Why I believe Dany is the daughter of Lyanna and Rhaegar

[Wm Portnoy]

Dany is too gorgeous to be the daughter of those two.  Besides, that would make her a bastard and I don't think that serves the story in any way.  Besides, the prophecy says the prince(ss) that was promised must be born from Targaryen + Targaryen line.   There is no point in the requirement if all the prince needed to have is half Targaryen parentage.

[SirArthur]

2 hours ago, Wm Portnoy said:

Dany is too gorgeous to be the daughter of those two.  Besides, that would make her a bastard and I don't think that serves the story in any way.  Besides, the prophecy says the prince(ss) that was promised must be born from Targaryen + Targaryen line.   There is no point in the requirement if all the prince needed to have is half Targaryen parentage.

Why is there a need for her to be the prince that was promised ? 

[Ygrain]

3 hours ago, Wm Portnoy said:

Dany is too gorgeous to be the daughter of those two.  Besides, that would make her a bastard and I don't think that serves the story in any way.  Besides, the prophecy says the prince(ss) that was promised must be born from Targaryen + Targaryen line.   There is no point in the requirement if all the prince needed to have is half Targaryen parentage.

Nope - the woods witch's prophecy said that the PTWP would be born from the line of Aerys and Rhaella, which is why the two had to marry. Any child of theirs, or any child of their children, is born from their line.

[LynnS]

6 hours ago, SirArthur said:

Why is there a need for her to be the prince that was promised ? 

I'm curious about the actual prophecy itself. Selmy relates it thus:

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Daenerys IV

"Why did they wed if they did not love each other?"

"Your grandsire commanded it. A woods witch had told him that the prince was promised would be born of their line."

"A woods witch?" Dany was astonished.

I wonder if what we are really talking about is a promise of marriage to Dorne. Rhaegar marries Elia.  Viserys seems to have been bound to a marriage contract with Dorne and although Dany isn't mentioned in the contract; she also concludes that she is also bound by the contract.  Sounds to me like the prophecy relates to a Targ/Dorne offspring which may be why Rhaegar says that Aegon is the PtwP.   The question is why Doran Martell is pursuing the alliance or what he might have learned about the prophecy since he sends his relations to study at the Citadel.  Perhaps he isn't just politically motivated.

[acwill07]

LOL Dany was born on Dragonstone during the worst storm in memory.  It is known.  Everyone still wants to fight R + L = J, but it's a fact.  I wish Winds would hurry up and come out so we can do away with these theories.

[LiveFirstDieLater]

11 minutes ago, acwill07 said:

LOL Dany was born on Dragonstone during the worst storm in memory.  It is known.  Everyone still wants to fight R + L = J, but it's a fact.  I wish Winds would hurry up and come out so we can do away with these theories.

That “worst storm in memory” which destroyed the whole Targaryen Fleet right before Darry with his loyal men and nurse maid sailed away on one of the ships...

What happened to those “loyal” men? Because everyone who was there for Dany’s “birth” conveniently disappeared before the story begins.

We find her with Viserys, having needlessly wandered around Essos, fleeing from nonexistent knives, while Illyrio, her super wealthy sudo benefactor, spent years planning her wedding as she and her brother traveled from court to court begging and establishing their identities.

Dany has Targaryen blood, no man can doubt it, because she has dragons... and if you read the theory you would see I am not fighting R+L=J... I think Jon and Danny are brother and sister.

9 hours ago, Wm Portnoy said:

Dany is too gorgeous to be the daughter of those two.  Besides, that would make her a bastard and I don't think that serves the story in any way.  Besides, the prophecy says the prince(ss) that was promised must be born from Targaryen + Targaryen line.   There is no point in the requirement if all the prince needed to have is half Targaryen parentage.

The prophesy says the prince who was promised will be born of the line of Aerys and Rhaella... Any child of Rhaegar’s fullfills this requirement.

[LynnS]

20 minutes ago, Ghost+Nymeria4Eva said:

Isn't R+L=J already confirmed? Of course it's important to present alternative versions of theories, but I don't see any new compelling evidence here. You are ignoring the blue flower connection to Jon, especially the blue flower that's growing on  chink on the wall that Dany sees in her House of Undying visions. That's the strongest hint that Jon is Lyanna's son. 

