Did Rhaegar taste Dornishman's wife?

[AlaskanSandman]

On 12/2/2017 at 9:55 AM, RedGrace that was promised said:

Idea that Mance is not Rhaegar doesn't mean that the song couldn't be reference to Elia. If you have nothing to tell about the real question of this thread then go and try another one.

I feel the struggle hahaha don't get deterred and keep up the work

[AlaskanSandman]

 

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The World of Ice and Fire - The Targaryen Kings: Aerys II

 

Meanwhile, King Aerys was becoming ever more estranged from his own son and heir. Early in the year 279 AC, Rhaegar Targaryen, Prince of Dragonstone, was formally betrothed to Princess Elia Martell, the delicate young sister of Doran Martell, Prince of Dorne. They were wed the following year, in a lavish ceremony at the Great Sept of Baelor in King's Landing, but Aerys II did not attend. He told the small council that he feared an attempt upon his life if he left the confines of the Red Keep, even with his Kingsguard to protect him. Nor would he allow his younger son, Viserys, to attend his brother's wedding.

When Prince Rhaegar and his new wife chose to take up residence on Dragonstone instead of the Red Keep, rumors flew thick and fast across the Seven Kingdoms. Some claimed that the crown prince was planning to depose his father and seize the Iron Throne for himself, whilst others said that King Aerys meant to disinherit Rhaegar and name Viserys heir in his place. Nor did the birth of King Aerys's first grandchild, a girl named Rhaenys, born on Dragonstone in 280 AC, do aught to reconcile father and son. When Prince Rhaegar returned to the Red Keep to present his daughter to his own mother and father, Queen Rhaella embraced the babe warmly, but King Aerys refused to touch or hold the child and complained that she "smells Dornish."

 

The World of Ice and Fire - The Fall of the Dragons: The End

Birds flew and couriers raced to bear word of the victory at the Ruby Ford. When the news reached the Red Keep, it was said that Aerys cursed the Dornish, certain that Lewyn had betrayed Rhaegar. 

 

House Martell and what they are up to still has me going in circles, but i would say that Aerys was right to fear going to Old Town and into the hands of the Faith.

House Martell may have some connection to the Faith that Aerys is aware of and is the reason for his mistrust. 

Like, maybe he is aware of who Alleras is? Sarella Sand, daughter of Oberyn Martell, brother of Doran Martell. Who happens to be working with Maester Marwyn, who trained Mirri Maz Dur. 

[AlaskanSandman]

Combine with the fact that we're not told what Elia Martell's response was at Lyanna being crowned at Harrenhal.

With Martin simply saying that their relationship was "Complicated".

So what could have brought Elia Martell and Rhaegar Targaryen together if not love? Is it political? Or tied to prophecy? 

[Dragonsbone]

On 2.12.2017 at 6:55 PM, RedGrace that was promised said:

Idea that Mance is not Rhaegar doesn't mean that the song couldn't be reference to Elia. If you have nothing to tell about the real question of this thread then go and try another one.

You have lost yourself so much into bullshit tinfoil, that you have forgotten your own argumentation, which means a lot. Your tinfoil only (kinda) works if Mance is Rhaegar. 

[Alexis-something-Rose]

Wouldn't the song reference any woman who is married to a Dornishman? Mellario was married to Doran, that makes her the Dornishman's wife. And Nymeria was married to three different Dornishmen. 

With regard to the whole Elia/Rhaegar, I agree that what Aerys said about Rhaenys smelling Dornish is odd and if we add what we know Cersei did on the morning of her wedding with Jaime, then I guess Elia could do the same, but I also assumed Aerys was being a massive jerk and a racist because the child wasn't born from two Targaryen parents. 

 

[Sydney Mae]

On 12/2/2017 at 10:52 AM, RedGrace that was promised said:

Mance Ryder's (who is Rhaegar I believe) favourite song is Dornishman's wife. What if Elia secretly married before Rhaegar?

• It explains why Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna.
• (f)Aegon is bastard.

I'm sure Aerys and his advisers would have checked on Elia's background.  You bet a thorough vetting was done on her before Aerys consented to the marriage.  So no, Elia was not married before wedding Rhaegar.  Rhaenys and Aegon were/are legitimate.

[Universal Sword Donor]

I tend to disregard theories that Mance is Rhaegar because it makes no sense and is utterly moronic since we have the life history of Mance from people who've been there longer than Rhaegar was alive.

[Crona]

27 minutes ago, Widow's Watch said:

Wouldn't the song reference any woman who is married to a Dornishman? Mellario was married to Doran, that makes her the Dornishman's wife. And Nymeria was married to three different Dornishmen. 

With regard to the whole Elia/Rhaegar, I agree that what Aerys said about Rhaenys smelling Dornish is odd and if we add what we know Cersei did on the morning of her wedding with Jaime, then I guess Elia could do the same, but I also assumed Aerys was being a massive jerk and a racist because the child wasn't born from two Targaryen parents. 

 

But Aerys himself is part Dornish, from Mariah Martell and Dyanna Dayne, why even have your son marry Elia if you don’t like dornish people

[Ralphis Baratheon]

 

Wow. So what evidence is there that Elia was married before she was married to the Crown Prince? When nobles marry it's usually a big deal. If Rhaegar was able to find out that his wife wasn't his wife because she had already been married to a Dornishman then others like Varys and Aerys would know as well. 

And Rhaegar's one reaction to finding out that his wife was not his wife because she was already married is to write some song about tasting the a Dornishman's wife? Not "Hey the Dornish fooled me into a fake marriage with a woman who was already married and my children might not be mine at all?" Or "My mission in life to fulfill a prophecy by fathering three children is ruined?" Nope, I'm going to write some stupid song about how I had an affair with a Dornishman's wife and he'll kill me when he finds out I slept with her, and me being the Crown Prince surrounded by Kingsguard won't protect me from my fake wife's husband's wrath.

