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US Politics: What's a couple hundred billion between friends?

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Tax reform for the people! More than 6000 lobbyists in DC have worked on the tax cuts.

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Tax reform is taking over Washington, so much so that more than half of all registered lobbyists have disclosed working on the issue, according to an analysis from Public Citizen, a government watchdog group.

There are just under 11,000 active lobbyists in the nation's capital, according to data compiled by the Center for Responsive Politics (CRP), and more than half of them — 6,243 — have reported working on taxes this year, according to the report, which relies on CRP data.

Spread out over Capitol Hill, that means there are more than 11 lobbyists working on taxes for every member of Congress.

“The mind-boggling number of lobbyists corporate America has hired to reshape the tax code is of almost biblical proportions and undoubtedly cost a fortune,” said Lisa Gilbert, Public Citizen’s vice president of legislative affairs. “But the rate reductions and other favors in the legislation will exact a far greater price on regular Americans.”

One of the central issues for the tax push is reducing corporate tax rates, long a top Republican goal. The proposals floating in the House and Senate would cut the top corporate rate from 35 percent to 20 percent.

 

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2 hours ago, Martell Spy said:

“The hypocrisy is astounding”: this tax bill shows the GOP’s debt concerns were pure fraud
Republicans are proving themselves nihilists.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/12/2/16724978/gop-tax-bill-deficit-debt-fraud

 

Any and all talk by Republican politicians about the tax code, social issues, deficits and debt, etc., should be taken as nothing more than an excuse to return our economic system to a pre-New Deal era, and our society to a time when women knew their place was in the home and minorities knew to be deferential of white people and to not dare to live in the same places or demand the same rights.

It would have saved an awful lot of pain, time, and even debt for everyone to realize this about 30 years ago, considering the way the social safety net has been shredded by Republicans over that time and that our national debt to GDP ratio has never recovered from the Reagan tax cuts, but hopefully that lesson has now sunk in with the Left and next time we won't get fooled again.

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13 minutes ago, Mexal said:

Tax reform for the people! More than 6000 lobbyists in DC have worked on the tax cuts.

Quote

Tax reform is taking over Washington, so much so that more than half of all registered lobbyists have disclosed working on the issue, according to an analysis from Public Citizen, a government watchdog group.

There are just under 11,000 active lobbyists in the nation's capital, according to data compiled by the Center for Responsive Politics (CRP), and more than half of them — 6,243 — have reported working on taxes this year, according to the report, which relies on CRP data.

Spread out over Capitol Hill, that means there are more than 11 lobbyists working on taxes for every member of Congress.

“The mind-boggling number of lobbyists corporate America has hired to reshape the tax code is of almost biblical proportions and undoubtedly cost a fortune,” said Lisa Gilbert, Public Citizen’s vice president of legislative affairs. “But the rate reductions and other favors in the legislation will exact a far greater price on regular Americans.”

One of the central issues for the tax push is reducing corporate tax rates, long a top Republican goal. The proposals floating in the House and Senate would cut the top corporate rate from 35 percent to 20 percent.

All those earnest folks called their MoC, trying to stem the tide, all done for nothing.  It wasn't the voters the MoC's were listening too, it was the lobbyists.  All those calls made in vain.  

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5 minutes ago, Nasty LongRider said:

All those earnest folks called their MoC, trying to stem the tide, all done for nothing.  It wasn't the voters the MoC's were listening too, it was the lobbyists.  All those calls made in vain.  

Lets hope those calls turn into votes and the Democrats can harness the message of what happened last night. Dems never had a chance to stop this with complete control of the Government in the hands of the GOP, but they can certainly do everything they possibly can to win as many seats as they can in 2018. Kal will think it won't matter but it's the only way to check this uncontrolled theft.

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25 minutes ago, Paladin of Ice said:

Any and all talk by Republican politicians about the tax code, social issues, deficits and debt, etc., should be taken as nothing more than an excuse to return our economic system to a pre-New Deal era, and our society to a time when women knew their place was in the home and minorities knew to be deferential of white people and to not dare to live in the same places or demand the same rights.

It would have saved an awful lot of pain, time, and even debt for everyone to realize this about 30 years ago, considering the way the social safety net has been shredded by Republicans over that time and that our national debt to GDP ratio has never recovered from the Reagan tax cuts, but hopefully that lesson has now sunk in with the Left and next time we won't get fooled again.

