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Canon Claude

What exactly was Jaime thinking??

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Jaime blatantly defies Tywin by getting Tyrion out of prison with Varys’ help. Tywin even puts two and two together and swears to hang Varys just before he meets his demise.

But that’s the part which suddenly makes me wonder. Jaime had no idea that Tyrion would go murder their father. For all he knew, Tyrion and Varys were going to disappear into the east. So what was Jaime expecting Tywin to do about it? Let them go? Tywin would hunt for Tyrion to the edge of Asshai, and Cersei would do so even beyond that. Did Jaime think Tyrion would be able to just live a quiet life somewhere and never be bothered again? And what if Tywin made a logical guess that Jaime was also guilty? Did he not consider Tywin wouldn’t punish his defiant son?

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Jaime is a bimbo.

So yes, he thought that:

- Tyrion will live happily ever after somewhere in Essos

- Tywin will not punish his Golden Boy

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In terms of Tywin suspecting him I think he was hedging his bets. He knew Tywin still wanted him as heir to Casterly Rock so he probably wouldn't be punished too badly. In his mind I think he thought worst case was being stripped of his white cloak.

As for Tyrion: hunted but alive is better than dead.

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Tywin didn't care too much for Joffrey.

He would've put a reward on Tyrion's arrest and be done with it for the moment. He would never persecute Jaime for it, no matter believing it was him who saved his brother or not. After that, he would've focused on mentoring Tommen and proceed with his duty as a Hand.

Cersei will try to hunt Tyrion down harder though. As the poster above said, still Tyrion on the loose and hiding is better than certainly dead.

Jaime did it so he would have a clear conscience after doing everything he could to save his brother. After returning from captivity he started caring less for consequences.

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What I do for love.

 

You have not been paying attention Jaime does not care about consequences, and as far as his family is concerned he would do anything for them.

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I think Tywin would not have suspect Jaime. He promptly accused Varys when Tyrion appeared, so he would have put a reward on Tyrion and a smaller amount on Varys.

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You are using Jaime and thinking in the same sentence.

Jaime acts. Jaime quips. Jaime broods. Jaime makes sweet love to Cersei next to their son's corpse. Jaime does not think.

Seriously though, Tyrion would have lost his head the next day. He did need to do something if he meant to prevent and he is the one person with any likelihood to escape Tywin's wrath. There was legal no recourse and he did go to the one person who could get Tyrion out of the Red Keep unseen. Obviously he did not think ahead, but it was the last opportunity.

Edited by The Sleeper

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IMO Tywin knew 85% it wasnt Tyrion I suspect probably even possibly knowing who really did kill Joffrey, the thing is he didnt care at all because Joffrey was a twit and would cause alote of problems for Tywin down the road. Tyrion was a convienent scape goat and nothing more. 

 

Tywin would put a price on Tyrions head and would ignore what Jamie did publically to save whats left of his sons honor but privatly he would tell jamie he is a moron. Tywin would put no effort into finding Tyrion but Cersie would. 

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4 hours ago, The Sunland Lord said:

Tywin didn't care too much for Joffrey.

Indeed. Tywin was probably secretly glad of Joffrey's agonizing demise; the kid was uncontrollable, irresponsible, stupid, and too obviously brutal (unlike Tywin, who was slyly brutal). As a bonus, he'd be able to get rid of his embarrassing dwarf son (now even more disfigured!) to the Night's Watch - or execution; either one is good.

I agree that, with Tyrion's escape, Tywin would not have lost much sleep over it. He may have suspected Jaime, had he lived long enough (like the next day), but you're right: Jaime was his 'golden boy' snd this might have made it more likely for Tywin to browbeat Jaime into inheriting Casterly Rock. Tywin might have quietly put brakes on Cersei's path of vengeance. He really wanted her out of King's Landing and somewhere she could do less damage - particularly less damage to Tommen, who still had potential, unlike his older brother. Marriage to somebody in a distant part of the kingdoms might have been good; maybe that way, Cersei would get another baby to spoil (or ruin).

4 hours ago, The Sunland Lord said:

Jaime did it so he would have a clear conscience after doing everything he could to save his brother. After returning from captivity he started caring less for consequences.

Good analysis! Captivity, plus losing his sword hand, plus time spent with Brienne of Tarth seems to have awoken Jaime's  long-dormant brain. Funny how many of the characters of asoiaf seem to wake up only once they've lost everything they held dear.

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4 hours ago, elder brother jonothor dar said:

What I do for love.

 

You have not been paying attention Jaime does not care about consequences, and as far as his family is concerned he would do anything for them.