The blue flower growing in the chink in the Wall may not be Jon, but Bran.  The chink in the Wall might be the Black Gate itself and Bran's appearance as Tree-Bran matches the appearance of the weirwood at the Night Fort.  That doesn't mean that RLJ isn't true; only that everything isn't about RLJ.  

[Euron Lannister]

R+L=J&D

It was a nice read

 

and for anyone who says it wouldn't add something to the story... well, Daenerys' whole life would have been a lie, there is almost nothing that would add more to the story.

[SirArthur]

2 hours ago, LynnS said:

I'm curious about the actual prophecy itself.

I don't trust prohecies. Some examples of the tricky language GRRM uses:

- a warrior pulls the red sword of heroes out of the fire, a warrior does not need to be Azor Ahai

- the prince that is promised is not the king (or queen) that is promised

- AA reborn is not AA revived

There are so many possibilities hidden in the prohecies, they will only confuse the mind. Lady Stoneheart as dragon woken from stone in another thread is such an example. It ties in in our Whent=Bat=Wyvern=Dragon idea. But both ideas are very unlikely for themself.

 

2 hours ago, acwill07 said:

LOL Dany was born on Dragonstone during the worst storm in memory.  It is known. 

The world has really a short memory if nobody remembers the Storm in Storm's End when Lord Steffen Baratheon died. Oh wait Stannis remembers. The guy who assaulted Dragonstone days after Dany fled Dragonstone. Ask Stannis. There is prob. a very good reason we do not have his POV chapter, because Stannis knows things. He was there. 

[Alexis-something-Rose]

2 hours ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

That “worst storm in memory” which destroyed the whole Targaryen Fleet right before Darry with his loyal men and nurse maid sailed away on one of the ships...

About this, is it possible that it's what Kevan Lannister is alluding to in the epilogue of Dance?

Quote

"As mad as her father," declared Lord Mace Tyrell.

That would be the same father that Highgarden and House Tyrell supported to the bitter end and well beyond. 

The Targaryen fleet was smashed to hell, I think it's possible that people from the Reach helped Ser Willem escape with the children. Kevan is clearly alluding to something, which I'm assuming we will find out once Mace arrives at Storm's End. I think he's heading there to bend the knee, not fight. When I read the prologue from AFFC and the epilogue from ADWD, there's more going on with the people in the Reach.

[Ghost+Nymeria4Eva]

1 hour ago, LynnS said:

The blue flower growing in the chink in the Wall may not be Jon, but Bran.  The chink in the Wall might be the Black Gate itself and Bran's appearance as Tree-Bran matches the appearance of the weirwood at the Night Fort.  That doesn't mean that RLJ isn't true; only that everything isn't about RLJ.  

a "wall made of ice" is pretty much The Wall. Bran isn't at the wall, Jon is. Why would a gate be represented as a tiny gap? What does Bran have to do with blue roses filling the air with sweetness? The signs here are obvious. 

[LynnS]

26 minutes ago, Ghost+Nymeria4Eva said:

a "wall made of ice" is pretty much The Wall. Bran isn't at the wall, Jon is. Why would a gate be represented as a tiny gap? What does Bran have to do with blue roses filling the air with sweetness? The signs here are obvious. 

Bran can access the weirwood net and any wierwood tree.  So yes, he can be at the Wall and he can access the power of the Wall.  He is a growing power and is often described as 'sweet'.  Jon isn't the only 'rose' of Winterfell.  The Black Gate isn't just a glamored and warded hole in the Wall that allows Bran to physically pass through the ice to the other side; it's a door that allows Bran to go where he likes on a metaphysical level.  It's the middle head of the god Trios; the one that nobody understands or knows what it does.

Compare the language GRRM uses and the descriptions of Tree-Bran and the weirwood at the Black Gate:

Quote

A Clash of Kings - Jon VII

A weirwood.

It seemed to sprout from solid rock, its pale roots twisting up from a myriad of fissures and hairline cracks. The tree was slender compared to other weirwoods he had seen, no more than a sapling, yet it was growing as he watched, its limbs thickening as they reached for the sky. Wary, he circled the smooth white trunk until he came to the face. Red eyes looked at him. Fierce eyes they were, yet glad to see him. The weirwood had his brother's face. Had his brother always had three eyes?

Not always, came the silent shout. Not before the crow.

