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Who was the best Targaryen King?


SunfyreTheGolden

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11 hours ago, Bael's Bastard said:

How long would Aegon have been content to play consort as Rhaenyra sat the Iron Throne, especially with the Hightowers whispering in his ear? And how easily would they have rid themselves of Rhaenyra without Daemon and the Velaryons in place as her allies? Marrying Rhaenyra to Aegon would have been all but handing Aegon the Iron Throne.

As I said above, if Rhaenyra had become Aegon's foster mother as well as his betrothed from the day she was sixteen and he six things could have turned out pretty fine. A boy this young isn't set in his way, and if Viserys I had sent them both to Dragonstone to live there, away from Alicent Aegon may have become Rhaenyra's creature rather than his mother's.

If Aegon had been willing to exert power as Rhaenyra's consort - perhaps also serving as her Protector of the Realm and Hand - then the Hightowers chance of a successful coup would have been pretty small.

And while I don't buy the story that he did not want to steal his sister's throne - as Eustace apparently claimed - I'm willing to buy the idea that he was reluctant to take the throne. His mother and grandfather may have dreamed of seating him on the throne for years, but his royal father had had no such inclinations, and in this world the will of your (royal) father has more meaning than what your mother and maternal grandfather want you to do.

Aegon II clearly wasn't a sympathetic person, but the kind of guy he was - interested in frequenting brothels and enjoying his food - indicates that he was perfectly happy enjoying his life and the wealth and privileges that came with being a Targaryen prince. Being king is a lot of work. And being crowned in that context means that you are very likely forced to fight a war to keep your crown.

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5 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

As I said above, if Rhaenyra had become Aegon's foster mother as well as his betrothed from the day she was sixteen and he six things could have turned out pretty fine. A boy this young isn't set in his way, and if Viserys I had sent them both to Dragonstone to live there, away from Alicent Aegon may have become Rhaenyra's creature rather than his mother's.

That was pretty much my line of thinking. Trying to form a bond between a young Aegon II and Rhaenyra. Let Aegon grow up looking up to and worshiping his older sister who he'll someday marry. 

Though, I Hadn't even thought about the perks of having them both live at Dragonstone when Aegon became old enough to become her cup-bearer or page or whatever, that would indeed be an excellent idea. A young boy moving to a new home would look for a parental figure to look up to and he'd have one in Rhaenyra. Rhaenyra's children all grew up to love her as much as she loved them it seems, I don't see why Aegon II wouldn't have, had he'd been put in that situation.  Keeping them both away from the Hightowers/Daemon ect  would be another added bonus. 

Plus by the time Viserys I died it would be likely that Rhaenyra and Aegon II would have had children and an heir of their own. What would be the point in trying to split up a couple when in the end their child is already in line for the Throne? Could their be drama and powers struggles between the two? Sure. However would they really go to all out war against each other and risk destroying a realm that their child will inherit? I'd liked to think not. 

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8 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

Though, I Hadn't even thought about the perks of having them both live at Dragonstone when Aegon became old enough to become her cup-bearer or page or whatever, that would indeed be an excellent idea. A young boy moving to a new home would look for a parental figure to look up to and he'd have one in Rhaenyra. Rhaenyra's children all grew up to love her as much as she loved them it seems, I don't see why Aegon II wouldn't have, had he'd been put in that situation.  Keeping them both away from the Hightowers/Daemon ect  would be another added bonus. 

Yeah, it really seems that the rot leading up to the Dance came from Alicent's jealousy of Rhaenyra's status as the Heir Apparent. She (and perhaps Otto, too) fed their children their own hatred. It took root in Aegon and Aemond (in the wake of the Vhagar affair) although apparently not so much in Helaena and Daeron.

Without that, things could have turned out reasonably fine. After all, if a family works really well together outsiders and schemers have much more difficulty turning them against each other.

8 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

Plus by the time Viserys I died it would be likely that Rhaenyra and Aegon II would have had children and an heir of their own. What would be the point in trying to split up a couple when in the end their child is already in line for the Throne? Could their be drama and powers struggles between the two? Sure. However would they really go to all out war against each other and risk destroying a realm that their child will inherit? I'd liked to think not. 

