AlaskanSandman Posted November 30, 2017 Author Share Posted November 30, 2017 If any one wants a quick narrative. Garth was the God on Earth Two of his sons went to war for their sister and her throne. This set off the curse placed on their father Garth, effecting the Grey King. (Ghis?) The Andals were the original Valyrians before the Empire of the Dawn mixed into them giving some dragons (Though some room to argue they were the ghiscari as the Order of the Greenhand does) The curse is only activated by ruling all 9 kingdoms, hence the wall being built and no kings or cities North of the Wall, hence Valyria torching Hardhome. The Others though, never fully defeated, still exist beyond the Wall. Jon, and Aegon are the current brothers at war for their sister/throne, Daenerys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted November 30, 2017 Author Share Posted November 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said: I'm not really responding to every fanciful point you raised. Because I don't think they have much substance, to be honest. With regard to Dawn, though, written records in Westeros only go back to the time of the Andal arrival. Which seems to have been around 2000-3000 years ago. That's why George says things get a bit murky more than a couple of thousand years ago with regard to Dawn. Because the histories before that in WESTEROS are not that clear. However, in Essos, and especially in Ghis, written records go back for 8000 years. It gives you much better sources for ancient events. As for Winterfell. I must have missed that one. I don't recall what point you made with regard to Winterfell. Other than seeing a whole bunch of attempts to link stuff in many different parts of the world, to some convenient date 2000 years ago. Lmfao ok So is Dawn a magical sword forged once from a fallen star, or some gimmick reproduced every couple thousand years? And some of those other things i listed are not relevant to anything, other than theyre are simply things that happened. https://asearchoficeandfire.com/?q=Zamettar&scope[]=twoiaf Just try typing in Thousand years, or Hundred years. They're not attempts to link crap, George made the links. Im just collecting them together lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted November 30, 2017 Author Share Posted November 30, 2017 17 minutes ago, White Ravens said: LOL "Readers are gullible for believing the fake news of the Maesters. Sad!" I was hoping some one would get that and get a little laugh hahah thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 16 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said: If any one wants a quick narrative. Garth was the God on Earth Two of his sons went to war for their sister and her throne. This set off the curse placed on their father Garth, effecting the Grey King. (Ghis?) The Andals were the original Valyrians before the Empire of the Dawn mixed into them giving some dragons (Though some room to argue they were the ghiscari as the Order of the Greenhand does) The curse is only activated by ruling all 9 kingdoms, hence the wall being built and no kings or cities North of the Wall, hence Valyria torching Hardhome. The Others though, never fully defeated, still exist beyond the Wall. Jon, and Aegon are the current brothers at war for their sister/throne, Daenerys. No, no and no. None of that is supported by the evidence. And what's more, that doesn't fit George's style. He created the legends of Garth and the like as a reflection of the ancient weather/nature related cults of our own world. This narrative is a nice one, but it is not the Ice and Fire narrative. It is too neat. George created a more primitive, clan based, largely fictional founding myth for Westeros. Garth was likely a bunch of different priests. And Brandon of the Bloody Blade some warlord. And the Grey King some made up deity. Etc. Etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted November 30, 2017 Author Share Posted November 30, 2017 17 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said: Sic Consider these listed events, all of which your more than welcome to double check Quote 1300 - Andals take Old Town and Hightowers, bringing Glass Candles with them and Exiling House Manderly Falcon Crown made and first worn by Ser Artys Arryn (Crowned in Old Town?) These thing are all veryyyyyyy coincidental to be happening all at once. Quote The World of Ice and Fire - The Reach: Oldtown When the Andals came, the Hightowers were amongst the first lords of Westeros to welcome them. "Wars are bad for trade," said Lord Dorian Hightower, when he set aside his wife of twenty years, the mother of his children, to take an Andal princess as his bride. His grandson Lord Damon (the Devout) was the first to accept the Faith. To honor the new gods, he built the first sept in Oldtown and six more elsewhere in his realm. When he died prematurely of a bad belly, Septon Robeson became regent for his newborn son, ruling Oldtown in all but name for the next twenty years and ultimately becoming the first High Septon. The boy he raised and trained, Lord Triston Hightower, raised the Starry Sept in his honor after his passing. Quote A Feast for Crows - Prologue the Starry Sept that had been the seat of the High Septon for a thousand years before Aegon landed at King's Landing. They made a mighty music. Though not so sweet as one small nightingale. Quote The World of Ice and Fire - The Reign of the Dragons: The Conquest Then Lady Sharra