Quote

A Storm of Swords - Bran IV

The Reeds decided that they would sleep in the kitchens, a stone octagon with a broken dome. It looked to offer better shelter than most of the other buildings, even though a crooked weirwood had burst up through the slate floor beside the huge central well, stretching slantwise toward the hole in the roof, its bone-white branches reaching for the sun. It was a queer kind of tree, skinnier than any other weirwood that Bran had ever seen and faceless as well, but it made him feel as if the old gods were with him here, at least.

 

Quote

a blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness. .

Bran's power is growing and Tree-Bran is literally growing before Jon's eyes.  The Black Gate is a doorway for Bran to use. 

Quote

Bran can bridge that distance. He is a sweet boy, quick to laugh, easy to love. GoT Catelyn II

She knelt before the Smith, who fixed things that were broken, and asked that he give her sweet Bran his protection. CoK Catelyn IV

There was a smell of death about that room; a heavy smell, sweet and foul, clinging. It reminded her of the sons that she had lost, her sweet Bran and her little Rickon, slain at the hand of Theon Greyjoy, who had been Ned's ward. SoS Catelyn I

When is Jon ever described as sweet?  Bran also has the smell of death around him in the cave the greenseer.  Something that Ghost picks up on and Jon recognizes.

Quote

A Clash of Kings - Jon VII

He sniffed at the bark, smelled wolf and tree and boy, but behind that there were other scents, the rich brown smell of warm earth and the hard grey smell of stone and something else, something terrible. Death, he knew. He was smelling death. He cringed back, his hair bristling, and bared his fangs.

I don't think everything is about Jon or RLJ.  Bran is just as important to the story.

 

[Ghost+Nymeria4Eva]

On 2/22/2018 at 1:09 AM, LynnS said:

Bran can access the weirwood net and any wierwood tree.  So yes, he can be at the Wall and he can access the power of the Wall.  He is a growing power and is often described as 'sweet'.  Jon isn't the only 'rose' of Winterfell.  The Black Gate isn't just a glamored and warded hole in the Wall that allows Bran to physically pass through the ice to the other side; it's a door that allows Bran to go where he likes on a metaphysical level.  It's the middle head of the god Trios; the one that nobody understands or knows what it does.

Compare the language GRRM uses and the descriptions of Tree-Bran and the weirwood at the Black Gate:

 

Bran's power is growing and Tree-Bran is literally growing before Jon's eyes.  The Black Gate is a doorway for Bran to use. 

When is Jon ever described as sweet?  Bran also has the smell of death around him in the cave the greenseer.  Something that Ghost picks up on and Jon recognizes.

I don't think everything is about Jon or RLJ.  Bran is just as important to the story.

 

So what strong connection does Bran have to blue roses? He's the warg with the connection to weirwoods. We also know now that he ends up with the three-eyed crow. So how is he the blue rose growing up at the Wall? "Filling the air with sweetness" is something that happens at the Wall, not back in Winterfell. 

Obviously, the massive tomes of books are not all about Jon and his parentage. No one is contesting Bran's importance to the story either. 

[LynnS]

1. deleted - formatting problem

 

[LynnS]

1 hour ago, Ghost+Nymeria4Eva said:

So what strong connection does Bran have to blue roses? He's the warg with the connection to weirwoods. We also know now that he ends up with the three-eyed crow. So how is he the blue rose growing up at the Wall? "Filling the air with sweetness" is something that happens at the Wall, not back in Winterfell. 

Obviously, the massive tomes of books are not all about Jon and his parentage. No one is contesting Bran's importance to the story either. 

 All of the Stark kids are 'roses' of Winterfell.   If Bran can inhabit the weirwood that controls the Black Gate is he then present at the Wall?  If Jon can smell the sweet and foul smell of death around him in the Tree-Bran & Ghost-Jon encounter; does this not qualify as the smell of sweetness that characters associate with the smell of death?

How do we know that Bran is the 3EC?  It seems more likely to me that Jon is the 3EC.  Patchface tells us that he's 'the crow':
 

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Jon XI

They found Her Grace sewing by the fire, whilst her fool danced about to music only he could hear, the cowbells on his antlers clanging. "The crow, the crow," Patchface cried when he saw Jon. "Under the sea the crows are white as snow, I know, I know, oh, oh, oh."