There would have still been the possibility of a struggle for supremacy within the marriage, but with Rhaenyra being the chosen heir and - perhaps - also the last Hand of her father, that struggle most likely would have ended up with Rhaenyra wearing the pants in the relationship. There are instances in real world history - most notably the deposition of Edward II by his own wife (or Catherine the Great's coup in Russia) were consorts seize power - but that would have been a different matter. A compromise could have been that Rhaenyra and Aegon co-rule the Realm as joint monarchs - as the Conqueror and the Old King seem to have done to a pretty high degree.

But then - Rhaenyra as the Queen Regnant also had Daemon as her Protector of the Realm. That is also very close to a joint rule. Daemon wasn't the king consort, but as close as one can possibly get to that position. And if Aegon had also been Protector and Hand at Rhaenyra's side he would have shared as much in her power as one could possibly.

That is also a rather likely scenario for a Dany-Jon co-rule if they ended up being married. Dany being the Queen Regnant, and Jon the Protector of the Realm leading her armies, and doing all the manly general stuff Dany doesn't really care all that much about. It would still mean Dany wears the pants, but she would share power to a very high degree. That she doesn't have a problem with that we see with the lengths she goes to allow Hizdahr a share in her government. She even allows him to calls himself king.

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  • 1 month later...
On 12/9/2017 at 9:42 AM, Ralphis Baratheon said:

That was pretty much my line of thinking. Trying to form a bond between a young Aegon II and Rhaenyra. Let Aegon grow up looking up to and worshiping his older sister who he'll someday marry. 

This would require another Rhaenyra and quite possibly another Aegon as well. You can't just tear a boy from mother's arms, throw him into some teenager's lap and expect worship. Aegon is not Rhaenyra's child and foster motherhood is not as simple as just shoving a child in and expecting love as if the child was her own. Aegon doesn't worship anyone in the story - not his dad, not his mom, not his grandfather. Rhaenyra, on other hand, never does anything that could inspire worship from her brother.

If anything, a mere physical safety would be a much more tantalizing prospect for Aegon. After all, a few years after Rhaenyra's marriage her son tries to murder his brother Aemond. Raised by Rhaenyra, Strong boys escalate from simple harassment to physical assault with training swords to outright attempted murder. In the aftermath, Rhaenyra publicly demands Aemond (a ten-year old) to be tortured. That's the attitudes that Rhaenyra had towards the other half of the family and instilled into her children. And yes, it's her, because Laenor was notoriously absent and Daemon was not yet the stepfather.

To lock up Aegon with her on Dragonstone is a sure way to make him hate Rhaenyra much harder than he did originally - because barring suicidal and masochistic tendencies, nobody is going to be pleased with the prospect of being stuck on an island with a person who acts as if murder, torture and physical violence against related minors is quite in order. Not to mention the physical danger - Aemond had the benefit of his father, his mother and the court being there to keep Rhaenyra on the leash. But if Aegon is permanently put on Dragonstone and one morning Rhaenyra doesn't like something Aegon says - who is going to protect him?

Laenor? To his credit, Laenor was never recorded calling for torture of minors, but he is notoriously never on Dragonstone.

Corlys? Corlys is a reasonable enough guy, but he is too on Driftmark or Stepstones, not on Dragonstone.

Daemon? Daemon has a history of encouraging Rhaenyra's vices, not stemming them.

In this scenario, Aegon is not safe from Rhaenyra. Or from Daemon for that matter, who would have the same interest in eliminating Aegon as he had in eliminating Laenor.

On 12/9/2017 at 9:42 AM, Ralphis Baratheon said:

Plus by the time Viserys I died it would be likely that Rhaenyra and Aegon II would have had children and an heir of their own. What would be the point in trying to split up a couple when in the end their child is already in line for the Throne?

Rhaenyra obviously demonstrates that not only is she quite unpleasant person when her brothers are considered - she is an active and present danger to life and well-being. For Rhaenyra the point would be getting rid of despised husband, for Aegon - getting rid of despised wife and also making sure she is in no position to have him assailed, tortured or murdered. That's a motive if there ever was one.

Another factor to consider is Velaryon block. Aegon/Rhaenyra marriage would piss them off since they would be passed over for the third time. Velaryons also happen to have four dragons (five if Daemon gets on board) and a fleet which is conveniently positioned to blockade Dragonstone.

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