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Ashara's "Boyfriend"


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I think all these wild Ashara/Arthur Dayne theories will die down once Edric Dayne gets back to Dorne to claim Dawn and Starfall. He's going to put Darkstar and the other Dayne's of High Hermitage in line, or, to the sword. Then  a House Dayne character will have a larger part in present day Westeros and the series.  I think the part of the brotherhood that didn't follow the Stoneheart will follow him as he was Beric's squire. 

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On 11/28/2017 at 6:06 PM, Ye Shall Be As Gods said:

B + A = J is much likelier than R + L = J.  N + A = J is even better still.  Follow the link below to the Order of the Greenhand's Y/T channel who provides great analysis to support N + A = J.

Oberyn has no connection to Ashara and it will not serve the story for him to be the guilty man.  I would also cross off the Targaryens.  That leaves Brandon and that's just the kind of impulsive behavior expected of that neanderthal.

 

 

On 11/28/2017 at 11:14 PM, maudisdottir said:

Yeah, nah.

They do a fine job on their channel.  The Order of the GH is one of my favorite YT channels.  Ideas of Ice and Fire is also great.  N+A=J makes sense. 

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On 11/23/2017 at 4:29 PM, Daemon The Black Dragon said:

 Barristan believes she was dishonored. She probably just slept with one of the Stark brothers and Barristan sees that as a dishonor.

This. I like the Barristan character as a warrior, but he's overly Puritanical. And Ashara's Dornish, living under a different moral code than most Westerosi. 

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2 hours ago, Light a wight tonight said:

This. I like the Barristan character as a warrior, but he's overly Puritanical. And Ashara's Dornish, living under a different moral code than most Westerosi. 

But this is not only Barristan's view - we have the same view on the dishonour of extramarital sex and pregnancy in Jon, Arys and Sansa chapters, meaning this is a prevalent Westerosi view. The Dornish codes don't matter for this assessment, and GRRM stated that highborn Dornish maidens are not supposed to sleep around, either.

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I blame it all on Howland Reed.  Little dude was so grateful to the Starks so he decides to give them back.  Ned is hot for Ashara.  Lyanna is hot for Rhaegar.  Brandon wants to play his version of golf with the women.  The Starks needed help.  Howland mixes dried toad testicles and crushed mushrooms to make Crannogman's Fly.  He spikes the punch bowl in the Stark's tent with his aphrodisiac.  Lyanna drank.  But Ned was too slow and already horny Brandon got to the punch first.  The rest is history.  Brandon invited Ashara to the Stark orgy.  Brandon+Lyanna+Ashara.  Who cares about making babies!  It's all about the moment, man!   Ashara gets pregnant and maybe Lyanna too.

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12 hours ago, Ygrain said:

But this is not only Barristan's view - we have the same view on the dishonour of extramarital sex and pregnancy in Jon, Arys and Sansa chapters, meaning this is a prevalent Westerosi view. The Dornish codes don't matter for this assessment, and GRRM stated that highborn Dornish maidens are not supposed to sleep around, either.

This doesn't alter the fact that Barristan carries his brand of morality to an extreme, for one thing. We only hear about Ashara being "dishonored" from him. And as to highborn Dornish maidens keeping celibate, I guess nobody told Arianne.

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56 minutes ago, Light a wight tonight said:

And as to highborn Dornish maidens keeping celibate, I guess nobody told Arianne.

Yeah, but Arianne seems to have done that partly to get a rise out of her father, and said he did nothing, because he always does nothing, which is something that has always been a great disappointment to her.

I think that the notion that Dornish women are super free has been taken to the extreme, the same way that bastards are so loved in Dorne. I don't think Ashara was as free to do as she pleased as people think she might have been. 

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1 hour ago, Light a wight tonight said:

This doesn't alter the fact that Barristan carries his brand of morality to an extreme, for one thing. We only hear about Ashara being "dishonored" from him.

We don't hear that many people talking about Ashara's pregnancy, either, and the one person mentioning it - Cersei - is hardly one to be preoccupied with honour.

 

1 hour ago, Light a wight tonight said:

And as to highborn Dornish maidens keeping celibate, I guess nobody told Arianne.

And GRRM told us that Arianne is not to be taken as an example of Dornish morality, IIRC.

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28 minutes ago, Ygrain said:

And GRRM told us that Arianne is not to be taken as an example of Dornish morality, IIRC.

I don't recall her being rebuked for her behavior, at least not the sexual side of it. And her uncle Oberyn certainly isn't a prude. 

Be careful of what Martin seems to say. He implies a lot with the intent to mislead.

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9 hours ago, Light a wight tonight said:

I don't recall her being rebuked for her behavior, at least not the sexual side of it. And her uncle Oberyn certainly isn't a prude. 

And who is there to rebuke her? Doran, who plays a weak, ineffectual ruler and father?  Or Oberyn, with his own interesting sex life? She is basically left to her own devices, until that eye-opening talk with Doran. Doesn't mean that people approve, but none are in the position to tell her.