Patchface isn't getting excited about any old crow of the NW.  Bran refers to the crow in his dreams as the crow.  He also complains that the crow lied to him and Old Nan backs him up by saying that all crows are liars.  She's isn't talking about birds, she's talking about the men of the NW.  Mormont confirms that all crows are liars:
 

Quote

A Clash of Kings - Jon I

Mormont gave a whistle, and the bird flew to him again and settled on his arm. "A lord's one thing, a king's another." He offered the raven a handful of corn from his pocket. "They will garb your brother Robb in silks, satins, and velvets of a hundred different colors, while you live and die in black ringmail. He will wed some beautiful princess and father sons on her. You'll have no wife, nor will you ever hold a child of your own blood in your arms. Robb will rule, you will serve. Men will call you a crow. Him they'll call Your Grace. Singers will praise every little thing he does, while your greatest deeds all go unsung. Tell me that none of this troubles you, Jon . . . and I'll name you a liar, and know I have the truth of it."

 

[Damon_Tor]

For me the clincher for R+L=J is the line from the House of the Undying prophecy: "A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness." We associate blue flowers most strongly with Lyanna, specifically with relationship to Rhaegar and then her "bed of blood". So for a blue flower to be growing from a wall of ice pretty strongly implies that their progeny is at The Wall, and the only reasonable candidate is Jon. Anyone with an alternate hypothesis will have to have an alternate explanation for this line, and that's a pretty tall order.

[Lost Melnibonean]

On 12/1/2017 at 4:18 PM, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Why I believe Dany is the daughter of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen:

I know this isn’t the first time someone has suggested this, but this is my attempt to give a fullish explanation of why I’ve come to believe this cracked tinfoil pot of a theory… I’m sick of people dismissing this out of hand when all they’ve ever noticed is the lemon tree part.

In my attempt to explain my reasoning I want to start with the textual reasons I ended up at this conclusion, and only at the end will I try and explain how the timeline of Robert’s Rebellion could actually make more sense if this is true.

I had best begin at the beginning… Apologies in advance for the length and any mistakes I made along the way.

Arms to Keep Her Warm

Dany describes Weteros (home), in her very first chapter:

Then in her “wake the dragon” dream, we see the same green hills/green fields, flowered plains/smell of home, stone towers/houses, and finally the pun: banners of their lords are “arms” (as in coat of arms).  Then of course it’s also worth pointing out she literally sees herself as Rheagar, wearing his arms and armor.

Ned Instructs Arya about the Stark family sigil… aka coat of Arms… aka the Direwolf.

Notice how well it fits… They (Starks) must keep each other warm during winter or they will die, howling (dragons don’t howl, wolves do) alone in the darkness. Dany is looking for her family, the Starks.

 Arya remembers her father’s words while at Harrenhall, and seems to hear a lonely wolf howling out in the world… who I’m suggesting is Dany. And she hears her father’s lecture about family.

 Here we see Arya remembers her father’s words on her arrival to Braavos. But she uses misinformation to come to the wrong conclusions. Bran and Rickon are not dead and skinned. The white winds are not yet blowing (winter is still coming). And Arya is not the lone wolf… Interesting side note, this is followed by a reference to Moonsingers (wolves) being the ones to found Braavos, the secret city, a place to hide…

 Then again in Braavos, she identifies that having a pack isn’t the same as a castle (Winterfell) nor as having friends, even “loyal” ones. This is about Family, the same blood running in their veins. Arya just doesn’t know that her family isn’t dead, and she isn’t alone.

 Besides the pun “moon rose” (blue flower anyone?), it is also a turn of phrase that connects again to the Starks… even the grass is repeated.

 And being under Ned’s cloak is another reference back to the Stark arms, the Direwolf.

Finally, Jon breaks down the arms pun for us perfectly:

 

 

Red Door, Lemon Tree and Braavos

This is likely not a revelation for anyone with even a passing familiarity of Westerosi tinfoil, but Dany’s house with the red door and the lemon tree outside, which she thinks was in Braavos, almost certainly was not, and the discrepancies are repeated to the point where it’s clearly not a mistake. From Dany’s first chapter:

 Dany has the barest memories of this childhood in a house with a red door… However, these memories do not fit with the “story of her childhood she has been told.

This description doesn’t match with what we see from Arya’s arrival to Braavos.
 

The wooden beams, the window (Braavos has houses abutting), the tree outside… none of that fits with the crowded stone island without trees.

