Free folk Daemon

Will Sansa be Queen of the Seven Kingdoms at the end of the story?

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Yeah, I don't see this happening. Her narrative suggests that she is going North not South. 

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Assuming there will even be Seven Kingdoms by the end. I don’t think so. It will be a new kingdom under one government in a new capital. She will be Queen Regent of a new realm in Westeros come spring, having gone through different figures like her mom, Cersei, Tyrells, Littlefinger, etc. which will sharpen her game at politics.

She will also be raising Jon’s twins as a mother figure and ruling in their name. She will also be a mother to her husband’s nephew - yes, I think she will stay married to the Imp by the end who will also not die and hold a powerful position in the government - Jaime and Brienne’s bastard son, unlike her mom Catelyn’s treatment of Jon Snow.

Edited by Scorpion92

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Queen of 7 Kingdoms? very unlikely. Queen of up to 3 of them? More likely, but still not very. 

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17 hours ago, Pikachu101 said:

I think she will be Queen in the North:

  1. She's paralleled to Elizabeth of York
  2. Her storyline revolves around the politics rather than the song
  3. Minus Rickon she's the only Stark whose in a position to take back the Northern crown
  4. She'll be backed by the North and Vale
  5. I feel like George has built her up to be the 'pawn to player' character trope

As for Queen of Westeros that's only possible if she marries whoever becomes king, can see a Henry/Elizabeth parallel through Aegon/Sansa but I'm 50% sure he's a fake so...

But Elizabeth of York, as you correctly state in the "Henry?Elizabeth" parallel was only a queen consort, she didn't rule anything  through her own power. So wouldn't that point more towards Sansa being a similar queen consort?
That being said yes I could, theoretically see a Aegon/Sansa marriage, maybe as a renewal of that Pact of Ice and Fire and a way to keep the North within the Realm.
And as for GRRm's plans...I'm not sure he has any concrete ones for Sansa since he has scrapped his original sotryline for her. What's happening to her seems like something he himself still has to find out.

16 hours ago, Scorpion92 said:

Assuming there will even be Seven Kingdoms by the end. I don’t think so. It will be a new kingdom under one government in a new capital. She will be Queen Regent of a new realm in Westeros come spring, having gone through different figures like her mom, Cersei, Tyrells, Littlefinger, etc. which will sharpen her game at politics.

She will also be raising Jon’s twins as a mother figure and ruling in their name. She will also be a mother to her husband’s nephew - yes, I think she will stay married to the Imp by the end who will also not die and hold a powerful position in the government - Jaime and Brienne’s bastard son, unlike her mom Catelyn’s treatment of Jon Snow.

Tat's a bit very optimistic, on all ends.

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53 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

Tat's a bit very optimistic, on all ends.

Well, I am an optimist lol.

But seriously, I see no other story trajectory for Sansa other than being in charge at the end of this all. All her character development leads to it.

People usually doubt that she can do this or she can do that, but not a lot of people realize that she has been dealing with people like Cersei, Tyrells, Littlefinger and all possible kinds of schemers in this game. If she is still standing and breathing after all these encounters (as well as besting and defeating LF at his own game in the future, “student defeats teacher” trope), then there is nothing she won’t be prepared for at the end of the books.

Especially given the fact that the magic part of this story will take more prominent and central part of this story, involving characters like Jon, Dany, Bran, etc. associated with magic component more. But come spring, I believe the fantasy element will disappear, and it will be back to realism and “game” to conclude the books, and no one will be better at the game than Sansa.

She will not be necessary experienced in any field like treasury, navy, military, intelligence, etc., but she will be the engine that makes all the branches of government work like a well-oiled machine. And to do that, you need to control and supervise people. Which is “the game”, essentially.

Edited by Scorpion92

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Miracles can happen but it doesn't make sense for Sansa to become queen.  She has no leadership skills and she's too selfish to make a good queen.

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1 hour ago, Scorpion92 said:

Well, I am an optimist lol.

But seriously, I see no other story trajectory for Sansa other than being in charge at the end of this all. All her character development leads to it.

People usually doubt that she can do this or she can do that, but not a lot of people realize that she has been dealing with people like Cersei, Tyrells, Littlefinger and all possible kinds of schemers in this game. If she is still standing and breathing after all these encounters (as well as besting and defeating LF at his own game in the future, “student defeats teacher” trope), then there is nothing she won’t be prepared for at the end of the books.

