Did Rhaegar taste Dornishman's wife?

[Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn]

Mance Ryder's (who is Rhaegar I believe) favourite song is Dornishman's wife. What if Elia secretly married before Rhaegar?

• It explains why Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna.
• (f)Aegon is bastard.

[Faera]

Well, I think Mance is just Mance, personally. That is beside the point, though. I don't think 'The Dornishman's Wife' need be taken so literally.

[Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn]

2 minutes ago, Faera said:

Well, I think Mance is just Mance, personally. That is beside the point, though. I don't think 'The Dornishman's Wife' need be taken so literally.

But what does it matter, for all men must die,

and I've tasted the Dornishman's wife!"

[Faera]

4 minutes ago, Davos the Dragonslayer said:

But what does it matter, for all men must die,

and I've tasted the Dornishman's wife!"

By which I mean, it doesn't have to only be a Dornishman's wife. Death by going after the wrong woman is what I take away from the song's lyrics.

[Corvo the Crow]

It is beyond me why anyone thinks Mance is Rhaegar, sometimes a cloak is just a cloak

 

Ok, now this is Mance

Quote

The King-beyond-the-Wall looked nothing like a king, nor even much a wildling. He was of middling height, slender, sharp-faced, with shrewd brown eyes and long brown hair that had gone mostly to grey.

Here also Margaery and Loras

Quote

Whilst Alla, Elinor, and Megga took their turns with Tommen, Margaery took a turn around the floor with her father, then another with her brother Loras. The Knight of Flowers was in white silk, with a belt of golden roses about his waist and a jade rose fastening his cloak. They could be twins, Cersei thought as she watched them. Ser Loras was a year older than his sister, but they had the same big brown eyes, the same thick brown hair falling in lazy ringlets to their shoulders, the same smooth unblemished skin. A ripe crop of pimples would teach them some humility. Loras was taller and had a few wisps of soft brown fuzz on his face, and Margaery had a woman's shape, but elsewise they were more alike than she and Jaime. That annoyed her too.

So Mance is more like to be a Tyrell than a Targaryen.

 

This is Clydas

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Clydas blinked his dim pink eyes. "I will do my best, Jon. My lord, I mean."

Pink eyes, My lord instead of m'lord? Old habits die hard I guess. Clydas is Rhaegar confirmed!

 

Sometimes a sewed up cloak is just a slashed cloak

Quote

There were no true hills here, but Mance Rayder's white fur tent had been raised on a spot of high stony ground right on the edge of the trees. The King-beyond-the-Wall was waiting outside, his ragged red-and-black cloak blowing in the wind. Harma Dogshead was with him, Jon saw, back from her raids and feints along the Wall, and Varamyr Sixskins as well, attended by his shadowcat and two lean grey wolves.

 

[Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn]

Idea that Mance is not Rhaegar doesn't mean that the song couldn't be reference to Elia. If you have nothing to tell about the real question of this thread then go and try another one.

[Faera]

6 minutes ago, Davos the Dragonslayer said:

Idea that Mance is not Rhaegar doesn't mean that the song couldn't be reference to Elia. If you have nothing to tell about the real question of this thread then go and try another one.

There is nothing I have seen to suggest that the song has anything to do with Elia. With or without Rhaegar being Mance.

[Corvo the Crow]

34 minutes ago, Davos the Dragonslayer said:

Idea that Mance is not Rhaegar doesn't mean that the song couldn't be reference to Elia. If you have nothing to tell about the real question of this thread then go and try another one.

Actually it had everything to do about the real question, since you built it on Mance who likes the song being Rhaegar, therefore being married to Elia, who you propose may have married to someone else before Rhaegar/Mance.

If Mance =/= Rhagear then Mance isn't married to a Elia of Dorne, who would've been the dornishman's wife if she had a secret dornish husband before Rhaegar.

Instead of being hostile, perhaps you should construct your post better.

 

If you want to connect the song to anywhere, then perhaps connecting it to Qorgyle would be better.

The guy in the song loses his life because he slept with a woman he shouldn't have. Mance, who liked women according to Qhorin, does many things he as a brother of the NW isn't supposed to do, with the possible penalty being death, just as the Dornishman in the song killed the guy, Dornishlord in the Watch would have killed him.

 

Also below a quote

Quote

Grenn thrust his bow aside, wrestled a barrel of oil onto its side, and rolled it to the edge of the Wall, where Pyp hammered out the plug that sealed it, stuffed in a twist of cloth, and set it alight with a torch. They shoved it over together. A hundred feet below it struck the Wall and burst, filling the air with shattered staves and burning oil. Grenn was rolling a second barrel to the precipice by then, and Kegs had one as well. Pyp lit them both. "Got him!" Satin shouted, his head sticking out so far that Jon was certain he was about to fall. "Got him, got him, GOT him!" He could hear the roar of fire. A flaming giant lurched into view, stumbling and rolling on the ground.

