US Politics: What's a couple hundred billion between friends?

[Morpheus]

1 hour ago, Zorral said:

And this MAGA -- just how?

Isn't all this certifiably insane?

Well, yeah

MAGA is the dream that a rich man, bemonocled and top hatted, can masturbate to a well-worn copy of Atlas Shrugged and finish on a pile of 100s whenever and wherever he pleases

MAGA means that every newborn can pull itself up by its bootstraps and get a job making strapless boots for wealthier newborns

MAGA, it's time travel, we can go back to the 50s but the KGB is our buddies

MAGA- God created everything, including greenhouses gases, nukular waste, and water pollutants, are you saying God was wrong to make these things? Bon appetite, asshole. SCIENCE!

MAGA: Insecure? Talentless? Fat? Balding? Old? White? MAGA may be right for you. Grab America by the pussy.

MAGA means never having to say you're sorry

[Durckad]

42 minutes ago, Zorral said:

What is the real reason these criminals have taken wrecking balls to the State Department?  Don't say it's to save money by getting rid of it.  No nation of any standing in the world is without a fully functioning state and diplomatic service.  Except, now, of course, the USA.

 

Because smaller guvmint *something something* drain the swamp *something something* winning!

[Mexal]

Haha this is great. The Senate GOP Accidentally Killed Some of Its Donors’ Favorite Tax Breaks. Senate GOP put the AMT at 20%, the same as the Corporate Tax Rate which renders all corporate deductions moot. Donors aren't loving that. They have guaranteed that the House can't pass the Senate tax bill as written (which was unlikely to happen anyway since they're voting to go to conference).

Quote

With this blunder, Senate Republicans have achieved the unthinkable: They’ve written a giant corporate tax cut that many of their corporate donors do not like. As The Wall Street Journal reports:

"The biggest consequence could be the research credit, often used by manufacturers, technology firms and pharmaceutical companies, and the National Association of Manufacturers said it was working with policy makers to address the issue.

Under the credit, companies get money back from the government for what they spend on innovation, often for wages of scientists and engineers. Corporations will claim $10.3 billion in research credits in 2018, according to the congressional Joint Committee on Taxation.

… Murray Energy Corp., an Ohio-based firm and the largest privately held U.S. coal-mining company, complained that the AMT decision and the Senate’s tougher limits on interest deductions made a “mockery out of so-called tax reform.” Robert Murray, the company’s chief executive officer, said the Senate tax plan would raise his company’s tax bill by $60 million.

“What the Senate did, in their befuddled mess, is drove me out of business and then bragged about the fact that they got some tax reform passed,” Mr. Murray said in an interview Sunday. “This is not job creation. This is not stimulating income. This is driving a whole sector of our community into nonexistence.”

 

[OldGimletEye]

On 12/4/2017 at 1:25 PM, Martell Spy said:

Iowa senator defends tax plan by implying non-wealthy spend their money on “booze and women”
He said that the working class is “just spending every darn penny they have, whether it’s on booze or women”

https://www.salon.com/2017/12/04/chuck-grassleys-declaration-of-class-warfare/

Well it looks like somebody is trying to out do Mitt "I roughed out in the Vineyards of France in 68' so those working class bums could have it easy in those rice paddies" Romney'

Ooooh Repubican Party, does anyone want to talk about class warfare? Feeling like having a conservation about it?

#sorryassconservatives

#sorryassrepublicans

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

57 minutes ago, Zorral said:

What is the real reason these criminals have taken wrecking balls to the State Department?  Don't say it's to save money by getting rid of it.  No nation of any standing in the world is without a fully functioning state and diplomatic service.  Except, now, of course, the USA.

 

Well to be fair, the State Department has gotten bloated over the last two decades (or at least in the post 9/11 era. That does not justify what Tillerson is doing though. There are so many critical vacancies and they’re not hiring low level staffers. I was considering taking the Foreign Service Officer test before Trump won. Now I’m not so sure it’s something I’d want to do.

[Ormond]

16 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

Well it looks like somebody is trying to out do Mitt "I roughed out in the Vineyards of France in 68' so those working class bums could have it easy in those rice paddies" Romney'

Ooooh Repubican Party, does anyone want to talk about class warfare? Feeling like having a conservation about it?

#sorryassconservatives

#sorryassrepublicans

I guess now that Grassley is 84 and probably very unlikely to be running again in 2022 when he will be 89, he feels free to say what he really thinks. Of course there's a slight chance there's also some incipient dementia involved. 

[ThinkerX]

An interesting perspective from a corporate type that does benefit from the tax bill.  From his POV, given the hard (literally) limitations of his business, its 'nice,' but nowhere nice enough to warrant the kind of expansion republicans project.  Given the situation (business), I can't say I blame him, either.

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/how-a-company-actually-plans-to-spend-its-tax-cut-money/ar-BBGazql?li=BBnbfcN&ocid=msnclassic

 

That said, Facebook and elsewhere, I have run across a few folks running preliminary calculations on their taxes under the new legislation.  (One of them linked to a tax calculator I lost track of.)  For some people, in...'certain circumstances,' the bill is a bit of a bonanza...at least initially. 

[OldGimletEye]

23 hours ago, Ormond said:

I guess now that Grassley is 84 and probably very unlikely to be running again in 2022 when he will be 89, he feels free to say what he really thinks. Of course there's a slight chance there's also some incipient dementia involved. 

Well I'm no doctor, but if I had to diagnose a cause, I’d bet on it being typical conservative dumbassery. Though I could be wrong and it’s just dementia.

[Martell Spy]

11 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

Well I'm no doctor, but if I had to diagnose a cause, I’d bet on it being typical conservative dumbassery. Though I could be wrong and it’s just dementia.