Sadly, people's memories seem short. The lessons of 2000 didn't even last 16 years.

 

This whole thing was literally just paying back the billionaires that own them. They paid money to get Republicans elected and they demanded those Republicans deliver what their masters paid for. And since they don't give a shit about democracy or the rule or law or political norms or, really, anything but naked power, they rammed it through and flipped everyone the bird while they did it. "We can, so we did, fuck you all" Their rhetoric is empty beyond that.

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8 minutes ago, Mexal said:

Lets hope those calls turn into votes and the Democrats can harness the message of what happened last night. Dems never had a chance to stop this with complete control of the Government in the hands of the GOP, but they can certainly do everything they possibly can to win as many seats as they can in 2018. Kal will think it won't matter but it's the only way to check this uncontrolled theft.

I don't disagree with you, but I'm full of ennui at the moment.  Since W tried to piratize SS I really, really worry when R's are in power, and with good reason.  I'm 61, will I have to work until death just so I can have health care because Medicare will be destroyed and SS has been stolen by these freaks?  Will we ever be able to change the tide even if we vote in enough D's?  

Gah!  The whole tax bullshit was never a true legislative process.  The R's have become lawless louts and how will we beat back the horde? 

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6 hours ago, A True Kaniggit said:

Are you from a Republican heavy area? I am. Louisiana. And I think me talking to my Republican family and friends, trying to convince them to vote Democrat (and sometimes succeeding) , does more for the Democrats than your apparent plan of being an asshole to them at every opportunity. 

Edit: And to be clear, I was raised from an early age, like so many other people in this area, that Republican=Good/Smart, while Democrat=Bad/Stupid. It was only by going out and seeing more of the world, talking to people who were raised differently than me, that I was able to change my mind. Giving up on all current Republicans "just because" is a very stupid strategy.

Fuck being nice to them, discourse has not worked with them at all. 

People are going to die because of this tax plan, and you want to still play nice? Get the fuck out off here with that.

Sorry you're unable to come to terms with your friends and family being terrible people that support a party of bigots, greedy scumbags and sexual predator apologists.

And it's not giving up on them just because, there's quite a lot of reasons to not deal with them any more. 


 

Edited by Sword of Doom

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Just now, Sword of Doom said:

Fuck being nice to them, discourse has not worked with them at all. 

People are going to die because of this tax plan, and you want to still play nice? Get the fuck out off here with that.

Except discourse has worked. Considering I don't vote Republican, and I've convinced others to vote Democrat as well. Did you not just fucking read what I posted?

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Liberals always gonna liberal.  

Discourse works! Let me ignore the 2016 election and live in a naive intellectual circle jerk fantasy land where ideas can be exchanged and the best one always wins, and people who still support a party of pedo apologists that are also backed by the klan and nazis, vocally I might add, are still good wholesome people that deserve my liberal love and friendship.

 

Edited by Sword of Doom

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1 minute ago, Sword of Doom said:

Liberals always gonna liberal. 

You didn't quote to me, but I assume this was aimed at me. So what the fuck does it mean?

As I said, I was raised in Louisiana. From a very young age I was told that Democrats are idiots and that being Republican was the only way to go. It was only at age 19 that I moved away and started talking with different people in the world, who convinced me that what I grew up believing was wrong. Since then I've been able to convince my little sister of the same. -2 Republicans, +2 Democrats. Discourse worked.

So what the fuck are you saying?

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14 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said:

Except discourse has worked. Considering I don't vote Republican, and I've convinced others to vote Democrat as well. Did you not just fucking read what I posted?

It's not worth arguing with him. His mantra is kill all Republicans. I think you're exactly right.

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19 minutes ago, Nasty LongRider said:

I don't disagree with you, but I'm full of ennui at the moment.  Since W tried to piratize SS I really, really worry when R's are in power, and with good reason.  I'm 61, will I have to work until death just so I can have health care because Medicare will be destroyed and SS has been stolen by these freaks?  Will we ever be able to change the tide even if we vote in enough D's?  

Gah!  The whole tax bullshit was never a true legislative process.  The R's have become lawless louts and how will we beat back the horde? 

I could definitely see the Republicans following the Rubio model and raising the retirement age. I don't think you'll have to work until you die though, that will be your kids and grandkids. So basically, me.

Edited by Mexal

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3 minutes ago, Mexal said:

I could definitely see the Republicans following the Rubio model and raising the retirement age. I don't think you'll have to work until you die though, that will be your kids and grandkids. So basically, me.