 Even the smell is different.

 Arya notes that Braavos doesn’t smell like scented oils…

Also, the houses of Braavos are stone, but not great, and there are no green fields.

 The smell, the house, the grass and the door… all associated with home, Westeros:

 And I haven’t even gotten to the Lemon tree!  If you didn’t know, Lemons do not grow in Braavos.

 This lack of tropical fruit in northern climates is even being repeated in a sample Winds chapters.

So it appears Lemons come from Dorne, or at least southern climates, which makes sense.

It doesn’t get any more plainly laid out than that… Lemon trees don’t grow in Braavos.

Clearly the whole point here is that the big house with the red door from Dany’s memory wasn’t in Braavos… Dany was lied to.

Viserys the Snake, and the Usurper’s Knives

 Dany’s first chapter takes place in Pentos, she’s being prepared for her first meeting with Drogo by Illyrio and Viserys. I think it is often forgotten the feeling surrounding this first chapter and what an abusive terrible person Viserys was… but also, how there is an immediate feeling of distrust and unsureness of her own memories on Dany’s behalf. Her first chapter begins:

 Viserys opens with a textbook creepy “touch it, touch it”…

 Dany meanwhile, “could not remember”, and was frightened by a dress being soft… also, note the lavish lifestyle Illyrio provides them. Why have they been running around the continent as the Beggar King and less politely named sister?

I’m suggesting that this passage, and others,  indicate Viserys abused her and told her lies about her own past.

Rhaegar dying for the woman he loved! Interesting that a name isn’t used here either… in fact, mother and father are used when talking about (presumably) Aerys and Rhaella…

So often had her brother told her stories…  She’s starting to picture it herself.

Except remember that midnight flight to Dragonstone doesn’t match up with Jaime’s memory of Rhaella and Viserys leaving King’s Landing in the morning.
 

The Targaryen fleet was smashed by a storm… remember that…

Also, “her mother”  had died birthing her, but I’m not sure that’s why Viserys never forgave her. I think it was perhaps who her mother was, and that she was born at all.

I thought the whole Targaryen fleet was destroyed? What did they set sail in?

Is it odd that Dany doesn’t remember him ever using her name?

I’m undecided if the description of Willem’s “soft” hands fits with the fact we know Willem Darry was the master at arms who taught Rheagar how to fight (he should have calloused hands), but perhaps this was since he was an old done man.

However, the “Hot, moist, sickley sweet” sure doesn’t fit with Braavos, and we’ve even seen an old man (Aemon) get sick in Braavos and it was described as the opposite, chill. The lack of wood in Braavos made even a fire expensive.

 Viserys kept her moving around, saying that the Usurper’s knives were chasing them.

 We know for a fact that this was a lie. The wine merchant was the first assassin sent by Robert.

 Viserys, meanwhile, has been commanding obedience from Dany for as long as she can remember.

 Viserys continues to boss Dany around, and she listens.

Illyrio points out how regal she looks, the hair the eyes, she has the Targaryen look… and yet the phrasing is all so incredibly suspect.

Viserys comments that she’s too skinny… funny, where have I heard a “brother” say that before…

 Oh that’s right it was Jon telling Arya the same thing in her very first chapter.

 Here at the end of the chapter we see more hard evidence of how abusive and dictatorial Viserys was.

More home references, more associations with Westeros, and the suspiciously worded “Even the house with the red door had not been home for him.” 

But maybe most importantly, Dany’s first chapter ends the way it began, with Dany obeying the abusive Viserys, who has been dominating her and telling her stories for as long as she can remember.

I won’t speculate too much here on what Viserys’s motive was, likely it had to do with a child of Rheaegar having a better claim than him to the Iron Throne.

Illyrio’s motives are mysterious as well, with the added wrinkle that we know Dany believed she had been running from the Usurper’s knives for years, there were no Usurper’s knives, and…

So Illyrio had been planning Dany’s wedding to Drogo for years, but Dany and Viserys had only stayed with him for about six months. Before that they had been making their fake flight across Essos.

 This hammers home the fact that Dany has been lied to, Illyrio is a rich man and more than capable of providing a home for Dany.

 Is it possible Illyrio had Dany and Viserys running all over Essos under false pretenses so Dany would gain exposure in multiple courts, to the point where no one would doubt who she was?