Especially given the fact that the magic part of this story will take more prominent and central part of this story, involving characters like Jon, Dany, Bran, etc. associated with magic component more. But come spring, I believe the fantasy element will disappear, and it will be back to realism and “game” to conclude the books, and no one will be better at the game than Sansa.

She will not be necessary experienced in any field like treasury, navy, military, intelligence, etc., but she will be the engine that makes all the branches of government work like a well-oiled machine. And to do that, you need to control and supervise people. Which is “the game”, essentially.

Oh i agree Sansa will have achieved something by the end of the story. She is one of my favourite characters. I'm just not sure we'll see that many dramatic, positive changes by the end of the story.

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1 hour ago, Scorpion92 said:

But seriously, I see no other story trajectory for Sansa other than being in charge at the end of this all. All her character development leads to it.

What development? 

1 hour ago, Scorpion92 said:

People usually doubt that she can do this or she can do that, but not a lot of people realize that she has been dealing with people like Cersei, Tyrells, Littlefinger and all possible kinds of schemers in this game. If she is still standing and breathing after all these encounters (as well as besting and defeating LF at his own game in the future, “student defeats teacher” trope), then there is nothing she won’t be prepared for at the end of the books.

When the bar for success is "still alive", it's not really a meaningful measure.

I mean I get it, can't sit the throne if you're dead... but really, that's her best qualification?

Because as far as I can tell she's the same self centered brat she's always been. And if she kills or lets LF kill her cousin Robert then I don't see any redemption for her.

All of that said I wouldn't be too surprised if she and Tyrion end up as King and Queen at the end of the day.

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Hmm, taking into account that "I will make them love me" would make a very disappointing way for GRRM to address his own "what was Aragorn’s tax policy" criticism of other fantacy works and assuming (and I can't stress this word enough) that there are only two novels left, then no, I don't see her as a ruler in the end. She could be a king's consort though, if some throne ended up to someone whom she could marry.

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6 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

She has no leadership skills

There's still time for her to learn besides she's the only Stark left and if her marriage to Harry goes through then she'll have the Vale behind her, the North would have no reason to reject her as their queen. 

6 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

she's too selfish to make a good queen.

How exactly is she selfish? Anyway it doesn't matter if she'd be a good queen or not because unless Davos can find Rickon she's the only Stark left. 

7 hours ago, Orphalesion said:

So wouldn't that point more towards Sansa being a similar queen consort?

Well George's parallels have never been straightforward, but if he does go down the Aegon/Sansa route (have a lot of doubts about this) then it would be a political match similar to Isabella of Castile and Ferdinand of Aragon. But this is all speculation because I'm pretty sure Aegon is Dany's Perkin Warbeck. 

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I see her somewhere between the RL and Eyrie, Northward. I think Bran will follow the TV route and Sansa will more likely stay in WF as Lady, Queen , wardeness or if Rickon isn't a shaggy dog regent in the North until he comes of age.

I don't think she wants anything to do with the South ever again, least of all live there.

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I don't think that there will be an Iron Throne at the end of this series but I do think that Sansa might end up ruling The North from Winterfell either as regional Queen or acting as regent to young Rickon until he is old enough to rule on his own. 

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I'm actually developing a little fan theory, which is that Sansa will use her marriage with Tyrion, who I think will never be accepted as Lord Lannister, to claim the Westerlands as his wife. Bringing peace between the West and the Iron Throne. There are some reasons I think this. To a degree this is of course dependent on that Sansa and Harry Hardying won't marry each other or that Sansa's real identity won't at least be discovered in relation with that marriage.

The first reason is that I think that Westeros will see a gradual loss of traditional male rulers in favor of untraditionally male or female rulers and that there is some forshadowing with both the number of women claiming the lordships of their husbands as well as Joanna Lannister during and after the Dance of the Dragons for something like this to happen and that Sansa has learned alot of what not to do from Cersei, so it makes sense in a way that Sansa will claim the West and bring good things that Cersei wouldn't be able to do. And to a degree this is what I would wish to happen.

in short, I don't see Sansa's final destination to be in the North but rather in the South.

