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US Politics: What's a couple hundred billion between friends?

423 posts in this topic

23 hours ago, Morpheus said:

but the Republican president and congressional leadership are most definitely garbage.

Yes they are. And I hope someone goes in and takes out the trash soon.

Edited by OldGimletEye

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I'm at the point where I'd give my left elbow for Jones to win. Not only for the sake of rebalancing the Senate a bit and improving odds of taking it back later, but it would be such an immense slap in the face to Trump, Bannon and the GOP. It would force the latter to reconsider their strategy going forward.

Currently, the things Jones has going against him are the polls and the inbred nature of Alabama. Plus, Trump is now actively endorsing and campaigning for Moore, which I doubt will hurt Moore.

The things he has going for him are

  • Massive ground game, plus Moore has pretty much disappeared the last weeks. In contrast, Doug Jones managed to visit nine different churches on Sunday alone.
  • Massive fundraising advantage, plus Moore's campaign is severely understaffed at the moment.
  • The polling average shows Jones behind by less than Northam ended up overperforming compared to the polls, even his own internal ones.
  • A couple of dark horse effects. There are over 100k people with a criminal record who have had their voting rights restored, and there's been a massive effort underway to notify them about this. Also, Lee Busby, I guess?

 

Edited by denstorebog

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23 minutes ago, denstorebog said:

It would force the latter to reconsider their strategy going forward.

Yeah, unfortunately...

Trump, Bannon and the GOP: "Soooo, you guys think we should double down, or triple down?"

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On 12/1/2017 at 5:08 PM, Mlle. Zabzie said:

You're welcome and any time!  This is a tax lawyer's turn to be Cinderella at a ball :)  Unfortunately most of us are weirdos and proud of it, so they limit the ball thing to a once a generation type thing.

Too funny. Anyways I figured I’d make sure to thank you because I know how busy you are. My cousin has a major court case going underway and I can see just how many hours a day he has to spend on it. Normally over the holidays he works 1-2 hours a day, but he was on his phone/laptop for at least 12 hours a day during Thanksgiving week.

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1 hour ago, Morpheus said:

Trump's lawyer says  the president cannot obstruct justice....

We're one step away from:

 

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4 hours ago, Simon Steele said:

 

 

People can change Sword, but they typically do not change from being brow beaten. Call it intellectual circle jerking if you want, but for those of us who were once on the other side, we understand all too well that anger that was directed at us by the superior left which made any chance at reflection infinitely more difficult from a defensive position. I was a HUGE flag waver once. It wasn't through anger and isolation that I changed. It was through talking through things with more rational people.

People are not garbage for the most part. They are products of their families, their own long lives of intersecting misery that you or I cannot understand, and to call them garbage is dangerous ground to walk on. We have to understand where people are coming from, how they think, try to help them through see the damaging ways they think and approach the world. Not all of them are garbage and evil. Some of them are just people who need time.

I know things are grim for us right now. I'm a single dad working through a PhD program, and these tax cuts seem deathly grim to me. But I still am not angry at people for being categorically misled their entire lives.

I really do not care. I have zero time to be nice to scum of the earth and hold their hands and help them stop being the shit of society. 

Guess what? They don't need more time. Their votes for Republican politicians kill people. Are you oblivious to that? You think I haven't tried to have civilized conversations with them?

Fucking liberals man, your garbage discourse with your bigoted friends and family members does nothing but harm when the waiting game that comes along with it allows the bodies of the marginalized to pile up from republican policies.

You want grim? 
Remember that while you talk to your bigoted friend or family member and wait for them to try and turn the corner while you're trying to change their mind, some black person will unjustifiably shot by the cops and that cope will be given a paid vacation and not held accountable. Remember  some lgbt teens will be killing themselves because of the latest attack on their rights and the demonetization that comes along with it and how some politicians (republicans) are saying it's okay to discriminate against them and how the Trans community suffers an alarming murder rate. Remember that some people will have their body under attack and will have republicans trying to force them into being broodmares for the state.Remember how the land of natives is sold out from underneath them for oil companies to place oil pipelines. Remember how people of color are being deported even if they are not criminals. Remember how the disabled are getting attacked left and right with republican policies, or how someone is going to die from a lack of healthcare or because they can't afford their meds or treatment, because republicans refuse to give healthcare as a right and want to bleed every sick person dry until they die.
Also remember the poor will be starving to death or dying because they cant afford to go to doctor or pay for their medication, even more so because of this latest republican tax scam.

And that isn't touching upon net neutrality and the other horrendous ideas republicans push or how a serial pederast will most likely be voted into the senate who will be okay with people of color being murdered by the state and introduce policy to protect cops even more than they already are. Or how that same bigoted pedophile potential senator is also highly anti lgbt and will introduce extremely bigoted anti lgbt policy that will only further harm them. Or how misogynistic he is as well and the policies he will introduce that will attack women and their rights. 
 

Edited by Sword of Doom

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The Trump Tax Cuts for the Rich Must, and Will, Be Repealed

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/12/the-trump-tax-cuts-for-the-rich-must-and-will-be-repealed.html

The Cost of Trump's Attacks on the FBI
When cabinet officials don’t push back on Trump’s efforts to delegitimize their agencies, they leave their staff frustrated and demoralized.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/the-high-price-of-sessionss-failure-to-defend-the-justice-department/547382/

JACK GOLDSMITH 

Edited by Martell Spy

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I dont know if the Washington Post is just trolling Alabama at this point, but their poll had Jones up by 3. Still, the poll average puts Moore ahead.

