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Why is Arya so boring?

111 posts in this topic

On 12/3/2017 at 9:25 PM, Lollygag said:

To be preoccupied with revenge is to live in the past to some exaggerated degree and it makes a character’s choices rather predictable. Arya’s personal and emotional development has lagged for me behind that of the other main characters who are not living in the past to that degree. It made Tyrion dull for me in ADWD. Cersei only escapes dullness with her absurdity. I found Catelyn at times repetitive.

I’ve seen it countless times in tv, books and movies where a character set on revenge gets it only to find themselves feeling empty with no satisfaction and no idea what to do with themselves next. They become no one if you will. So maybe lack of identity beyond revenge is part of Arya becoming simultaneously Arya Stark (I don’t think she’ll go full FM) and also No One at the same time: she'll be Arya Stark but as she defined herself by revenge for too long, other development and experiences suffered in turn making her No One as well after the list is accomplished. 

Arya is so misunderstood, not only in the books but in the fandom. I don't feel as though Arya is absolutely consumed by revenge. Yes, revenge is important to her narrative but I wouldn't say its the main theme of her story arc. Hatred does drive her, but it isn't what she's all about. In the show it can appear this way, but D&D both don't seem concerned about character motivations and stuff like that. She isn't defined by revenge, she's defined by survival.

Arya isn't the Bride from Kill Bill, she doesn't gallivant around Westeros offing people and crossing em off her list as she goes. It's more of a thing helping her cope with the trauma of being separated from her family while they get murdered one-by-one. From witnessing the smallfolk be terrorized, raped, mutilated. It's a coping mechanism for when she's feeling small and powerless. In fact, most of the people on her list don't even die by her hand. Arya really only kills out of self-defense anyway. I think she kills The Tickler and Raff the Sweetling, both because of coincidence.. she doesn't go seeking them out. Plus, Arya is clearly frightened of the Tickler:

"The Tickler was sliding around the wall to get behind him. She grabbed the second wine cup and flung it at him, but he was quicker than the squire had been and ducked his head in time. The look he gave her then was cold with promise. Is there gold hidden in the village? She could hear him ask. The stupid squire was clutching the edge of a table and pulling himself to his knees. Arya could taste the beginnings of panic in the back of her throat. Fear cuts deeper than swords. Fears cuts deeper…" ACoK

She's panicked enough that she feels the need to recite the teachings of Syrio, something she does when she's afraid and needs strength. Arya isn't a serial killer who gets off on killing, she's just a little girl who's endured a bunch of shit and was forced to adapt in order to simply not die. Her prayer list of names is less of a mission and more of something to comfort her when she feels the most out of control. The list is about justice and overcoming fear. Not everyone who's wronged her is even on the list. Most of the people on the list are people who hurt her family or friends in some way while she was incapable of doing anything about it. Reciting the names gives her a small sense of control when she feels weak and hopeless. She's full of hatred, but she's not a sicko like The Hound who thinks killing is the sweetest thing there is.

"Arya watched and listened and polished her hates the way Gendry had once polished his horned helm. Dunsen wore those bull’s horns now, and she hated him for it. She hated Polliver for Needle, and she hated old Chiswyck who thought he was funny. And Raff the Sweetling, who’d driven his spear through Lommy’s throat, she hated even more. She hated Ser Amory Lorch for Yoren, and she hated Ser Meryn Trant for Syrio, the Hound for killing the butcher’s boy Mycah, and Ser Ilyn and Prince Joffrey and the queen for the sake of her father and Fat Tom and Desmond and the rest, and even for Lady, Sansa’s wolf. The Tickler was almost too scary to hate. At times she could almost forget he was still with them; when he was not asking questions, he was just another soldier, quieter than most, with a face like a thousand other men.

Every night Arya would say their names. “Ser Gregor,” she’d whisper to her stone pillow. “Dunsen, Polliver, Chiswyck, Raff the Sweetling. The Tickler and the Hound. Ser Amory, Ser Ilyn, Ser Meryn, King Joffrey, Queen Cersei.” Back in Winterfell, Arya had prayed with her mother in the sept and with her father in the godswood, but there were no gods on the road to Harrenhal, and her names were the only prayer she cared to remember..." ACoK

Arya doesn't join the Faceless Men because she's some bloodthirsty assassin. She was dead on her feet, tired of being captured by her enemies. Tired of running, of losing everyone she holds dear (Syrio, Yoren, Lommy), of feeling abandoned by her pack (Hot Pie, Gendry). Her main theme is home, of family and survival. She even tries to book passage to the Wall to reunite with Jon! She can't afford to sail to Eastwatch and has nowhere else she can go. The Faceless Men are an opportunity to escape a war-torn Westeros. When the Kindly Man asks her about the death prayer, this is what she says:

“They’re people I hate. I want them to die.”

