manchester_babe

Who killed Joffrey?

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Who killed Joffrey?

Edited by manchester_babe

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I like the theory about Littlefinger being the sole perpetrator, having ordered the serving of a poisoned pie to Tyrion. The plan backfired when Joffrey ate the pie instead. The motive, Tyrion being a threat to Littlefingers further plans and aspirations. Tyrion being an intellectual threat as well as causing his bargaining chip for marriage, Sansa Stark to become unusable. The theory was quite well laid out by Preston Jacobs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkIczwc7Hz8

 

Edited by Dimmu Borgir

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On 11/27/2017 at 7:02 PM, manchester_babe said:

Who killed Joffrey?

Have you read the book to the end? It's Olenna, probably with the help of some other Tyrells (not sure which ones), in collusion with Littlefinger. 

 

Anything else (like the post above line) is a total crackpot.

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On 09/12/2017 at 4:02 PM, Annara Snow said:

Have you read the book to the end? It's Olenna, probably with the help of some other Tyrells (not sure which ones), in collusion with Littlefinger. 

 

Anything else (like the post above line) is a total crackpot.

Pretty much, it goes in hand with her asking Sansa about Joffrey's character, after that she knew it was probably only a matter of time before he got bored with Margaery as he did with Sansa

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I think Margaery was the one who actually placed the poison in the chalice. She must have been in on it because Olenna wouldn't take the risk that her grand-daughter accidentally drank the poison. It was in the wedding chalice both Joff and Margaery drank from all evening.

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5 hours ago, Zapho said:

I think Margaery was the one who actually placed the poison in the chalice. She must have been in on it because Olenna wouldn't take the risk that her grand-daughter accidentally drank the poison. It was in the wedding chalice both Joff and Margaery drank from all evening.

There's been some debate in the fandom as to who of the Tyrells was in on it and participated in it. Olenna was obviously masterminding it, Margaery had to be in it as she could have otherwise drank the poison, and there's disagreement about Garlan. Some people think he wasn't on it, others argue that he was and that he was the one who put the poison in the chalice, as he was best positioned to do so.

Mace presumably didn't know, as it was Olenna's plan and she was going behind his back so he couldn't overrule her, and Loras probably didn't know as he didn't need to know.

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On ‎11‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 1:02 PM, manchester_babe said:

Who killed Joffrey?

Lady Olenna put the poison in the pie meant for Tyrion. Joffrey ate it and died.

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27 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

Lady Olenna put the poison in the pie meant for Tyrion. Joffrey ate it and died.

Poison was in the wine, not in the pie. The pie was just a red herring, so people would think he choked on it.

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18 hours ago, Annara Snow said:

Poison was in the wine, not in the pie. The pie was just a red herring, so people would think he choked on it.

I suppose that makes sense. When people reread the books too many times, that which would have been obvious initially from the natural flow of the books sort of goes out the window.

Edited by Dimmu Borgir

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On ‎12‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 3:06 PM, Annara Snow said:

Poison was in the wine, not in the pie. The pie was just a red herring, so people would think he choked on it.

No, the wine is the red herring. The timelines between the two poisonings don't match up, the logistics of getting Tyrion to serve the wine and then Joff to place the chalice in the only spot where it can be poisoned are impossible to predict, and the motivations for the principal plotters are all wrong.

6 hours ago, Dimmu Borgir said:

I suppose that makes sense. When people reread the books too many times, that which would have been obvious initially from the natural flow of the books sort of goes out the window.

Are you saying that on the initial read it is obvious that it was the pie? Because hardly anybody seems to reach that conclusion first, both readers and characters.

It's only after several rereads and a good, hard look at the facts that the wine goes out the window.

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1 hour ago, John Suburbs said:

Are you saying that on the initial read it is obvious that it was the pie? Because hardly anybody seems to reach that conclusion first, both readers and characters.

It's only after several rereads and a good, hard look at the facts that the wine goes out the window.

No, I actually meant the opposite. Reading it initially and linearly made me believe the poison was in the wine. However, I watched the show first and there we are led to believe just that. Shortly after the poisoning Littlefinger impled to Sansa that someone (whom Sansa concludes to be Olenna) retrieved the poison from her hair net.

When I first read this, I assumed that the sequence of events would turn out to be the same as in the show; Olenna poured poison into Joffreys chalice. I felt no reason to doubt Littlefinger's explanation then and there.

Edited by Dimmu Borgir

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The pie was the red herring for the characters, not for the readers. The Tyrells wanted people to think Joffrwy choked on the pie. That was Plan A. (GRRM based the Purple Wedding on the death of Eustace of Boulogne, son of king Stephen, who choked at a feast and was rumored to be poisoned.) If that doesn't work, Plan B was to blame it on Sansa (therefore the hairnet with poison in it) and Tyrion - which waa always Littlefinger's preferred outcome (he wanted Tyrion out of the way and Sansa dependent on him, and what better way to achieve that than by having her accused of regicide).

 

The readers know (or should know) it was the wine. It's really straightforward and obvious. People just like to overthink things, even when it doesn't make sense. Like, if the pie was poisoned, who poisoned it? The cook?.Did they want to kill everyone? Really?

Edited by Annara Snow

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36 minutes ago, Annara Snow said:

The pie was the red herring for the characters, not for the readers. The Tyrells wanted people to think Joffrwy choked on the pie. That was Plan A. (GRRM based the Purple Wedding on the death of Eustace of Boulogne, son of king Stephen, who choked at a feast and was rumored to be poisoned.) If that doesn't work, Plan B was to blame it on Sansa (therefore the purple necklace with poison in it) and Tyrion - which waa always Littlefinger's preferred outcome (he wanted Tyrion out of the way and Sansa dependent on him, and what better way to achieve that than by having her accused of regicide).

 

The readers know (or should know) it was the wine. It's really straightforward and obvious. People just like to overthink things, even when it doesn't make sense. Like, if the pie was poisoned, who poisoned it? The cook?.Did they want to kill everyone? Really?

watch this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkIczwc7Hz8

It is far from obvious that the poison is in the wine. If you take into account these facts:

Littlefinger went to highgarden to praise joffrei so why would olenna ask for littlefingers help to poison joffrei?

why would olenna even need littlefingers help?

why would olena give the poison to dantos to give to sansa and hope she wears it so that she can take it from sansa's hair and take it with her into her seat? That is a totally useless and very dangerous process! a lot of things could have gone wrong.

Stannis maester that was poisoned had an immediate reaction when poisoned with the same poison. however joffrei was able to talk and eat pie. His immediate reaction was after eating pie.

The only proof we have of olenna's involvement comes from sansa saying olena touched her hair. Littlefinger only tells his story after sansa saying olenna's name.

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