manchester_babe

Why is Arya so boring?

100 posts in this topic

Speaking personally in general and not just in ASOIAF, I’ll find characters who are preoccupied with revenge as duller than they could otherwise be.

To be preoccupied with revenge is to live in the past to some exaggerated degree and it makes a character’s choices rather predictable. Arya’s personal and emotional development has lagged for me behind that of the other main characters who are not living in the past to that degree. It made Tyrion dull for me in ADWD. Cersei only escapes dullness with her absurdity. I found Catelyn at times repetitive.

I’ve seen it countless times in tv, books and movies where a character set on revenge gets it only to find themselves feeling empty with no satisfaction and no idea what to do with themselves next. They become no one if you will. So maybe lack of identity beyond revenge is part of Arya becoming simultaneously Arya Stark (I don’t think she’ll go full FM) and also No One at the same time: she'll be Arya Stark but as she defined herself by revenge for too long, other development and experiences suffered in turn making her No One as well after the list is accomplished. 

Hoping she grows out of it yet, but I do wonder if her “superpowers” arc may have had something to do with compensation to the readers for her stunted psychological and emotional development and complexity, or maybe the reverse, the superpower and pre-superpower stage hurt her development in the writing process. I found Dany significantly duller post-dragon. Some find Bran quite dull though I don’t personally. It seems like powers negatively impact the characters sometimes. I’m just not sure if that’s intentional or not? I’ve wondered more than once if the increase in magic in the later part of the series hasn’t made writing the characters a lot more challenging and if this has contributed to the longer wait for the last two books.

Edit: just saw this treatment of revenge most recently in Season 3 of Broadchurch on Netflix in the US. A father who lost his son to violence becomes consumed with revenge and in turn alienates and loses both himself and the rest of his family.

Edited by Lollygag

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6 hours ago, Lollygag said:

 

Edit: just saw this treatment of revenge most recently in Season 3 of Broadchurch on Netflix in the US. A father who lost his son to violence becomes consumed with revenge and in turn alienates and loses both himself and the rest of his family.

What does that have to do with Arya who traveled through a Warzone to get back to her family only to arrive to have them die not a hundred feet from her.  Literally Arya's family is the past for her their gone as far as she knew or beyond her reach. 

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So an 11 year old should just get over seeing their family murdered in front of their eyes? Any human should just let bygones be bygones and forgive those who killed them, despite their total lack of remorse and likelihood of doing the same thing time and time again? She cannot live openly as Arya Stark, she cannot return home. How could she possibly move on?

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4 hours ago, Darksnider05 said:

What does that have to do with Arya who traveled through a Warzone to get back to her family only to arrive to have them die not a hundred feet from her.  Literally Arya's family is the past for her their gone as far as she knew or beyond her reach. 

I identify with how other characters (Jon, Sansa, Bran, Theon, more...) have dealt with similar losses and find them more dynamic and interesting for that. It's my personal opinion.

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I think it is a matter of taste.  For example, I tend to find Daenerys's chapters to be tedious and sometimes unbearable.  And Jon, Sansa, and Catelyn all have people who find their stories to be dull.

As for Arya's story, I find it fascinating as the story of a child of privilege who is forced to survive in a war zone, and how that effects her (badly, in this case).  I will say that I am not fond of her story in Braavos.  But I have hopes that it is only a temporary detour.

5 hours ago, Horse of Kent said:

So an 11 year old should just get over seeing their family murdered in front of their eyes? Any human should just let bygones be bygones and forgive those who killed them, despite their total lack of remorse and likelihood of doing the same thing time and time again? She cannot live openly as Arya Stark, she cannot return home. How could she possibly move on?

Most of the responsible parties are already dead, like Joffrey and Gregor.  And I have doubts about the culpability of those remaining, like Sir Ilyn.  Even Cersei, for all her sins, actually wanted Ned kept alive.  As for the Freys, I expect once Lord Walder died, there will be a bloodletting.

