Martell Spy said:

Please be respectful if you post here.

I'm jealous of the Christian thread, so I figured I'd try to start a thread about non believers. Atheists and the like. So, some questions to get things started.

!. What type of non believer are you? How do you define it? I'm sure I don't know all the terms that are out there, so I'd be interested. (I used to consider myself agnostic and now I consider myself an atheist)

2. Did you ever believe? (I did not)

3. Were you ever part of a faith? (My parents were Jehovah Witnesses, but I never really got into it. I found the meetings boring)

4. Do you tell anyone you are a non? Are you a combative non? (I rarely tell anyone because I'm a careful person)

1. I'm an agnostic atheist. I usually just say I'm an atheist to anyone who asks. I used to say I was an agnostic, but now I consider myself an atheist. I believe there are natural explanations for everything. I've seen no evidence persuasive enough that the supernatural exists in this universe.

2. I don't know. Maybe in a vague way but maybe the whole time I felt it was just wishful thinking and everyone was just pretending to believe and I was just being a part of that.

3. When I was growing up, my grandmother on my mother's side was a lapsed Catholic, my father and everyone on my father's side were either Catholic or lapsed Catholics. My best friend and his family were Catholic. I thought I was Catholic, but I never went to church, received communion or any of that and I didn't really understand the details of the religion and what made it different than others. Until I was at least 10 I thought Christian = Catholic and Catholic = Christian. I knew many of the bible stories and general dogma but I lumped them all into the same category as fairy tales. 

4. I've told many people I'm an agnostic when that's what I considered myself as, since I've determined I'm an atheist I've only told my mother and my counselors irl (my mom always says "Why can't you just keep saying your agnostic?" and I have to over and again explain to her how my definitions of agnostic and atheist have changed and thus so what I consider myself to be). If someone asks, I'll tell them. I won't beat around the bush or anything. I enjoy talking about and debating about beliefs but I also know it's a sensitive subject so I don't go looking to tell anyone and I don't go looking to challenge anyone else's beliefs. I don't want to change anyone's beliefs, I just don't want anyone trying to change mine or tell I'm wrong for mine, or to allow their beliefs to interfere where I don't believe they belong, like in the science classroom or in law and government.

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7 hours ago, Martell Spy said:

Please be respectful if you post here.

I'm jealous of the Christian thread, so I figured I'd try to start a thread about non believers. Atheists and the like. So, some questions to get things started.

!. What type of non believer are you? How do you define it? I'm sure I don't know all the terms that are out there, so I'd be interested. (I used to consider myself agnostic and now I consider myself an atheist)

2. Did you ever believe? (I did not)

3. Were you ever part of a faith? (My parents were Jehovah Witnesses, but I never really got into it. I found the meetings boring)

4. Do you tell anyone you are a non? Are you a combative non? (I rarely tell anyone because I'm a careful person)

1-Others would call me agnostic, I call me apathetic. I do not care whether there is a higher power or not.

2-I have entertained a lot of beliefs in childhood and have decided it’s just not an important question to answer in my life

3-not really. My mother is native Ojibwe so I’ve had some exposure to those traditions and my dad is a Lutheran raised agnostic (one of his parents was atheist, one Lutheran) so I’ve been exposed to that also. Neither was a part of my upbringing, but politics very much were.

4-I think people assume it generally because of my appearance, I don’t bring it up. Evangelizing any belief or non belief in a higher power is just an asshole move.

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48 minutes ago, Kelli Fury said:

1-Others would call me agnostic, I call me apathetic. I do not care whether there is a higher power or not.

Lady Stubby is the same.  She calls herself an apatheist. ;)

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Had a conversation about this last night with the GF (who's 100% atheist) so it's the perfect moment to chime in while it's fresh:

1) I'm an agnostic theist. I believe in God or Gods, because I doubt that humans could represent the ultimate plane of existence (i.e. that there aren't sentient beings somewhere in the universe that have powers far beyond our imagination, even if said powers are merely the result of the science and technology they developed).
I also believe that our existence has meaning beyond materialism and that there is some kind of cosmic law ordering our destinies.
I don't believe the two are necessarily linked though. I tend to believe that Gods don't care about humans (if they are aware of us, they have to obey something like Star Trek's prime directive of non-interference in the evolution of inferior civilizations), I very much doubt one of them created us (or our world), and I tend to believe the cosmic order is not necessarily the creation of a God but merely the hidden law of the universe (i.e. mostly determined by physics, mathematics and biology, though we are not advanced enough to understand it).

2) Yes. Though I doubt God or Gods care much about us, I have had troubling... Experiences. Though I don't think superior beings intervene much in our human affairs, I think at times they might. Or perhaps it is that the cosmic order has a way of asserting itself that is more obvious at times.
Maybe it was me who desperately wanted to make sense of my life at the time, but I would say prayers and meditation (and drugs ^^) allow us to see beyond the material at times, and that a lot of answers can be found through spirituality.

3) No. My father was raised a Jew but turned Zen Buddhist. My mother was always an atheist though her mother was raised Catholic. I had lots of contact with the bible as a kid but always read it as a collection of allegories.

4) Rarely, and no. I despise religion but have the greatest respect for faith. Sometimes I get very angry at specific consequences of religious extremism though (and I'm thinking creationism or climate change denial, not just terrorism).

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