Another possibility: projection. Perhaps he spends $30,000 a year on women, booze, and movies and he figures if he only made 30 k a year, well that'd be his entire income.

[OldGimletEye]

When you have cable, you get bored.

When you get bored, you read Brietbart and listen to Rush Limbaugh.

When you read Brietbart and listen to Rush Limbaugh, you become a conservative kook.

And when you are a conservative kook, you start spewing nonsensical jibberish.

Don’t become a conservative kook. Get Direct TV.

[Ormond]

11 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

Well I'm no doctor, but if I had to diagnose a cause, I’d bet on it being typical conservative dumbassery. Though I could be wrong and it’s just dementia.

I myself would assume that in the slight chance there is dementia involved, it's affecting his ability to self-censor, not his real opinions. 

[Kalbear]

1 hour ago, IamMe90 said:

All of those things will continue to happen regardless of whether @A True Kaniggit talks to people who are republican. They will also continue to happen regardless of how many times you continue to spew out the same tired invectives.

It helps him deal with the shitheads and keep working on things that might matter. The difference is that SoD doesn't think for a second that his invective is changing people's minds, nor is the goal of it to do so. The goal is to fire people up who care.

1 hour ago, IamMe90 said:

What on Earth are you talking about? What "active change" has Sword of Doom advocated for (in the context of this conversation) other than "don't talk to family and friends?" And how is that germane to turning out the Democratic base and winning elections? So far as I can tell, the only thing being advocated for is unfocused bitterness and anger. 

SoD has regularly talked about being active in the community; ranting on Westeros is not the beginning and end of his activism. 

As to turning out the Democratic base, well, getting people pissed off and agitating is definitely one way - and arguably far more effective than trying to convince republicans to vote Democrat. 

1 hour ago, Mexal said:

Exactly. Short of voting these people out or launching a violent civil war, there isn't much that can be done

True.

1 hour ago, Mexal said:

and the former starts with actually talking to them if they're a position to listen.

Not true. Again, why do you think  it's easier to convince a Republican to vote Democrat than it is to convince someone who didn't vote to vote Democrat?

 

[OldGimletEye]

23 hours ago, Ormond said:

I myself would assume that in the slight chance there is dementia involved, it's affecting his ability to self-censor, not his real opinions. 

Isn’t there an old line out there that a gaffe is when a politician tells the truth?

[Shryke]

1 hour ago, Zorral said:

What is the real reason these criminals have taken wrecking balls to the State Department?  Don't say it's to save money by getting rid of it.  No nation of any standing in the world is without a fully functioning state and diplomatic service.  Except, now, of course, the USA.

 

They don't understand soft power or what the State Department does.

Never assume intention with these people when stupidity is the more obvious answer.

[Shryke]

1 hour ago, Zorral said:

And this MAGA -- just how?

Isn't all this certifiably insane?

MAGA  is white supremacy and fascism. This was obvious from the minute it was first uttered if you know anything about the subjects.

[polishgenius]

6 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

SoD has regularly talked about being active in the community; ranting on Westeros is not the beginning and end of his activism. 

As to turning out the Democratic base, well, getting people pissed off and agitating is definitely one way - and arguably far more effective than trying to convince republicans to vote Democrat. 

Thing is you can get pissed off and agitate and try to convince Republicans to vote Democrat (and perhaps more importantly to convince Republicans to convince other Republicans that many of the things associated with the Republican party are wrong). You need to do both.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

9 minutes ago, Ormond said:

I myself would assume that in the slight chance there is dementia involved, it's affecting his ability to self-censor, not his real opinions. 

Would it be a good or a bad thing if there was an age limit for judges and elected officials?

6 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

Isn’t there an old line out there that a gaffe is when a politician tells the truth?

Yeah, but Joe Biden really threw a wrench into that construct.

[Martell Spy]

Donald Trump is a dangerously weak president
The media is crediting him with a tax overhaul victory. But he still holds remarkably little clout in Washington.

https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/12/4/16733450/donald-trump-weak-president-neustadt

Trying to Make Sense of Alan Dershowitz’s Argument on Fox & Friends This Morning

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/12/alan-dershowitz.html

Trump’s lawyer: the president can’t obstruct justice. 13 legal experts: yes, he can.
“Dowd’s argument is the last refuge of a scoundrel, and it would lead us down a path to despotism.”

https://www.vox.com/2017/12/4/16733422/fbi-deal-trump-flynn-russia-comey

[Kalbear]

Just now, polishgenius said:

Thing is you can get pissed off and agitate and try to convince Republicans to vote Democrat (and perhaps more importantly to convince Republicans to convince other Republicans that many of the things associated with the Republican party are wrong). You need to do both.

Why do you need to do both? Especially if you believe like SoD does that Republicans are at this point a lost cause?

People only have so much time and energy. Data wise, Democrats do better with better, more engaged turnout, and do worse with less. Seems to me that it's better to lean into the old adage of 'Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line'. 

Put it another way: lots and lots of Republicans are saying they're against Trump and Trumpism and hate the guy. Lots also say that about Roy Moore. Has that changed a single thing?

[Shryke]

46 minutes ago, Mexal said:

Haha this is great. The Senate GOP Accidentally Killed Some of Its Donors’ Favorite Tax Breaks. Senate GOP put the AMT at 20%, the same as the Corporate Tax Rate which renders all corporate deductions moot. Donors aren't loving that. They have guaranteed that the House can't pass the Senate tax bill as written (which was unlikely to happen anyway since they're voting to go to conference).

 

Was just coming to mention this. This is what happens when you pass a bill that you scrawled in the margins at the last second to rush it through.

The good news is that this, if true, means this is 100% going to committee so there is more time to agitate and scream and try and kill the thing.