“We hear many such prayers in this House.” AFFC

Notice how he doesn't call her a liar? Because he would know if she was.

“Is that why you have come to us?” the kindly man went on. “To learn our arts, so you may kill these men you hate?”

Arya did not know how to answer that. “Maybe.”
“Then you have come to the wrong place. It is not for you to say who shall live and who shall die. That gift belongs to Him of Many Faces. We are but his servants, sworn to do his will.”

“Oh.” Arya glanced at the statues that stood along the walls, candles glimmering round their feet. “Which god is he?”

“Why, all of them,” said the priest in black and white."AFFC

She didn't even know how to answer. If vengeance is truly her endgame, wouldn't she seem a little more despondent at the idea of not being able to carry out her personal vows...? Arya isn't a sociopath or a sadist or a boring character for being fixated on her trauma. She's not stuck in the past, she desperately is trying to escape it. She's just a lone wolf who wants to find her pack. 

Y'all better recognize 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Forest Lass said:

Arya is so misunderstood, not only in the books but in the fandom. I don't feel as though Arya is absolutely consumed by revenge. Yes, revenge is important to her narrative but I wouldn't say its the main theme of her story arc. Hatred does drive her, but it isn't what she's all about. In the show it can appear this way, but D&D both don't seem concerned about character motivations and stuff like that. She isn't defined by revenge, she's defined by survival.

Arya isn't the Bride from Kill Bill, she doesn't gallivant around Westeros offing people and crossing em off her list as she goes. It's more of a thing helping her cope with the trauma of being separated from her family while they get murdered one-by-one. From witnessing the smallfolk be terrorized, raped, mutilated. It's a coping mechanism for when she's feeling small and powerless. In fact, most of the people on her list don't even die by her hand. Arya really only kills out of self-defense anyway. I think she kills The Tickler and Raff the Sweetling, both because of coincidence.. she doesn't go seeking them out. Plus, Arya is clearly frightened of the Tickler:

"The Tickler was sliding around the wall to get behind him. She grabbed the second wine cup and flung it at him, but he was quicker than the squire had been and ducked his head in time. The look he gave her then was cold with promise. Is there gold hidden in the village? She could hear him ask. The stupid squire was clutching the edge of a table and pulling himself to his knees. Arya could taste the beginnings of panic in the back of her throat. Fear cuts deeper than swords. Fears cuts deeper…" ACoK

She's panicked enough that she feels the need to recite the teachings of Syrio, something she does when she's afraid and needs strength. Arya isn't a serial killer who gets off on killing, she's just a little girl who's endured a bunch of shit and was forced to adapt in order to simply not die. Her prayer list of names is less of a mission and more of something to comfort her when she feels the most out of control. The list is about justice and overcoming fear. Not everyone who's wronged her is even on the list. Most of the people on the list are people who hurt her family or friends in some way while she was incapable of doing anything about it. Reciting the names gives her a small sense of control when she feels weak and hopeless. She's full of hatred, but she's not a sicko like The Hound who thinks killing is the sweetest thing there is.

"Arya watched and listened and polished her hates the way Gendry had once polished his horned helm. Dunsen wore those bull’s horns now, and she hated him for it. She hated Polliver for Needle, and she hated old Chiswyck who thought he was funny. And Raff the Sweetling, who’d driven his spear through Lommy’s throat, she hated even more. She hated Ser Amory Lorch for Yoren, and she hated Ser Meryn Trant for Syrio, the Hound for killing the butcher’s boy Mycah, and Ser Ilyn and Prince Joffrey and the queen for the sake of her father and Fat Tom and Desmond and the rest, and even for Lady, Sansa’s wolf. The Tickler was almost too scary to hate. At times she could almost forget he was still with them; when he was not asking questions, he was just another soldier, quieter than most, with a face like a thousand other men.