If Arya wanted to return home, she could.  She would be welcomed with open arms in the North, something she might find out from Jeyne Poole.  Even in the Riverlands, there is a large well of Stark support, and she has friends there, as well.  How much of this she knows is doubtful, but she does have options outside the FM.  Who, I think, are a malign influence on her at this point.

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On 11/30/2017 at 6:13 AM, Pikachu101 said:

Personally I adore Arya, what makes an interesting character for you OP? 

Sansa. She made it through without a sword or any weapons. Daenerys is interesting as she slowly goes mad. 

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On 05/12/2017 at 6:15 AM, Nevets said:

If Arya wanted to return home, she could.  She would be welcomed with open arms in the North, something she might find out from Jeyne Poole.  Even in the Riverlands, there is a large well of Stark support, and she has friends there, as well.

But those lands are still held by her enemies, so she would have to hide out (not so difficult) and trust a bunch of relative strangers with her secret (more risky). She can't rely on every single Northman being loyal - just look at the Boltons. She's wise to stay out of the North until they're defeated, or if she does try to return home it would have to be as someone else until she can be absolutely safe. She's seen enough treachery.

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I don't care what happens to Arya as long as it's not good.  The story would be better off had Arya not even been created at all.  I don't want to read about this runty psycho Stark with nothing to live for but revenge.  She's a waste of pages that could otherwise be used for another pov.

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On 12/4/2017 at 8:15 PM, Nevets said:

If Arya wanted to return home, she could.  She would be welcomed with open arms in the North, something she might find out from Jeyne Poole.  Even in the Riverlands, there is a large well of Stark support, and she has friends there, as well.  How much of this she knows is doubtful, but she does have options outside the FM.  Who, I think, are a malign influence on her at this point.

Welcomed in the North with open arms by the lovely Ramsay Snow.

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9 hours ago, Agent Orange said:

I don't care what happens to Arya as long as it's not good.  The story would be better off had Arya not even been created at all.  I don't want to read about this runty psycho Stark with nothing to live for but revenge.  She's a waste of pages that could otherwise be used for another pov.

Spoken like a real Sith Lord.

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17 hours ago, manchester_babe said:

Sansa. She made it through without a sword or any weapons. Daenerys is interesting as she slowly goes mad. 

Sansa's only quality that allowed her to make it through was her unbelievable ability to withstand abuse.  Other than that she's boring af. She's constantly being used or abused (physically or psychologically) by another character.  Maybe if she starts to take some things into her own hands she'll become interesting.

10 hours ago, Agent Orange said:

I don't care what happens to Arya as long as it's not good.  The story would be better off had Arya not even been created at all.  I don't want to read about this runty psycho Stark with nothing to live for but revenge.  She's a waste of pages that could otherwise be used for another pov.

I think the Arya storyline has been boring up to this point, but has been one giant build up to what will be an exciting climax for her character.  She's learning to become an assassin who can blend in and look like other people, which is a bad [email protected]@ skill.  Not to mention if she does make it back to what's left of her family she could be the x-factor that propels them to a throne.  Let's just assume that Jon isn't dead and Sansa becomes a political player one day, they will make a pretty good team but in Westeros you can't win on chivalry and politics alone.  I think adding Arya, with the ability to pick off enemies one by one, will be the catalyst that allows them to succeed in the end.

Yes her story has been boring, but I look at it like the second Lord of The Rings book, it's just a boring build up to get us to her "ultimate form" as it were

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18 hours ago, manchester_babe said:

Sansa. She made it through without a sword or any weapons.

I love Sansa as well but Arya is so much more than swords and weapons

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I wouldn't go as far as to say that Arya is completely uninteresting. However, she's among my least favorite POVs.

She's the least believable POV. In a world where, for many characters, one small misstep has dire consequences, a scrawny 9 year old girl can slay grown men in armor left and right because she once trained with some guy for a couple of weeks. Since I don't find her realistic, she doesn't feel real to me, and I don't really emphasize with her.

Everyone becomes less interesting in Essos.