I think turnout can make a difference though, and I wouldn't lose all hope.....but just temper your expectations.

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19 minutes ago, Sword of Doom said:

I really do not care. I have zero time to be nice to scum of the earth and hold their hands and help them stop being the shit of society.

So what is your plan for winning elections? If trying to convince others to not vote Republican is out of the question, what do you actually do?

Do you just sit around, relying on other people to do the actual work of drumming up votes?

Or have you already given up?

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48 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said:

So what is your plan for winning elections? If trying to convince others to not vote Republican is out of the question, what do you actually do?

Somewhere between 55 and 60% of eligible voters vote in presidential elections, and far fewer vote in non-POTUS elections. It is MUCH more likely to convince those 40% to vote than it is to convince Republicans that a Democrat is worth voting for. This is more obvious than ever given how Roy Moore is - and more importantly, how Trump and McConnell have said 'sure, he's fine'. 

48 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said:

Do you just sit around, relying on other people to do the actual work of drumming up votes?

You don't have long introspective conversations with people who aren't ever going to change their mind, no.

48 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said:

Or have you already given up?

The one person in this thread who has actively agitated for active change is being accused of giving up. What are YOU doing, @A True Kaniggit?

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37 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Somewhere between 55 and 60% of eligible voters vote in presidential elections, and far fewer vote in non-POTUS elections. It is MUCH more likely to convince those 40% to vote than it is to convince Republicans that a Democrat is worth voting for. This is more obvious than ever given how Roy Moore is - and more importantly, how Trump and McConnell have said 'sure, he's fine'. 

You don't have long introspective conversations with people who aren't ever going to change their mind, no.

 The one person in this thread who has actively agitated for active change is being accused of giving up. What are YOU doing, @A True Kaniggit?

In the post I replied to by Sword of Doom he describes all Republicans as "scum of the earth" and "shit of society". Fine. Older Republicans tend to be racist and homophobic as shit, and I don't bother with them. But younger Republicans? High schoolers and new graduates who only identify as Republican because their parents told them to be, but are actually liberal on social issues? I do try to reach out to these people and at least make an attempt at changing their minds before verbally abusing them. 

Edited by A True Kaniggit

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Yeah, there's nothing I love more than taking the rent money and blowing it on hookers and liquor. I'll even sometimes pull out the credit card and spend hundreds on expensive champagne. I just can't help myself. And of course I've never heard of Netflix or Redbox, so in between bouts at the brothels, I stagger drunkenly into the cinema. I try to see at least 8 movies a day so that I can blow the most money possible on this.

Hopefully Paul Ryan and Trump will take all my money away so that I can stop this compulsive behavior.

And of course there was a tax cut on liquor taxes in the bill, but who needs to be consistent?

Iowa senator defends tax plan by implying non-wealthy spend their money on “booze and women”
He said that the working class is “just spending every darn penny they have, whether it’s on booze or women”

https://www.salon.com/2017/12/04/chuck-grassleys-declaration-of-class-warfare/

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2 hours ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

I dont know if the Washington Post is just trolling Alabama at this point, but their poll had Jones up by 3. Still, the poll average puts Moore ahead.

I think turnout can make a difference though, and I wouldn't lose all hope.....but just temper your expectations.

Not sure anyone actually believes Jones will win. We're hoping though...

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3 hours ago, Sword of Doom said:

[insert generic angry rant]
 

All of those things will continue to happen regardless of whether @A True Kaniggit talks to people who are republican. They will also continue to happen regardless of how many times you continue to spew out the same tired invectives.

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2 hours ago, Kalbear said:

The one person in this thread who has actively agitated for active change is being accused of giving up. What are YOU doing, @A True Kaniggit?

What on Earth are you talking about? What "active change" has Sword of Doom advocated for (in the context of this conversation) other than "don't talk to family and friends?" And how is that germane to turning out the Democratic base and winning elections? So far as I can tell, the only thing being advocated for is unfocused bitterness and anger. 

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4 minutes ago, IamMe90 said:

All of those things will continue to happen regardless of whether @A True Kaniggit talks to people who are republican. They will also continue to happen regardless of how many times you continue to spew out the same tired invectives.

Exactly. Short of voting these people out or launching a violent civil war, there isn't much that can be done and the former starts with actually talking to them if they're a position to listen. Sword of Doom clearly wants the latter.

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Pretty interesting timeline comparison. We all know it but to see it drawn out like that.

 

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What is the real reason these criminals have taken wrecking balls to the State Department?  Don't say it's to save money by getting rid of it.  No nation of any standing in the world is without a fully functioning state and diplomatic service.  Except, now, of course, the USA.

 

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3 minutes ago, Zorral said:

What is the real reason these criminals have taken wrecking balls to the State Department?  Don't say it's to save money by getting rid of it.  No nation of any standing in the world is without a fully functioning state and diplomatic service.  Except, now, of course, the USA.

 

Our standing in the world drops daily, we won't need a state department at all when we are so toxic politcially that we are an international pariah

and toxic materially because the EPA has decided that nuclear waste is good and creates superheroes, so everybody gets a dump and isn't that what god wants anyway

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