Every night Arya would say their names. “Ser Gregor,” she’d whisper to her stone pillow. “Dunsen, Polliver, Chiswyck, Raff the Sweetling. The Tickler and the Hound. Ser Amory, Ser Ilyn, Ser Meryn, King Joffrey, Queen Cersei.” Back in Winterfell, Arya had prayed with her mother in the sept and with her father in the godswood, but there were no gods on the road to Harrenhal, and her names were the only prayer she cared to remember..." ACoK

Arya doesn't join the Faceless Men because she's some bloodthirsty assassin. She was dead on her feet, tired of being captured by her enemies. Tired of running, of losing everyone she holds dear (Syrio, Yoren, Lommy), of feeling abandoned by her pack (Hot Pie, Gendry). Her main theme is home, of family and survival. She even tries to book passage to the Wall to reunite with Jon! She can't afford to sail to Eastwatch and has nowhere else she can go. The Faceless Men are an opportunity to escape a war-torn Westeros. When the Kindly Man asks her about the death prayer, this is what she says:

“They’re people I hate. I want them to die.”

“We hear many such prayers in this House.” AFFC

Notice how he doesn't call her a liar? Because he would know if she was.

“Is that why you have come to us?” the kindly man went on. “To learn our arts, so you may kill these men you hate?”

Arya did not know how to answer that. “Maybe.”
“Then you have come to the wrong place. It is not for you to say who shall live and who shall die. That gift belongs to Him of Many Faces. We are but his servants, sworn to do his will.”

“Oh.” Arya glanced at the statues that stood along the walls, candles glimmering round their feet. “Which god is he?”

“Why, all of them,” said the priest in black and white."AFFC

She didn't even know how to answer. If vengeance is truly her endgame, wouldn't she seem a little more despondent at the idea of not being able to carry out her personal vows...? Arya isn't a sociopath or a sadist or a boring character for being fixated on her trauma. She's not stuck in the past, she desperately is trying to escape it. She's just a lone wolf who wants to find her pack. 

Y'all better recognize 

Can I give you a virtual hug? I agree with you 99%!

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5 hours ago, Lady Dacey said:

Can I give you a virtual hug? I agree with you 99%!

aye, you can! 

I love your avatar, its like a little fallopian fuck you hahaha

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On 1/7/2018 at 3:00 AM, Forest Lass said:

Arya is so misunderstood, not only in the books but in the fandom. I don't feel as though Arya is absolutely consumed by revenge. Yes, revenge is important to her narrative but I wouldn't say its the main theme of her story arc. Hatred does drive her, but it isn't what she's all about. In the show it can appear this way, but D&D both don't seem concerned about character motivations and stuff like that. She isn't defined by revenge, she's defined by survival.

Arya isn't the Bride from Kill Bill, she doesn't gallivant around Westeros offing people and crossing em off her list as she goes. It's more of a thing helping her cope with the trauma of being separated from her family while they get murdered one-by-one. From witnessing the smallfolk be terrorized, raped, mutilated. It's a coping mechanism for when she's feeling small and powerless. In fact, most of the people on her list don't even die by her hand. Arya really only kills out of self-defense anyway. I think she kills The Tickler and Raff the Sweetling, both because of coincidence.. she doesn't go seeking them out. Plus, Arya is clearly frightened of the Tickler:

"The Tickler was sliding around the wall to get behind him. She grabbed the second wine cup and flung it at him, but he was quicker than the squire had been and ducked his head in time. The look he gave her then was cold with promise. Is there gold hidden in the village? She could hear him ask. The stupid squire was clutching the edge of a table and pulling himself to his knees. Arya could taste the beginnings of panic in the back of her throat. Fear cuts deeper than swords. Fears cuts deeper…" ACoK

She's panicked enough that she feels the need to recite the teachings of Syrio, something she does when she's afraid and needs strength. Arya isn't a serial killer who gets off on killing, she's just a little girl who's endured a bunch of shit and was forced to adapt in order to simply not die. Her prayer list of names is less of a mission and more of something to comfort her when she feels the most out of control. The list is about justice and overcoming fear. Not everyone who's wronged her is even on the list. Most of the people on the list are people who hurt her family or friends in some way while she was incapable of doing anything about it. Reciting the names gives her a small sense of control when she feels weak and hopeless. She's full of hatred, but she's not a sicko like The Hound who thinks killing is the sweetest thing there is.