sent for the three crowns (her own regent's coronet, her son's small crown, and the Falcon Crown of Mountain and Vale that the Arryn kings had worn for a thousand years), and surrendered them to Queen Visenya, along with the swords of her garrison. And it was said afterward that the little king flew thrice about the summit of the Giant's Lance and landed to find himself a little lord. Thus did Visenya Targaryen bring the Vale of Arryn into her brother's realm. Quote The World of Ice and Fire - The Vale: House Arryn The true tale of House Arryn contains neither giants nor griffins nor huge falcons, yet from the day Ser Artys first donned the Falcon Crown to the present, But sure, im just totally making these connections out of thin air Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted November 30, 2017 Author Share Posted November 30, 2017 Just now, Free Northman Reborn said: No, no and no. None of that is supported by the evidence. And what's more, that doesn't fit George's style. He created the legends of Garth and the like as a reflection of the ancient weather/nature related cults of our own world. This narrative is a nice one, but it is not the Ice and Fire narrative. It is too neat. George created a more primitive, clan based, largely fictional founding myth for Westeros. Garth was likely a bunch of different priests. And Brandon of the Bloody Blade some warlord. And the Grey King some made up deity. Etc. Etc. Huh? Did you actually read the thread? Garth= God on Earth = Life (Fire), Death (Ice), and Fertility. his children? The Grey King= Salt King, Old Way, Walrus men tribes, Ice (Jon) Durran (Azor)= Rock King, New Way, Antler Men tribes, Fire (Aegon) Nissa Nissa (Daenerys)= Fertility, Mother of Dragons. (Daenerys) (All children of Rhaegar, thus our two brothers and sister.) This is hidden in his legend of Serwyn of the Mirror Shield and him constantly paired with Aemon the Dragon Knight, and was is said of Serwyn in comparison to Aemon. That's the narrative. Quote The World of Ice and Fire - Ancient History: The Long Night Archmaester Fomas's Lies of the Ancients—though little regarded these days for its erroneous claims regarding the founding of Valyria and certain lineal claims in the Reach and westerlands— The World of Ice and Fire - The Reach: The Gardener Kings In those centuries of trial and tumult, the Reach produced many a fearless warrior. From that day to this, the singers have celebrated the deeds of knights like Serwyn of the Mirror Shield, Davos the Dragonslayer, Roland of the Horn, and the Knight Without Armor—and the legendary kings who led them, among them Garth V (Hammer of the Dornish), Gwayne I (the Gallant), Gyles I (the Woe), Gareth II (the Grim), Garth VI (the Morningstar), and Gordan I (Grey-Eyes). The World of Ice and Fire - Ancient History: The Age of Heroes But when the singers number Serwyn of the Mirror Shield as one of the Kingsguard—an institution that was only formed during the reign of Aegon the Conqueror—we can see why it is that few of these tales can ever be trusted. The septons who first wrote them down took what details suited them and added others, and the singers changed them—sometimes beyond all recognition—for the sake of a warm place in some lord's hall. In such a way does some longdead First Man become a knight who follows the Seven and guards the Targaryen kings thousands of years after he lived (if he ever did). The legion of boys and youths made ignorant of the past history of Westeros by these foolish tales cannot be numbered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 minute ago, AlaskanSandman said: Consider these listed events, all of which your more than welcome to double check These thing are all veryyyyyyy coincidental to be happening all at once. But sure, im just totally making these connections out of thin air What connections? The Andal arrival was around 2000-3000 years ago, from the best evidence we have. I give it that range, because let's imagine it as some early Andal pirates or raiders making scattered landfall from around 3000 years ago, with the Andal migration in full commencing say around 2500 years ago, and then petering out around 1700 years ago or thereabouts. Very rough timeline, of course. So from the Vale being conquered say around 2500 years ago or so, it would have taken a number of centuries for the Andal influence to spread across all of the South. In light of this, the times you refer to all fall within that broad timeframe. But this has nothing to do with the Andals being Valyrians, or the Long Night also being around 2000 years ago and whathaveyou. This just deals with the Andal arrival in Westeros. And George has confirmed that this was as a result of Valyrian pressure, although I still struggle to understand why the Andals were suffering from this pressure a thousand years earlier than the Rhoynar, who are a lot closer to Valyria. Unless the Rhoynar were just able to resist it for longer, being a stronger, more advanced civilization at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted November 30, 2017 Author Share Posted November 30, 2017 Aemon was of course, A knight in the Kingsguard and brother to the Targaryen King, both loved their sister Naerys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted November 30, 2017 Author Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Free Northman Reborn said: What connections? The Andal arrival was around 2000-3000 years ago, from the best evidence we have. I give