This. He loved his brother. I don't know that it even mattered if he killed Joff. He doesn't care about the consequences of his actions, he cares about his clear conscience & doing what he feels had to be done. 

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9 hours ago, elder brother jonothor dar said:

What I do for love.

 

You have not been paying attention Jaime does not care about consequences, and as far as his family is concerned he would do anything for them.

Pretty much this.  He loves Tyrion, and would do anything for him.  He also has lingering guilt over the Tysha affair, and wants to balance the scales, so to say.

I doubt Jaime was too worried about Tywin suspecting him.  No reason he should be suspected.  As for Tyrion, alive and hunted is better than headless and dead.

I think Tywin truly believed Tyrion to be guilty.  He certainly had respect for Tyrion's abilities combined with a contempt for his morals.  To be honest, if I didn't have access to Tyrion's and Sansa's thoughts, I would believe them guilty, too.  They had ample motive, as well as ability and opportunity.

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35 minutes ago, Nevets said:

To be honest, if I didn't have access to Tyrion's and Sansa's thoughts, I would believe them guilty, too.  They had ample motive, as well as ability and opportunity.

This! Plus, Tyrion's sarcasm, wit, and taking the opportunity to plunder Pycelle's drug cabinet made a great case against him. Then Joffery stepped in to give an even more immediate motive. Tyrion's case would have made Perry Mason* sweat.

---------

* The eponymous hero of a detective program, from back in the day of black&white, broadcast video.

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As others have suggested, Jaime is not so concerned with the consequences of his actions, and I don't think Tywin would have pursued Tyrion abroad as long as Tyrion had kept a low profile. 

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4 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

As others have suggested, Jaime is not so concerned with the consequences of his actions, and I don't think Tywin would have pursued Tyrion abroad as long as Tyrion had kept a low profile. 

Sure he would. Tyrion escaping means eluding Tywin’s justice and making a fool of him in front of the seven kingdoms. Not to mention rumours that would start. I mean, it’s a nobleman whose father is his primary judge. No way there isn’t at least a whispered question or two on whether Tywin was involved to avoid killing his own kin. To anyone who doesn’t know how much Tywin hates Tyrion, it’s corruption and nepotism of the highest order. Not to mention a case of regicide. Tywin would have no choice but to hunt Tyrion down to his last breath, and given his and Cersei’s feelings on the matter, I doubt he would need much persuasion. 

Edited by Canon Claude

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Jaime was always Tyrion's champion and protector, even from his own family. I think he felt guilty he couldn't fight for Tyrion in his trail as that was what he would have done under different circumstances.

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I don't see why Tywin would suspect Jaime rather than just assume the missing Varys arranged it all. 

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1 hour ago, Canon Claude said:

Sure he would. Tyrion escaping means eluding Tywin’s justice and making a fool of him in front of the seven kingdoms. Not to mention rumours that would start. I mean, it’s a nobleman whose father is his primary judge. No way there isn’t at least a whispered question or two on whether Tywin was involved to avoid killing his own kin. To anyone who doesn’t know how much Tywin hates Tyrion, it’s corruption and nepotism of the highest order. Not to mention a case of regicide. Tywin would have no choice but to hunt Tyrion down to his last breath, and given his and Cersei’s feelings on the matter, I doubt he would need much persuasion. 

The whispers would be kept to a minimum...

Quote

Old Merryweather had been nattering about raising the duty on wine when Lord Rykker said, "If we need gold, His Grace should sit Lord Tywin on his chamber pot." Aerys and his lickspittles laughed loudly, whilst Father stared at Rykker over his wine cup. Long after the merriment had died that gaze had lingered. Rykker turned away, turned back, met Father's eyes, then ignored them, drank a tankard of ale, and stalked off red-faced, defeated by a pair of unflinching eyes.

 

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12 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

Jaime was always Tyrion's champion and protector, even from his own family. I think he felt guilty he couldn't fight for Tyrion in his trail as that was what he would have done under different circumstances.

Now that would be interesting how would that play out if Jaime was whole

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Tywin is only threatening Tyrion with what he knows/suspects, that Varys and Jaime helped. It only matters that Tywin is being threatened at the time. Varys and Jaime are both too valuable to Tywin.

If Tyrion just fled the castle, Tywin may never have been the wiser and/or could just behead any dwarf and be done with it.

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On 11/27/2017 at 5:22 PM, Trigger Warning said:

I don't see why Tywin would suspect Jaime rather than just assume the missing Varys arranged it all. 

This. Honestly can't even really comprehend why this is a question, even if it's willful ignorance.

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