"Arya watched and listened and polished her hates the way Gendry had once polished his horned helm. Dunsen wore those bull’s horns now, and she hated him for it. She hated Polliver for Needle, and she hated old Chiswyck who thought he was funny. And Raff the Sweetling, who’d driven his spear through Lommy’s throat, she hated even more. She hated Ser Amory Lorch for Yoren, and she hated Ser Meryn Trant for Syrio, the Hound for killing the butcher’s boy Mycah, and Ser Ilyn and Prince Joffrey and the queen for the sake of her father and Fat Tom and Desmond and the rest, and even for Lady, Sansa’s wolf. The Tickler was almost too scary to hate. At times she could almost forget he was still with them; when he was not asking questions, he was just another soldier, quieter than most, with a face like a thousand other men.

Every night Arya would say their names. “Ser Gregor,” she’d whisper to her stone pillow. “Dunsen, Polliver, Chiswyck, Raff the Sweetling. The Tickler and the Hound. Ser Amory, Ser Ilyn, Ser Meryn, King Joffrey, Queen Cersei.” Back in Winterfell, Arya had prayed with her mother in the sept and with her father in the godswood, but there were no gods on the road to Harrenhal, and her names were the only prayer she cared to remember..." ACoK

Arya doesn't join the Faceless Men because she's some bloodthirsty assassin. She was dead on her feet, tired of being captured by her enemies. Tired of running, of losing everyone she holds dear (Syrio, Yoren, Lommy), of feeling abandoned by her pack (Hot Pie, Gendry). Her main theme is home, of family and survival. She even tries to book passage to the Wall to reunite with Jon! She can't afford to sail to Eastwatch and has nowhere else she can go. The Faceless Men are an opportunity to escape a war-torn Westeros. When the Kindly Man asks her about the death prayer, this is what she says:

“They’re people I hate. I want them to die.”

“We hear many such prayers in this House.” AFFC

Notice how he doesn't call her a liar? Because he would know if she was.

“Is that why you have come to us?” the kindly man went on. “To learn our arts, so you may kill these men you hate?”

Arya did not know how to answer that. “Maybe.”
“Then you have come to the wrong place. It is not for you to say who shall live and who shall die. That gift belongs to Him of Many Faces. We are but his servants, sworn to do his will.”

“Oh.” Arya glanced at the statues that stood along the walls, candles glimmering round their feet. “Which god is he?”

“Why, all of them,” said the priest in black and white."AFFC

She didn't even know how to answer. If vengeance is truly her endgame, wouldn't she seem a little more despondent at the idea of not being able to carry out her personal vows...? Arya isn't a sociopath or a sadist or a boring character for being fixated on her trauma. She's not stuck in the past, she desperately is trying to escape it. She's just a lone wolf who wants to find her pack. 

Y'all better recognize 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for providing your ideas , but nothing you said makes her less boring to me. You conveniently provided quotes demonstrating exactly what I meant by the repetitive nature and the predictability of her thoughts and feelings which is what I find dull. Hate, hate, hate, hate, hate...repeat (yet again) list of people she wants dead. What I find interesting or dull isn’t up for debate just like how my dislike of sushi and opera isn’t up for debate. Not saying they’re bad or low quality or that I don’t understand them, just that I don’t enjoy them. I have a low tolerance for repetition in general and that extends to later-in-the-series Arya. And most of the characters are about survival. I just prefer the other characters’ brand of survival which limits the repetitive hate, revenge, and anger despite them having a much reason to feel those things as Arya.

Where did I say that Arya is entirely defined by revenge right now? I was talking about the possibility in the future which given the pervasiveness of the theme of revenge turning people to No One both in ASOIAF and outside of it, it has to be considered as a possibility. I didn't say she had no other aspects to her character. I didn't call her a psychopath. I didn't say she was running around Westeros Kill Bill style, I was commenting on her repetitive thoughts on revenge for which you were kind enough to provide quotes. I didn't say she had no feelings like fear. Yes, I know Arya’s revenge is a coping mechanism. It’s still a boring-as-hell coping mechanism for me. I feel like you were projecting some generalization onto me and replying to that rather that replying to what I actually said.

.And not liking something does not automatically mean they don’t understand it. That's condescending.

 

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2 hours ago, Lollygag said:

I was commenting on her repetitive thoughts on revenge for which you were kind enough to provide quotes. I didn't say she had no feelings like fear. Yes, I know Arya’s revenge is a coping mechanism. It’s still a boring-as-hell coping mechanism for me.

We are definetely entitled to have different tastes and opinions, but I do find your reasoning a little weird. Which is OK. I'm not confronting you on it. I do want to understand somethings though. 