it that range, because let's imagine it as some early Andal pirates or raiders making scattered landfall from around 3000 years ago, with the Andal migration in full commencing say around 2500 years ago, and then petering out around 1700 years ago or thereabouts. Very rough timeline, of course. So from the Vale being conquered say around 2500 years ago or so, it would have taken a number of centuries for the Andal influence to spread across all of the South. In light of this, the times you refer to all fall within that broad timeframe. But this has nothing to do with the Andals being Valyrians, or the Long Night also being around 2000 years ago and whathaveyou. This just deals with the Andal arrival in Westeros. And George has confirmed that this was as a result of Valyrian pressure, although I still struggle to understand why the Andals were suffering from this pressure a thousand years earlier than the Rhoynar, who are a lot closer to Valyria. Unless the Rhoynar were just able to resist it for longer, being a stronger, more advanced civilization at the time. Face palm, that's literally all i can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Just now, AlaskanSandman said: Face palm, that's literally all i can do. Nothing more to be achieved here, I guess. Look, I take note of your random quotes. But I think you are using them to artificially construct a narrative that does not exist. They simply don't support what you think they do. Martin has no purpose in portraying a general semi-realistic history of the world only for it to secretly be totally wrong. Sure, there are a lot of inaccuracies and mistakes. But the general narrative is pretty clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted November 30, 2017 Author Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Free Northman Reborn said: Nothing more to be achieved here, I guess. Look, I take note of your random quotes. But I think you are using them to artificially construct a narrative that does not exist. They simply don't support what you think they do. Martin has no purpose in portraying a general semi-realistic history of the world only for it to secretly be totally wrong. Sure, there are a lot of inaccuracies and mistakes. But the general narrative is pretty clear. Lol Idk what you hoped to achieve or think you achieved but ok. I wasn't even sure you were grasping the point of the post till the end, but then i saw you didn't. The whole point of the post, was to take all those things said, that contradict, and construct a new one (artificial if you wan't to call it, but i didn't make it up lol, this is still all GRRM.). There is plenty of reason to tell a b.s. history if the people telling it have reason to be lying and it's actually an active aspect of his narrative, as many others do believe. Im far from the first person to doubt the history told, nice try though. Alot of people just like you parrot the main narrative put forth by the Maester, the same people who deny the existence of the Others. With the same conviction. Doesn't make you right, or wrong. That's the point of this post. To clearly examine the "other" possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted November 30, 2017 Author Share Posted November 30, 2017 Maybe i am wrong about it all, but i think there is definitely a narrative hidden in the text as i explained by Serwyn and Aemon. Quote A Game of Thrones - Bran II Bran knew all the stories. Their names were like music to him. Serwyn of the Mirror Shield. Ser Ryam Redwyne. Prince Aemon the Dragonknight. The twins Ser Erryk and Ser Arryk, who had died on one another's swords hundreds of years ago, when brother fought sister in the war the singers called the Dance of the Dragons. The White Bull, Gerold Hightower. Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. Barristan th https://asearchoficeandfire.com/?q=Serwyn There are more times their names are paired up. But im sure that's just random coincidence too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted November 30, 2017 Author Share Posted November 30, 2017 29 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said: although I still struggle to understand why the Andals were suffering from this pressure a thousand years earlier than the Rhoynar, who are a lot closer to Valyria. Unless the Rhoynar were just able to resist it for longer, being a stronger, more advanced civilization at the time. Also, if you look. I have not altered this as there is not a single quote i can find that conflicts with this account. The reason for this IMO is due to the Andals (Who come from the Grass lands south of the Silver Sea) Quote The World of Ice and Fire - Beyond the Free Cities: The Grasslands Some maesters believe that the First Men originated here before beginning the long westward migration that took them across the Arm of Dorne to Westeros. The Andals, too, may have arisen in the fertile fields south of the Silver Sea Were the original Valyrians before the Empire of the Dawn mixed with some giving them dragons and forcing the others out. The Andals possibly went north in an attempt to use the Rhoynar as a buffer. Quote The World of Ice and Fire - Ancient History: The Arrival of the Andals For a few centuries, as the Andals prospered in the Hills of Andalos, they were left more or less to themselves. But with the fall of Old Ghis came the great surge of conquest and colonization from the Freehold of Valyria, as they expanded their domains and sought more