Then suddenly the mammoths were fleeing, running from the smoke and flames and smashing into those behind them in their terror. Those went backward too, the giants and wildlings behind them scrambling to get out of their way. In half a heartbeat the whole center was collapsing. The horsemen on the flanks saw themselves being abandoned and decided to fall back as well, not one so much as blooded. Even the chariots rumbled off, having done nothing but look fearsome and make a lot of noise. When they break, they break hard, Jon Snow thought as he watched them reel away. The drums had all gone silent. How do you like that music, Mance? How do you like the taste of the Dornishman's wife? "Do we have anyone hurt?" he asked.

So Dornishman may very well be The Wall or The NW. Mance, by breaking his wovs, fucked with the Dornishman's wife, who at the time also had a Dornishman as Lord Commander.

This is the song

Quote

The Dornishman's wife was as fair as the sun,

and her kisses were warmer than spring.

But the Dornishman's blade was made of black steel,

and its kiss was a terrible thing.

The Dornishman's wife would sing as she bathed,

in a voice that was sweet as a peach,

But the Dornishman's blade had a song of its own,

and a bite sharp and cold as a leech.

As he lay on the ground with the darkness around,

and the taste of his blood on his tongue,

His brothers knelt by him and prayed him a prayer,

and he smiled and he laughed and he sung,

"Brothers, oh brothers, my days here are done,

the Dornishman's taken my life,

But what does it matter, for all men must die,

and I've tasted the Dornishman's wife!"

 

In a quick search, two black steel blades

Quote

Aye, those three I recall. The lordling no older than one of these pups. Too proud to sleep under my roof, him in his sable cloak and black steel. My wives give him big cow eyes all the same." He turned his squint on the nearest of the women. "Gared says they were chasing raiders. I told him, with a commander that green, best not catch 'em. Gared wasn't half-bad, for a crow. Had less ears than me, that one. The 'bite took 'em, same as mine." Craster laughed. "Now I hear he got no head neither. The 'bite do that too?"

 

Quote

Dolorous Edd was feeding the horses. "Give the wildling an axe, why not?" He pointed out Mormont's weapon, a short-hafted battle-axe with gold scrollwork inlaid on the black steel blade. "He'll give it back, I vow. Buried in the Old Bear's skull, like as not. Why not give him all our axes, and our swords as well? I mislike the way they clank and rattle as we ride. We'd travel faster without them, straight to hell's door. Does it rain in hell, I wonder? Perhaps Craster would like a nice hat instead."

 

Some more black stuff

 

Quote

 

It was soon revealed that the new recruit had brought his own armor with him; padded doublet, boiled leather, mail and plate and helm, even a great wood-and-leather shield blazoned with the same striding huntsman he wore on his surcoat. As none of it was black, however, Ser Alliser insisted that he reequip himself from the armory. That took half the morning. His girth required Donal Noye to take apart a mail hauberk and refit it with leather panels at the sides. To get a helm over his head the armorer had to detach the visor. His leathers bound so tightly around his legs and under his arms that he could scarcely move. Dressed for battle, the new boy looked like an overcooked sausage about to burst its skin. "Let us hope you are not as inept as you look," Ser Alliser said. "Halder, see what Ser Piggy can do."

 

"There were wildlings at Whitetree only a year ago." Thoren Smallwood looked more a lord than Mormont did, clad in Ser Jaremy Rykker's gleaming black mail and embossed breastplate. His heavy cloak was richly trimmed with sable, and clasped with the crossed hammers of the Rykkers, wrought in silver. Ser Jaremy's cloak, once . . . but the wight had claimed Ser Jaremy, and the Night's Watch wasted nothing.

 

"The black wool cloak of a Sworn Brother of the Night's Watch," said the King-beyond-the-Wall. "One day on a ranging we brought down a fine big elk. We were skinning it when the smell of blood drew a shadow-cat out of its lair. I drove it off, but not before it shredded my cloak to ribbons. Do you see? Here, here, and here?" He chuckled. "It shredded my arm and back as well, and I bled worse than the elk. My brothers feared I might die before they got me back to Maester Mullin at the Shadow Tower, so they carried me to a wildling village where we knew an old wisewoman did some healing. She was dead, as it happened, but her daughter saw to me. Cleaned my wounds, sewed me up, and fed me porridge and potions until I was strong enough to ride again. And she sewed up the rents in my cloak as well, with some scarlet silk from Asshai that her grandmother had pulled from the wreck of a cog washed up on the Frozen Shore. It was the greatest treasure she had, and her gift to me." He swept the cloak back over his shoulders. "But at the Shadow Tower, I was given a new wool cloak from stores, black and black, and trimmed with black, to go with my black breeches and black boots, my black doublet and black mail. The new cloak had no frays nor rips nor tears . . . and most of all, no red. The men of the Night's Watch dressed in black, Ser Denys Mallister reminded me sternly, as if I had forgotten. My old cloak was fit for burning now, he said.