Many characters have repetitive thoughts and coping mechanisms ('where do whores go' and 'if I look back I'm lost' are exemples of each). At the same time, said characters have a story arc, they show personality development, they shed light into what's happening around Planetos. Same is true for Arya. While I understand you find revenge boring (I mylself find revenge stories underwhelming, while I do like the moral dilemmas and ethical provocations we get about the differences and similarities between justice and revenge even in Arya's chapters) you did state that Arya isn't only about revenge and that she's capable of other feelings. Do you also find all other aspects of Arya's story boring? Learning about the state of the Riverlands during the war, meeting the brotherhood without banners, seeing Harrenhal from a servant's perspective, getting to know Bravoos... and all that she elaborates about those things? 

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Here comes!

I also find Arya boring. Now it was some time since I did a full read-through on the series but my main "complaints" about Arya are the following. BUT before I start I'd like to state that I don't actively dislike Arya as I think that the character is well developed on its own and its not a chore to read her chapters, but I do find them less interesting than many other POVs.

So, why do I find Arya boring? When comparing my interest in other fighter/adventerous women characters like Asha or Brienne, whom I did enjoy immensly, I think that its that there's no greater hook to make her decisions and adventures interesting for me. Arya goes on an adventure to get back home but to me there's precious little left to it beyond it for me. Having considered it I think that my lack of interest is cheifly down to three factors; I'm not particularly invested in House Stark so I don't have that great interest in Stark characters due to their connection with other Stark characters, Arya is a child so the internal dialogue in her head and the interactions with other people suffers from this and finally there's no bigger theme around her that really interests me. I know there are greater themes in Arya's arch but I don't find those themes to be really interesting to me as they connect to Arya personally. While Asha has her "reform the Ironmen" and Brienne her chivalry themes that went with, I didn't pick up something similar for Arya. And likewise I actually find Bran to be a boring character as well. Thus I personally think that what really sinks the child characters for me is that they are not as developed in their thoughts and don't have the same kind of mature interraction with other people like adult characters can have.

What I did on the other hand enjoy with Arya was the grassroots view of the war and how it affects the little people. That was the most interesting aspect of her storyline which is often ignored in the greater political plot of Westeros. And I think that also shows the cynical side of big politics in how all the human misery that this noble competition creates is essentially seen as irrelevant.

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3 hours ago, Lady Dacey said:

We are definetely entitled to have different tastes and opinions, but I do find your reasoning a little weird. Which is OK. I'm not confronting you on it. I do want to understand somethings though. 

Many characters have repetitive thoughts and coping mechanisms ('where do whores go' and 'if I look back I'm lost' are exemples of each). At the same time, said characters have a story arc, they show personality development, they shed light into what's happening around Planetos. Same is true for Arya. While I understand you find revenge boring (I mylself find revenge stories underwhelming, while I do like the moral dilemmas and ethical provocations we get about the differences and similarities between justice and revenge even in Arya's chapters) you did state that Arya isn't only about revenge and that she's capable of other feelings. Do you also find all other aspects of Arya's story boring? Learning about the state of the Riverlands during the war, meeting the brotherhood without banners, seeing Harrenhal from a servant's perspective, getting to know Bravoos... and all that she elaborates about those things? 

Any character's or person's prioritization of revenge/justice is always going to be something I have limited capacity to relate to. I actually forget that I'm angry with people and as such I'm awful at holding a grudge.There are only so many hours in day and to the extent that thoughts and actions are devoted to revenge/anger/hate, it comes at the expense of other things which I find more interesting.

I do get tired of where do whores go and If I look back I am lost, but while the phrases are tiresome, the sentiments behind them still make the Tyrion and Dany rich characters in this aspect as it can feed into their characters in very subtle ways when you look for them. I can't say that for Arya's list. Anger, hate and revenge only seem to go so far. As you say, there are moral and ethical dilemmas, but those are also of lesser interest to me personally.

I actually really like Arya's arc (early Arya is still a favorite) and I see the revenge, hatred and anger as getting in the way of a more interesting telling of her survival story which makes it especially frustrating. Some people see Arya's hatred/anger/revenge as inevitable to her condition and experiences, but when we look at other characters who have experienced their own horrors with those feelings kept more in proportion to what they are experiencing, I disagree with that opinion emphatically. I see it as entirely possible to write Arya's journey without so much emphasis on those qualities as has been done with other characters and this is what makes me rather pessimistic about where her story is going which is especially sad when one thinks of AGOT Arya. I think GRRM is making a point here.