slaves. At first, the Rhoyne and the Rhoynar served as a buffer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 7 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said: Also, if you look. I have not altered this as there is not a single quote i can find that conflicts with this account. The reason for this IMO is due to the Andals (Who come from the Grass lands south of the Silver Sea) Were like original Valyrians before the Empire of the Dawn mixed with some giving them dragons and forcing the others out. The Andals possibly went north in an attempt to use the Rhoynar as a buffer. I'm sure all peoples are related if you go far enough back. Even the First Men came from somewhere around central Essos, if I recall. But that would have been 12000+ years ago. Some link between the Andals and the Valyrians around the time of the Long Night 6000 or so years ago is certainly possible, but would not be relevant after so much time. Heck, half the people's of central Essos could have intermingled during that distant era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted November 30, 2017 Author Share Posted November 30, 2017 7 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said: I'm sure all peoples are related if you go far enough back. Even the First Men came from somewhere around central Essos, if I recall. But that would have been 12000+ years ago. Some link between the Andals and the Valyrians around the time of the Long Night 6000 or so years ago is certainly possible, but would not be relevant after so much time. Heck, half the people's of central Essos could have intermingled during that distant era. Possibly. Yet, the split between Christians and Muslims and Jews after the Old Testament has led to 2000 years of remembered war fare and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted November 30, 2017 Author Share Posted November 30, 2017 2 things i would love to explore more, are Braavos (The Faceless Men, Bank of Braavos), and Qaarth. Though i have not had time to bend my mind to it just yet and nothing has jumped out at me yet in my other research. So if any one has some ideas, new or old, and especially ones you can possibly work into the ideas presented here would be awesome and alot of fun to discuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted November 30, 2017 Author Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Free Northman Reborn said: This narrative is a nice one, but it is not the Ice and Fire narrative. It is too neat. I wish it was that easy. It's taken me a long time of thinking the myths were connected and the time line wrong, before i ever realized the link in Serwyn and Aemon. Even then, it took me time to realize that the Journey to Westeros via Weirwood boats and the Last Hero and Night's King were only parts of the story, missing the kidnapping of the sister (Uthor's tale of Marris stolen from Argoth Stone Skin) and the wedding (Durran's tale to Elenai in which they're attacked on their wedding day). That this is when the brother attacked the other brother, setting off the curse on Garth. Explaining why the Grey King turned Grey. Yet the Grey king isn't Garth, cause Garth lived more than 1000 years by accounts. Where as Durran lived 1000 and the Grey King 1007. This was a very long road and not a neat picture hahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted November 30, 2017 Author Share Posted November 30, 2017 Durran being the Liel Eldest Brother of the Antler Men to the Grey King of the Walrus Men, that House Goodbrother comes from being Antler Men and dwell inland in a forest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted November 30, 2017 Author Share Posted November 30, 2017 Yes, i know i know, George believes in leaving things vague and unexplained like Love Craft. He does leave them vague, he nevvvver explains the gods. Yes he explains the children. Yet he doesn't explain the Trees, or the Deep Ones. These are the ancient legends and past that will never be answered. Who are the Fisher Queens? The Deep Ones? The Old Ones? Etc. Yes, i propose the humans work magic via the trees and fire in another thread and even that Valyrian Steel comes from the black trees and Dawn the Weirwoods. Yet none of this explains why the trees are powerful or what they are, or the magical fire. These are the elements of the gods and things we will never understand. IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 11 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said: Yes, i know i know, George believes in leaving things vague and unexplained like Love Craft. He does leave them vague, he nevvvver explains the gods. Yes he explains the children. Yet he doesn't explain the Trees, or the Deep Ones. These are the ancient legends and past that will never be answered. Who are the Fisher Queens? The Deep Ones? The Old Ones? Etc. Yes, i propose the humans work magic via the trees and fire in another thread and even that Valyrian Steel comes from the black trees and Dawn the Weirwoods. Yet none of this explains why the trees are powerful or what they are, or the magical fire. These are the elements of the gods and things we will never understand. IMO It's soul power, life force of living beings, absorbed into the trees via blood sacrifices and the natural cycle of life and death. I have always said all magic comes from life force of living creatures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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