Meanwhile, we know Illyrio has been raising Young Griff in secret, planning to one day put him on the throne of Westeros. Also, just in case it wasn’t complicated enough, he also gave Dany the Dragon Eggs… but this post isn’t about Illyrio.

Ned’s Promises, and the Usurper’s Knives

Ned has repeated memories of the promises, plural, he made to Lyanna, “she wanted to come home” is another nice Dany parallel by the way:

 As Lyanna lay dying Ned promised her something(s)… And at least early on it seems he believes he’s kept his promises: 

Notice this is when he is visiting Robert’s bastard daughter, and it makes him think of Lyanna, and the promises he so far has kept.

However, somewhere before Ned ends up in the Black Cells this changes…

While awake he is worried about Cat and his daughters, but while he sleeps he is dreaming of “blood and broken promises”. This appears a clear reference to Lyanna, and the fact that he now thinks of the promises as broken is significant. So what has happened in between to cause this change?

I believe the reason he thinks of his promises as broken is that an assassin was sent after Dany. Remember Ned and Robert argue about his sending of the assassin, and we know there had been no Usurper’s Knives sent before this, despite the lies told to Dany.

 Sending an assassin, is a clear policy change from the last decade and a half.

Going all the way back to the end of the Rebellion, this is the one major issue that wedged itself between Robert and Ned. We know that up until this point Jon Arryn had stopped Robert from sending assassins. In addition, the wine merchant being sent is the reason Ned resigns as Hand… of course, as we see in one of the quotes above, Robert has a change of heart on his deathbed. But…

Varys tells Ned it is too late… and it is only after this point we see Ned think of “broken promises”, instead of promises kept while he lies helpless in the Black Cells unable to help Jon or Dany.

The Shape of Shadows and the Bitter Cup

When Dany reaches the Heart Room of The House of the Undying, she is told a bunch of interesting phrases, my goal isn’t to explain every vision she receives, as I’ve found I always end up lost in the weeds, but I did want to point out this interesting association:

First, the shape of shadows… Of all the shadows in Mirri’s tent Dany can only make out two…

 The shapes of the shadows are important… it seems there were other’s but these two are the ones Dany recognizes, they are important in relation to her.

 As for the cups of fire and ice… I’m going to quote Mel and try and make some associations:

I’m not sure that I agree with all the reasoning Mel is using here, especially good and evil, but the association of ice-bitter and fire-sweet is an interesting one. And seems to carry some weight, let’s look at some more Ned quotes:

So what cup has been passed to Dany?

Now there are a lot of other great uses of bitter throughout the series, a quick search will reveal a surprising number of very plot relevant quotes.

But this one was too good to pass up. Exile, the bitter cup, is one that Dany has most certainly tasted.

There are some other interesting bitter cups I’ll include as well, since they may or may not be relevant, including in Mirri’s tent:

In this case the bitter cup appears to be about forgetting, and again, like exile, floating away from shore… in darkness and in ignorance.

Arya drinks a bitter cup to make herself blind in the House of White and Black:

Theon also tastes a bitter cup, and there is no doubt this one has to do with ice:

And Tyrion prefers sweet lies to bitter Starks:

Even Jon partakes in the bitter cup, and while Mance (Rattleshirt) burned brightly, the light still blinded and there is a bitter truth beneath, certainly about Mance (still alive!) and probably about Stannis (false king), and dare I say there even might be secrets about Jon even he is blind to?

This post is far too long to begin with so I won’t get to far into the sweet cups, fire… but just for completeness sake here are two Dornish examples:

Of course Doran does not partake of the sweet cup, and since we know he is plotting vengeance against the Lannisters, I don’t believe this is a coincidence. Also, worth noting that Doran appears to be drinking a bitter cup instead.

His son meanwhile, seems to have his own sweet cup as he tries to convince himself of something:

I love this example since it includes the dark/light symbolism and the sleep/waking symbolism from the opposite perspective I was trying to illustrate above.

The sweet solace (like a sweet lie compared to a bitter truth?) of the cup, then lighting a candle. He lies to himself about the sweet cup helping him sleep (that’s the bitter cup) and when he puts down the cup, he is burned by the flame (truth?).

She-Wolves of Winterfell

In this section I want to show a number of examples of how Dany fits right in with the She Wolves of Winterfell (Starks), in particular, Lyanna. I don’t think the quotes require much explanation… the parallels are fairly apparent and apply to almost everything we’ve learned about Lyanna.