Her "vengeance vengeance vengeance" mindset makes her a rather monotonous character.

She's an arrogant child and an arrogant vigilante, so she doesn't appeal to me.

Wolf dreams are very, very tedious. Arya is not the only offender, of course, but the fact that Nymeria is a rabid wolf makes it even worse for me.

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At least she has the right for a revenge. I don't blame her character on that count. It feels justice when you see the Freys included in the RW (which is Brotherhood/LS work), or the Mountain's men being executed for their war crimes and atrocities. 

 

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Hmm, I often come across threads such as these and I just cannot relate. I didn't enjoy the Areo chapter - it just felt like a whole bunch of extrapolation - but otherwise I've enjoyed every chapter in the book just in different ways. 

I don't read Bran's last chapter in Clash but that's because it's so damn sad! 

I really like Arya. I know she's not the most original character but George has done a wonderful job of making her greater than the sum of her parts. It's not just her capacity for violence and all the things that would make Sansa shriek. It's her ability to lead others, her deep desire for companionship, her unwavering defiance. But most of all, it's her likeness to the legendary Lyanna Stark who we'll sadly never meet. I'm equally as interested in where she's heading. I'm hoping she diverts from the path of vengeance and manages to get some closure before she dies or story's end. She could also give us a lot more insight into one of Planetos's best kept secrets - The faceless men. IF the FM have a political agenda and are responsible for sending Jaquen in the first place then one of Arya's future missions may shine some light on what the real players are up to. With Euron and the IB sniffing around Oldtown, it's likely that there is a very specific item of great interest to a few different players. Making Jaquen's mission all the more interesting. 

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Arya chapters and adventures in books are one of the best if not the best.This discussion is pointless Arya is not boring its Sansa actually.

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18 hours ago, Putin said:

Arya chapters and adventures in books are one of the best if not the best.This discussion is pointless Arya is not boring its Sansa actually.

Do you know how amazing Sansa Stark is? 

Do you? Do you know what she's been through? 

Do you how much she's suffered? Or endured? Sansa is not boring. It's Arya. Arya is all about murder meanwhile Sansa's life is twisted fairytale. There's my ted talk. 

Edited by manchester_babe

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23 hours ago, Pikachu101 said:

I love Sansa as well but Arya is so much more than swords and weapons

Sansa betrayed her family to Cersei.  Not that I like the Starks but that is selfish on Sansa's part to rat out Dad's plan to escape from the city because she was hoping Cersei will stop her father from leaving.  So she can be with Joffrey.  Well, Cersei did stop Ned from leaving and did it with the ugly style of the Lannisters.

So far as Arya, yes, I find her story boring.  She's almost like a cartoon.  

Edited by Widowmaker 811

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5 hours ago, manchester_babe said:

Do you know how amazing Sansa Stark is? 

Do you? Do you know what she's been through? 

Do you how much she's suffered? Or endured? Sansa is not boring. It's Arya. Arya is all about murder meanwhile Sansa's life is twisted fairytale. There's my ted talk. 

No I don't know how amazing Sansa is.

Yes I know everything about her I own every book and DVD with every episode.  I read books 2 times and watched TV series many times so I know what she's been through.

How much she suffered or endured. Thats her fault only she told everything to Cersei . She was stupid enough to betray her father for what. Joffrey and his love .

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On 11/30/2017 at 9:46 PM, Moiraine Sedai said:

A lot of people dislike Arya.  It's not trolling to express an opinion that her story is boring.  I find Arya almost as boring as Jon.  I dislike Arya.

Just because you disagree with an opinion doesn't mean they are trolling.  

It is trolling when a poster starts a thread stating they find a character boring and provide no basis or textual evidence for their “opinion” as you call it. It becomes just another hate thread. But then again, judging from your posts, just hating on a character and dissing on the character without any textual basis or rationale seems to be your modus operandi.

Many posters (including myself) on this forum dislike certain characters or find their arcs boring but they back their views with arguments and textual evidence.

Edited by teej6

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