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18 hours ago, ShadowCat Rivers said:

Hmm, taking into account that "I will make them love me" would make a very disappointing way for GRRM to address his own "what was Aragorn’s tax policy" criticism of other fantacy works and assuming (and I can't stress this word enough) that there are only two novels left, then no, I don't see her as a ruler in the end. She could be a king's consort though, if some throne ended up to someone whom she could marry.

The thing is nobody actually cares about Aragorn's spelling reform, and GRRM just said that because he doesn't like to be measured against Tolkien.
Plus we actually do get an idea pf spme of Aragorn's policies as a king (restoration of public parks and fountains, cultural intermingling, protection of minority cultures, re-colonization projects...) Tolkien just doesn't draw attention to them by crashing the story to halt to subject us to some repetitive audiences or council meetings (Tolkien only interrupts the story when he has a chance to describe trees)

13 hours ago, Pikachu101 said:

Well George's parallels have never been straightforward, but if he does go down the Aegon/Sansa route (have a lot of doubts about this) then it would be a political match similar to Isabella of Castile and Ferdinand of Aragon. But this is all speculation because I'm pretty sure Aegon is Dany's Perkin Warbeck. 

Of course you are right in that they aren't and yes, I have huge doubts on any Sansa/Aegon pairing as well. With Sansa I'm just completely clueless on what is gonna happen to her.
We see some development towards leadership with Alayne Stone (the creation of the Falcon knights etc.) but how all that will fit inot the War of the Dawn...

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11 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

The thing is nobody actually cares about Aragorn's spelling reform, and GRRM just said that because he doesn't like to be measured against Tolkien.
Plus we actually do get an idea pf spme of Aragorn's policies as a king (restoration of public parks and fountains, cultural intermingling, protection of minority cultures, re-colonization projects...) Tolkien just doesn't draw attention to them by crashing the story to halt to subject us to some repetitive audiences or council meetings (Tolkien only interrupts the story when he has a chance to describe trees)

Sure. And, while I do not entirely agree with it, I do get why people get frustrated with the Meereen plot. The thing is, the author not only has repeatedly posited that same critisicm (so that he *has* to heed his own word on the issue, IMO, no matter whether people like it or not) but also, he has actually included the nitty-gritty as well as the details of ruling, quite extensively at that, for his two "designated ruler" characters. In that sense, I do not expect another character to take on this aspect when they don't have comparable material in their own story.

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God I hope not I hate Sansa and only Sansa, the tickler is a better character then her.......

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the ending of her story will be of her usurping someone else, dont see her ruling a kingdom or  being a queen 

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Yes, watch GRRM's GOT episodes (he wrote them, it's canon), especially the blackwater one, there is a lot of emphasis on Sansa's abilities as queen and her relationship with Cersei (and Tyrion). There are hints in the books too, but that's tricky because there is foreshadowing for Dany, Arya, Arianne, etc. GRRM is very, very good at misleading people.

On 4/12/2017 at 6:05 PM, Queen Sansa Stark said:

Yeah, I don't see this happening. Her narrative suggests that she is going North not South. 

I agree, but Dany is in Essos and Jon has spent his entire life in the North, that's not a good point. 

On 5/12/2017 at 2:17 PM, ShadowCat Rivers said:

Hmm, taking into account that "I will make them love me" would make a very disappointing way for GRRM to address his own "what was Aragorn’s tax policy" criticism of other fantacy works and assuming (and I can't stress this word enough) that there are only two novels left, then no, I don't see her as a ruler in the end. She could be a king's consort though, if some throne ended up to someone whom she could marry.

Queen regent? Absolutely not, but queen consort? It's possible. 

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I disagree with the evidence but agree with the conclusion. There are many examples where people point out George taking ideas from a particular history, mythology, etc. that a lot of people seem to get the idea that he's basically doing some kind of retelling of that history/mythology. It would be somewhat weird for Sansa to be based off a Tudor when the Starks are already somewhat based on the Yorks. I've personally theorized that the Tyrells are somewhat based on the Tudors.

I still think there's a strong possibility that Sansa will have some type of major power role in the end, based on the fact that the original working title for book 7 was A Time for Wolves, and Sansa is learning from the best in terms of climbing the social ladder and being a devious genius. Littlefinger has basically gotten everything he wants so far without repercussions so I can see Sansa channeling this later on. 

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