Edited by Lollygag

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1 hour ago, Lollygag said:

Any character's or person's prioritization of revenge/justice is always going to be something I have limited capacity to relate to. I actually forget that I'm angry with people and as such I'm awful at holding a grudge.There are only so many hours in day and to the extent that thoughts and actions are devoted to revenge/anger/hate, it comes at the expense of other things which I find more interesting.

I do get tired of where do whores go and If I look back I am lost, but while the phrases are tiresome, the sentiments behind them still make the Tyrion and Dany rich characters in this aspect as it can feed into their characters in very subtle ways when you look for them. I can't say that for Arya's list. Anger, hate and revenge only seem to go so far. As you say, there are moral and ethical dilemmas, but those are also of lesser interest to me personally.

I actually really like Arya's arc (early Arya is still a favorite) and I see the revenge, hatred and anger as getting in the way of a more interesting telling of her survival story which makes it especially frustrating. Some people see Arya's hatred/anger/revenge as inevitable to her condition and experiences, but when we look at other characters who have experienced their own horrors with those feelings kept more in proportion to what they are experiencing, I disagree with that opinion emphatically. I see it as entirely possible to write Arya's journey without so much emphasis on those qualities as has been done with other characters and this is what makes me rather pessimistic about where her story is going which is especially sad when one thinks of AGOT Arya. I think GRRM is making a point here.

I think I understand where your coming from. I do read Arya under a very different light though. I truly don't see hate or revenge as major motivating feelings in her. They are there, but they're basically armour. I think we can often glimpse Arya's true colours under her detached mo if we read carefully.  If I did see hate and revenge as such a big part of her as you seem to, I would probably find her boring too. I thing Martin is a great writer and that he can convey many different layers of meaning when writing. This is specially true in the characters psyche, where what they think and feel isn't spelled out to us, it's subtly constructed. So many things that (I think) you seem to taking at face value, I read as Arya sort of "lying to herself". It might be just my whishful thinking, of course... 

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On 1/12/2018 at 8:10 AM, Lollygag said:

Thank you for providing your ideas , but nothing you said makes her less boring to me. You conveniently provided quotes demonstrating exactly what I meant by the repetitive nature and the predictability of her thoughts and feelings which is what I find dull. Hate, hate, hate, hate, hate...repeat (yet again) list of people she wants dead. What I find interesting or dull isn’t up for debate just like how my dislike of sushi and opera isn’t up for debate. Not saying they’re bad or low quality or that I don’t understand them, just that I don’t enjoy them. I have a low tolerance for repetition in general and that extends to later-in-the-series Arya. And most of the characters are about survival. I just prefer the other characters’ brand of survival which limits the repetitive hate, revenge, and anger despite them having a much reason to feel those things as Arya.

 

Where did I say that Arya is entirely defined by revenge right now? I was talking about the possibility in the future which given the pervasiveness of the theme of revenge turning people to No One both in ASOIAF and outside of it, it has to be considered as a possibility. I didn't say she had no other aspects to her character. I didn't call her a psychopath. I didn't say she was running around Westeros Kill Bill style, I was commenting on her repetitive thoughts on revenge for which you were kind enough to provide quotes. I didn't say she had no feelings like fear. Yes, I know Arya’s revenge is a coping mechanism. It’s still a boring-as-hell coping mechanism for me. I feel like you were projecting some generalization onto me and replying to that rather that replying to what I actually said.

.And not liking something does not automatically mean they don’t understand it. That's condescending.

 

It wasn't my intention to make blanket statements or accuse you of anything saying things you didnt, my apologies! I just responded to what I saw said in this thread as a whole and wanted to touch up on a few things you had put previously as well. I'm not trying to change your mind either, there are some characters you just don't like and that the way it is. There are characters I know I personally relate to but still don't enjoy

Edited by Forest Lass

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1 hour ago, Forest Lass said:

 

It wasn't my intention to make blanket statements or accuse you of anything saying things you didnt, my apologies! I just responded to what I saw said in this thread as a whole and wanted to touch up on a few things you had put previously as well. I'm not trying to change your mind either, there are some characters you just don't like and that the way it is. There are characters I know I personally relate to but still don't enjoy

No worries!

You made great arguments against those who toss the psychopath label casually at Arya without really comprehending the meaning of the word or understanding the character, so thank you!

:cheers:

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