We'll see.  I don't have children myself, but have lots of younger kin tho.  But what of them and you yourself? I don't wish for others to suffer because greedy rich assholes can never, ever have enough.  

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9 minutes ago, Mexal said:

It's not worth arguing with him. His mantra is kill all Republicans. I think you're exactly right.

Nah, my mantra is stop fucking enabling them by still being friendly with them. That shows there is no repercussion for being a piece of shit. It makes them think there is nothing wrong with supporting a party that is extremely bigoted and is now adding pedophilia apologism to the list of reasons why they are a shit.  And make no mistake, anyone that still is a republican and votes republican is a piece of garbage.

Edited by Sword of Doom

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5 minutes ago, Sword of Doom said:

Nah, my mantra is stop fucking enabling them by still being friendly with them. That shows there is no repercussion for being a piece of shit. It makes them think there is nothing wrong with supporting a party that is extremely bigoted and is now adding pedophilia apologism to the list of reasons why they are a shit.  And make no mistake, anyone that still is a republican and votes republican is a piece of garbage.

No one's gonna argue at this point that you can sway more than a few percent of Repub voters over Thanksgiving Dinner. But the argument is that you can sway a few percent of Repub voters over Thanksgiving Dinner.

Apart from that, pay attention to what Sanders is doing with his time. He is the most popular congressman we have right now. Surely that has to be connected to his endless effort to meet the rurals on their own turf?

Edited by denstorebog

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10 minutes ago, Sword of Doom said:

Nah, my mantra is stop fucking enabling them by still being friendly with them. That shows there is no repercussion for being a piece of shit. It makes them think there is nothing wrong with supporting a party that is extremely bigoted and is now adding pedophilia apologism to the list of reasons why they are a shit.  And make no mistake, anyone that still is a republican and votes republican is a piece of garbage.

Only if you ignore reality. I'm living proof people can change from the way they were raised.

Who knows? Maybe if over the years you'd actually tried talking to people, instead of verbally abusing them, you could've shown them the error of their ways. That's what happened to me. Maybe if thousands of people like you had done the same, 2016 could've been different.

Edited by A True Kaniggit

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12 minutes ago, Sword of Doom said:

Nah, my mantra is stop fucking enabling them by still being friendly with them. That shows there is no repercussion for being a piece of shit. It makes them think there is nothing wrong with supporting a party that is extremely bigoted and is now adding pedophilia apologism to the list of reasons why they are a shit.  And make no mistake, anyone that still is a republican and votes republican is a piece of garbage.

It will only show them that you are a dick who can’t see beyond politics in interpersonal relationships.  Its not going to teach them a lesson.  I grew up in a very similar climate as ATK, except in West Virginia instead of Louisiana and he’s right.

Edited by S John

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3 hours ago, Martell Spy said:

“The hypocrisy is astounding”: this tax bill shows the GOP’s debt concerns were pure fraud
Republicans are proving themselves nihilists.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/12/2/16724978/gop-tax-bill-deficit-debt-fraud

 

Part of it might be strategy though. They know this plan will cause a deficit, and will use that in the future to attack medicare, social security and the like. Of course that only works when they manage to hang onto power.

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17 minutes ago, Sword of Doom said:

Nah, my mantra is stop fucking enabling them by still being friendly with them. That shows there is no repercussion for being a piece of shit. It makes them think there is nothing wrong with supporting a party that is extremely bigoted and is now adding pedophilia apologism to the list of reasons why they are a shit.  And make no mistake, anyone that still is a republican and votes republican is a piece of garbage.

We know what your mantra is. You preach it in every single post without fail.

19 minutes ago, Nasty LongRider said:

We'll see.  I don't have children myself, but have lots of younger kin tho.  But what of them and you yourself? I don't wish for others to suffer because greedy rich assholes can never, ever have enough.  

I don't know. We'll see what happens I guess. Things are cyclical. Dems will be in power again and we'll have to see if they're able to fix this shit show and whether it'll be too late by then. 

I'm with you though, I don't want others to suffer because of the greed. I'm in a fairly lucky position so when all is said and done, I'll probably benefit from a lot of this crap but it's just flat out wrong. And I can't get behind that because while my family (mostly my wife's) may benefit, America as a country will be infinitely weaker and heading further and further towards an oligarchy. 

Edited by Mexal

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