[Alexis-something-Rose]

5 minutes ago, Crona said:

But Aerys himself is part Dornish, from Mariah Martell and Dyanna Dayne, why even have your son marry Elia if you don’t like dornish people

Because she has a drop of Targaryen blood in her? Aerys staked a lot on a woman who was known to be frail of delicate of health. 

And I agree that Aerys has Dornish blood in him, but we also know he's not right in the head, so who knows what's going through hims mind or what thing Varys told him that he's been stewing in.

[Crona]

16 minutes ago, Widow's Watch said:

Because she has a drop of Targaryen blood in her? Aerys staked a lot on a woman who was known to be frail of delicate of health. 

And I agree that Aerys has Dornish blood in him, but we also know he's not right in the head, so who knows what's going through hims mind or what thing Varys told him that he's been stewing in.

 There are alsohouse Velaryon that have valyrian blood in them, and other Dragonstone vessels do too, but yes she does have targ blood.

But, being crazy and being a racist are two different things. I don’t think he was a racist, I think the child came out mostly dornish looking. He commented on it and also gave the readers a clue to possible dornish relations at the time and how the child looked.

[Alexis-something-Rose]

14 minutes ago, Crona said:

 I don’t think he was a racist, I think the child came out mostly dornish looking.

I can accept that since Rhaenys looked like her mother. 

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 There are alsohouse Velaryon that have valyrian blood in them, and other Dragonstone vessels do too, but yes she does have targ blood.

Maybe there are no daughters in those Houses, or none that are ready to be married. Elia is still about a year to two years older than Rhaegar. 

I have to ask, if it is the case that Elia did cheat, why would Rhaegar still be married to her? This is the perfect out. Why not take it when he has the chance?

[Crona]

31 minutes ago, Widow's Watch said:

 

I have to ask, if it is the case that Elia did cheat, why would Rhaegar still be married to her? This is the perfect out. Why not take it when he has the chance?

He may have discovered Aegon recently wasn’t his, and by the time he had Lyanna with him, the war broke out. And planned after the war to officially show Lyanna as his wife 

[Byfort of Corfe]

On 12/2/2017 at 2:21 PM, RedGrace that was promised said:

I haven't heard it. Do they have textural proof?

To be fair it isn't up to anyone to prove that it isn't, rather it is up to you to prove hat he is.  Eye color and height, that alone will be pretty hard to get around.

[Crona]

1 hour ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

 

Wow. So what evidence is there that Elia was married before she was married to the Crown Prince? When nobles marry it's usually a big deal. If Rhaegar was able to find out that his wife wasn't his wife because she had already been married to a Dornishman then others like Varys and Aerys would know as well. 

And Rhaegar's one reaction to finding out that his wife was not his wife because she was already married is to write some song about tasting the a Dornishman's wife? Not "Hey the Dornish fooled me into a fake marriage with a woman who was already married and my children might not be mine at all?" Or "My mission in life to fulfill a prophecy by fathering three children is ruined?" Nope, I'm going to write some stupid song about how I had an affair with a Dornishman's wife and he'll kill me when he finds out I slept with her, and me being the Crown Prince surrounded by Kingsguard won't protect me from my fake wife's husband's wrath.

Just a thought...but Rhaegar did get with Robert’s bethrothal and paid for it. Might have been better to write a song about it rather than meet him in a battlefield

[The Mountain that Cries]

Mance changes the words to a Northman's Daughter. Most people seems to think its about the Neds Fake girl, but if The Mance is indeed Rheagar. Than i say it's a referance to Lyanna. Not the Fake little Trollop Ramesy has. If so than it fits seeing as the dude dies after kissin the dornish broad and Rheagar essentially died after kissing(alot) a northman's daughter.  

[maudisdottir]

30 minutes ago, The Mountain that Cries said:

Not the Fake little Trollop Ramesy has.

Wow that’s a pretty harsh description of poor Jeyne Poole. She’s hardly to blame for the situation she’s in.

[The Mountain that Cries]

i didn't blame her and i think in ASOIAF being called a trollop may be the nicest thing she might be called by those around her. Just being cheeky

[Aegon VII]

Good luck, theories involving mance being rhaegar usually get bogged down by people who think they know better bashing them, it's really unfortunate. There is a shit ton of evidence supporting mance as rhaegar, but the argument always devolves the same way.

i don't think elaria was married prior but I do think there's a great chance mance is rhaegar and that the dornishmans wife could refer to Elia. Since it's a song you could half interpret it as dornish, man's wife, which Elia is. I think the song is more of a set up for the northmans daughter, which has much more of a parallel.

[purple-eyes]

Honestly this song always reminds me about Arthur Dayne, Elia and a Kingswood brother (mixture of Ulmer and smiling knight). 

Somebody (ulmer) stole a kiss from a dornish princess. Then a dornishman (arthur) with a magic dangerous blade (dawn) killed him (smiling knight) . If you combine ulmer and smiling knight, then everything fits. In the song, that guy even “smiled” becore he dies. 

I would not be surprised if one day GRRM reveals that Arthur and Elia are lovers and Aegon is a bastard son with Dayne blood. He can not only whitewash Rhaegar and Lyanna, but also shows us all men are flawed including Arthur Dayne. Plus young griff can work with Gerold Dayne and use Dawn. 

Think about this, we know every Dayne’s hair color and eye color, Ashara’s dark hair and violet eyes, Ned’s blond hair and deep blue eyes, Gerold’s silver hair with black streak and dark purple eyes. 

But we know nothing about famous Arthur Dayne’s hair colorand eye color? suspicious.