Pleading:

 Beautiful:

Horseback Riding: 

 Flowers:

(She’s even wearing the Stark colors!!!)

Songs and Wine:

Brave Dany Flint

Brave Dany Flint was a daughter of the north who joined the Night’s Watch after disguising herself as a boy. She ends up being raped and murdered, but this isn’t the only possible dressing up as a boy we see in the series, we see Lyanna as the Knight of the Laughing Tree at the Tourney of Harenhall. Rheagar sings a sad and pretty song that makes her cry at the feast, and the story told about the following events was that Rheagar raped and murdered her. Oh and of course there is “The Song of Ice and Fire”.

But wait, there’s more…

Aemon believes that Dany is the prince that was promised. Gender surprise!

Dany was supposedly named by her mother. (re:GRRM SSM)

Flint is stone that can make fire… The Prince that was Promised is supposed to wake dragons (fire made flesh) from stone. Dany has already done this.

Robert’s Rebellion Timeline

280 AC – Rheagar Targaryen and Elia Martell are married

Rhaenys Targaryen born

281 AC – The Year of the False Spring (the false spring itself being near the end of the year)

The Tourney at Harrenhall

Snow in King’s Landing on the last day of the year

Aegon Targaryen (Son of Rhaegar and Elia) is born either at the very end of the year or very start of 282)

282 AC – Rhaegar disappears, Lyanna disappears

Brandon goes to Kings Landing, followed by Rickard, Executions ensue

Robert’s Rebellion begins – Battle of Gulltown, Ned goes North, Battle of Summerhall

The Siege of Storms End begins

Battle of Ashford

283 AC – Battle of the Bells (Stoney Sept)

Ned and Cat, Jon and Lysa double wedding

Jon Connington exiled and Chelstead named Hand

Gerold Hightower, The White Bull, sent to retrieve Rhaegar

Chelstead Burned and Rhaella is impregnated

Battle of the Trident

Rhaella and Viserys flee to Dragonstone with Willem Darry

Sack of King’s Landing

The Siege of Storms End is lifted

Tower of Joy

Rob Stark is born

284 AC – Rhaella dies in childbirth on Dragonstone during a storm

 

Above you can see a rough timeline of some major events from Robert’s Rebellion.

First, I want to point out that between the start of 280 and the start of 282 Rhaegar and Elia are married and have two children. A girl and a boy.

What I am proposing is that Lyanna became pregnant at the tourney of Harrenhall (end 281) and had two children before dying in childbirth at the Tower of Joy (end 283). A boy and a girl.

This fits well within the timeline, and provides a reason for Lyanna’s disappearance besides being kidnapped (which never really made sense to me anyway), she discovered she was pregnant.

She disappears to the Tower of Joy with Rhaegar, who returns to King’s Landing after she gives birth to a boy, and commands the three Kingsguard Ned fight’s there, including the commander of the Kingsguard who was sent to retrieve him, for this reason. If Lyanna was still pregnant, their presence doesn’t really make sense.

Ned arrives to find her dying giving birth to a daughter.

Rhaella meanwhile died in childbirth, but, like so many of her other pregnancies, this one did not result in a living child.

Darry, and his four loyal men, fled with Viserys to Braavos in secret along with any evidence of Rhaella’s miscarriage and her crown.

The point here is that Lyanna having two children is not only possible within the timeline, but Elia’s pregnancies provide precedent.

Now of course I realize that this begs the question, what happened next? How did Dany end up in Illyrio’s estate with Viserys thinking she was his sister?

I would propose that Ned finds himself with Lyanna’s two kids who he has promised to protect.

Jon he can take home since he looks like a Stark and passes him off as a bastard. It’s worth pointing out that the age difference between Rob and Jon isn’t at all clear. Cat seems to have told herself that Rob is older, but…

And Cat arrived at Winterfell after the Rebellion with baby Robb only to find Jon already there.

Dany however looks like a Targaryen, and Ned had only recently come from King’s Landing and fighting with Robert about killing children (dragonspawn). I propose Ned does with Dany exactly what he tells Cersei to do when fearing Robert’s wrath, Exile… and he asks Ashara Dayne, and possibly other(s), to help him when he returned her brother’s sword. (“Daenerys” contains the same letters as “Ser Dayne”, while Ned Dayne appears named after Eddard Stark).