 

As seen, Dornishman is equipped with a black steel blade, the color NW uses for their equipment.

 

 

 

[Megorova]

Where do people get ideas that Mance Rayder could be Rhaegar Targaryen, or Arthur Dayne? Mance was darkhaired, with dark eyes and middle height, while both Rhaegar and Arthur were tall, had light hair and violet/blue eyes. Not to mention that Mance never went away from The North.

[Aegon1FanBoy]

Mance being Rhaegar is as weird as people who theorize that cold hands is Daemon targaryen

[Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn]

1 hour ago, Megorova said:

Where do people get ideas that Mance Rayder could be Rhaegar Targaryen, or Arthur Dayne? Mance was darkhaired, with dark eyes and middle height, while both Rhaegar and Arthur were tall, had light hair and violet/blue eyes. Not to mention that Mance never went away from The North.

The song clearly states influence of Faceless men. Rhaegar is Mance.

But what does it matter, for all men must die,

and I've tasted the Dornishman's wife!"

[Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn]

8 minutes ago, Aegon1FanBoy said:

Mance being Rhaegar is as weird as people who theorize that cold hands is Daemon targaryen

I haven't heard it. Do they have textural proof?

[Aegon1FanBoy]

7 minutes ago, Davos the Dragonslayer said:

I haven't heard it. Do they have textural proof?

Nope i ask them as well they have yet to provide me as well.

[Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn]

9 minutes ago, Aegon1FanBoy said:

Nope i ask them as well they have yet to provide me as well.

I think that there is similarity between Daemon and Rhaegar. They both ruled the lands which are associated with Westeros but not part of it. King of Stepstones and King Beyond the Wall. 

[Wolf of The Wall]

I don't think that song is referencing anyone within the story frame. It may contain forshadowing but not a direct link. It's implied that the song is well known, old song. How it's implied? Because Jon knows and recognizes the song when he entered the Mace's tent. As for Mance = Rhaegar part, after this point i think anyone who claims Mance = Rhaegar, Qhorin = Arthur Dayne, Mance = Arthur Dayne is a troll or... well i don't want to be rude.

[Crona]

Well, I don’t think Rhaegar is Mance. But, do I think there is a chance that Elia was unfaithful and her children were bastards? Yes, I definitely do think so. It makes the story of Rhaegar, Lyanna, and Elia much more believable 

[maudisdottir]

On 03/12/2017 at 7:21 AM, RedGrace that was promised said:

I haven't heard it. Do they have textural proof?

Do you have "textual" proof that Mance is Rhaegar?

And the Dornishman's wife doesn't necessarily have to be Dornish herself. This is a pretty elaborate scenario you've constructed in order for Elia to fit into the song.

[The Fattest Leech]

2 hours ago, Crona said:

Well, I don’t think Rhaegar is Mance. But, do I think there is a chance that Elia was unfaithful and her children were bastards? Yes, I definitely do think so. It makes the story of Rhaegar, Lyanna, and Elia much more believable 

As in, “they smell Dornish”, as civil King Aerys claims??? I have often wondered this myself... plus a few other things associated with this scenario. 

Damn auto-UNcorrect!!!!

[Crona]

8 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

As in, “they smell Dornishmen”, as civil King Aerys claims??? I have often wondered this myself... plus a few other things associated with this scenario. 

Well, yes the quote by Aerys is interesting, and also we also they were not a couple in love.  Just makes more sense that Rhaegar would seek out another woman rather than his wife being infertile to birth another child

[AlaskanSandman]

44 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

As in, “they smell Dornishmen”, as civil King Aerys claims??? I have often wondered this myself... plus a few other things associated with this scenario. 

That's an interesting idea and i know id be interested to see more into this theory. Maybe not the Mance being Rhaegar part, as it seems to have people here splitting off on that tangent rather than the more interesting question about the song possibly hinting at Elia's kids not being Rhaegar's as Aery's quote does seem weird as he should have been fine with the Marriage, specially since it slighted Tywin. 

  I think Ashara Dayne was the paramour of Rhaegar Targaryen and that the Dishonor of Harrenhal, was Rhaegar setting Ashara aside for Lyanna. 

 So count me intrigued.