9 hours ago, Light a wight tonight said:

Be careful of what Martin seems to say. He implies a lot with the intent to mislead.

Well, if he says that Arianne's behaviour is not a norm, it might mean that she is a prude by the Dornish standards :D

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I'm not the biggest fan of Barristan, but he grew up in the Dornish Marches, and spent several decades in King's Landing. Brandon and Ashara having sex probably wasn't dishonorable to him, even if he was jealous. This does leave open the possibility that there was some degree of foul play involved.

On the other hand, I think another way of interpreting this is that Ashara may well have fallen in love with Brandon, and hoped or expected him to end his betrothal to Cat to be with her instead. We saw essentially the same thing happen with Barbrey -- she clearly thought that Brandon was going to marry her (and still thinks he wanted to, by the looks of it), but is there any reason to really think that he was genuine in this? Brandon's described as being the "wild wolf" who "was never shy about taking what he wanted." If anything, he sounds quite a bit like Robert, who would, according to Ned, "swear undying love and forget them before evenfall." So my guess as to how Ashara was dishonored was likely not because she had sex, but rather because Brandon abandoned her afterwards. Now she was alone and pregnant, her child would be a bastard and have to face challenges unique to bastards, even in Dorne, and any promises Brandon may have made her had already been broken. That probably garnered a great deal of sympathy from Barristan, and aside from wanting to be with her on a personal level, he also likely wished he could have spared her that experience.

Ned's bitterness over Cat hearing rumors about Ashara likely stemmed from the fact that, much like with Lyanna, Ned's honor was being tainted by the actions of his siblings. If Ned told Cat that Brandon had been Ashara's lover, that may have hurt her even more -- she was already furious about Jon being raised at Winterfell, and now she'd be learning that Brandon, whose wilder reputation she seems to have been unaware of, was a womanizer who probably wouldn't have been faithful to her either. And besides, by allowing others to believe that he had been Ashara's lover, Ned was further protecting Jon's identity. If people already believed they knew who Jon's mother was, there'd be less gossip about other possibilities regarding his parentage.

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I think Brandon was already bethroned during tourney of Harrenhall, why woud Ashara want to break a bethrothal and hope she would be with him? Being a bethrothal is essentially being married to that person, there really isn’t any reason for her to sleep with Brandon 

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23 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I'm not the biggest fan of Barristan, but he grew up in the Dornish Marches, and spent several decades in King's Landing. Brandon and Ashara having sex probably wasn't dishonorable to him, even if he was jealous. This does leave open the possibility that there was some degree of foul play involved.

I'm not sure about this, but I pretty much agree with everything else in your post about the possible Brandon & Ashara hookup. Barristan seems to be an old school romantic, which might just be because of his decades of celibacy. To him, dream-girl Ashara sleeping with a betrothed man (and possibly getting pregnant by him then or at some later date) would be dishonourable.

13 minutes ago, Crona said:

Being a bethrothal is essentially being married to that person, there really isn’t any reason for her to sleep with Brandon 

Because he was hot, and charming, and his fiancé wasn't there (that we know of).

Are you saying that once you're engaged/married, people instantly stop being attracted to you? Tell that to Bobby B and every single person in history who's ever cheated.

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11 minutes ago, maudisdottir said:

 

Because he was hot, and charming, and his fiancé wasn't there (that we know of).

Are you saying that once you're engaged/married, people instantly stop being attracted to you? Tell that to Bobby B and every single person in history who's ever cheated.

I was referring to the idea that she wanted to marry him, and yes being a bethrothal should be a deterrent for most people

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On 12/1/2017 at 9:13 PM, Bullrout said:

 

They do a fine job on their channel.  The Order of the GH is one of my favorite YT channels.  Ideas of Ice and Fire is also great.  N+A=J makes sense. 

Agree on crossing off Rhaegar and Aerys.  Aerys needed his version of Viagra by then and we would have heard if he grilled somebody at the Harrenhall tournament.  Rhaegar had his wife present.  He's reckless and irresponsible but I don't think he would stoop to rape.  Oberyn could do it and we shouldn't cross him off the list of suspects but Brandon is the prime suspect.  He went looking for Ashara and it's in him to do her even while he's speaking for his brother.  I don't like Brandon Stark.

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49 minutes ago, Daenerys Targaryen's slave said:

The Fire and Mud analogy, along with the Dany/Daario/Quentyn is GRRM slapping us in the face with the truth.

Ashara willingly and joyfully spread her legs for Brandon. They were both two of the most desirable people in Westeros and wanted to have some fun.

Nothing more. Nothing less.

And out came Jon Snow, the bastard of Winterfell. 

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6 hours ago, Sydney Mae said:

And out came Jon Snow, the bastard of Winterfell. 

And how does it make his parentage a secret too dangerousto share, even with those one loves and trusts?

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