 Ashara Dayne meanwhile supposedly died after throwing herself into the sea in grief after having a still born girl.

Of course at this point everything gets supper fuzzy, like it wasn’t already,  and we’re not sure exactly what happened.

I suspect the first five years of Dany’s life were spent in the House with the Red Door with some guardian she now conflates with Willem Darry.

She does have a memory of arriving in Braavos, and no black Targaryen Sails:

We know there were no hired knives, and again we see Viserys abusing her and telling her what to believe.

It is also important that she can remember arriving in Braavos (as the story we’re told has her running from Braavos, she’d have been too young to remember arriving), and that Viserys isn’t in the memory of the ship, her memory of him is the abuse after telling him about it.

There are a few events which appear to have happened at about the same time around when Dany would have been turning five.

First, a marriage pact for Viserys was signed between Prince Oberyn Dorne and Willem Darry, witnessed by the Sealord of Braavos.

Dany and Viserys begin there wandering about Essos running from fake usurper’s knives.

And the Sealord of Braavos died.

This is what I propose happened, and I’m well aware that I’m making a few leaps at this point.

Dany’s location (the house with the red door, in Westeros) is discovered by the Martells (perhaps having been told on by the Darkstar Dayne, called by Doran “the most dangerous man in Dorne”, and Oberyn thought of as poison).

She is brought to Braavos with Oberyn when he is going to sign the wedding pact.

Illyrio didn’t know about the wedding pact, but he may well have found out that Viserys and/or Dany was staying in Braavos. At this point he is already raising Young Griff to be a king, and Varys has been in King’s Landing since before the rebellion. So clearly they’ve been plotting something, and it seems to me that Illyrio wouldn’t want Viserys or Dany claiming the Iron Throne. But he could still use them as pieces, he could parade them around Essos, preventing them from gaining any true friends or support while at the same time publicizing who Dany Stormborn is in every court in Essos until no man could question her blood.  Then he tries to marry her off to Drogo in hopes of gaining a Khalasar. I don’t expect he ever really wanted Viserys to survive.

So, I believe Illyrio is responsible for, or took advantage of, the death of the Sealord to take custody of Visery and Dany… toured them around Essos until they ended up at his mansion in Pentos at the start of the story, ready to be parlayed for a Khalasar.

Oh, and that Dany is the daughter of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen.

Cheers

I can see why you went and pushed this pot off the shelf. I'm not buying it, but you make a good argument. 

[Ghost+Nymeria4Eva]

9 hours ago, LynnS said:

 All of the Stark kids are 'roses' of Winterfell.

No they are wolves. The Tyrells are roses. The blue rose is only associated with Lyanna so far in the series. That's the connection between her and her progeny. Besides you forget that Bran is born after the war. He's too young to be Lyanna's son, who dies shortly after Rhaegar, just around the time the war concludes. 

Bran is not at the Wall. He is beyond the wall. 

9 hours ago, LynnS said:

How do we know that Bran is the 3EC?  It seems more likely to me that Jon is the 3EC. 

Have you read the books? There's a near literal three eyed crow there, Bloodraven. Bran is not that yet but he is learning under him and one day might take up the mantle. 

[Bloodraven's Spider]

A for effort and some really good points but no. Dany was conceived before the sack. Her father could be Rhaegar in some fashion. It's not hard to lie to a 8 year old boy (Viserys) who must b terrified at the time and hasn't a clue what's going on. But I highly doubt her parents are Rhaegar and Lyanna. I think she is who we expect. Th daughter of Aerys and Rhaella. Aegon is th son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. Though her name spelling out ser dayne has to be more then just coincidence. 

[Bloodraven's Spider]

2 hours ago, Ghost+Nymeria4Eva said:

No they are wolves. The Tyrells are roses. The blue rose is only associated with Lyanna so far in the series. That's the connection between her and her progeny. Besides you forget that Bran is born after the war. He's too young to be Lyanna's son, who dies shortly after Rhaegar, just around the time the war concludes. 

Bran is not at the Wall. He is beyond the wall. 

Have you read the books? There's a near literal three eyed crow there, Bloodraven. Bran is not that yet but he is learning under him and one day might take up the mantle. 

Bloodraven is not the 3 Eyed crow.