Lollygag

So, what's your head canon?

58 posts in this topic

Since it’s been so long between books, we’ve probably all developed head canon ideas despite our best efforts. I suspect we’ll all be blind-sided in multiple ways during TWOW so let’s break ourselves in softly by calling ourselves out now. We’ve all seen our text evidence for what we think will happen, but over 5000+ pages of books proper plus a lot more material on the side, it’s hard to account for everything especially given that we all have our favorite parts of the series which we focus on and neglect those parts of the series which leaves us cold. It’s very easy to miss things or to selectively see things even though we really try not to do so.

Calling myself out (or having others call me out ;)) on some of my head canon ideas in the past have me reconsidering:

· All of the remaining Starks will reunite. Ned, Catelyn and Robb didn’t get their warm and fuzzy reunions before they died. It’s possible that any combination of Jon, Sansa, Arya, Bran and Rickon may never reunite.

· RLJ is probably true and it’ll be either abduction or eloping. There’s so many empty spots that I suspect there will be a massive twist in there somewhere. And technically, RLJ is head canon in itself.

· Jon will become KitN and/or King of the Seven Kingdoms. It’s possible neither of those may happen and that KitN and RLJ may affect his arc in a different way.

· Dany will kill the lies which must be slain. I think Dany’s lies which must be slain may not be enemies in the end. Killing the lie doesn’t necessarily mean killing the person. She may kill the lies by turning them into her allies. (Reason: if she doesn’t arrive in Westeros until the last book, that doesn’t leave much time for much of anything)

· All three dragons will have one rider each and they’ll be Dany, Aegon and Jon. It may not work out that all three dragons will have one rider. There may be no rider or multiple riders or unexpected riders like Brown Ben Plumm or Stannis.

· Sansa will become Littlefinger Jr. She may end up just good enough to keep the Starks out of the bad political situations which they’ve fallen into in the past. Given the Starks, that's not saying much, but it may be enough.

· Cersei will die shortly after her last kid dies. Cersei may live a long time (relatively given the length of the series) after the deaths of her kids.

· Jon and Stoneheart will be enemies. Jon and Stoneheart may be allies. If Stoneheart sees Jon (post RLJ reveal) as a means to an ends, she may work with him.

· Jaime and Cersei will reunite at some point and he may be the valonqar. Jaime and Cersei may never see each other again.

· There’s a conspiracy behind every corner. I’m sure some have noticed I do this. I’m quite convinced of this but I’ll admit that there may not be as many as I think there are.

I know I have some more that I haven’t really realized are there yet.

What are you expecting to happen or not happen which realistically you may be wrong about? What are some of your assumptions which don’t have as much weight as you’d like? What will make you feel blind-sided if it does or does not happen?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

R+L=J This is the only theory about Jon's birth that has ever made sense to me

E+AD= R&A I hear a lot of people saying that people only go for this theory in order to take blame away from Rhaegar but I disagree I don't think it takes any blame away from Rhaegar if fact I think it makes him look a little worse.

Jon becomes King in the North It's gonna happen, even if it doesn't happen in my head it has already happened

Lady Stoneheart tries to kill Jon If Jon becomes King in the North over True born heir Sansa Lady Stoneheart is not going to like that

Daenerys gets pregnant but doesn't have a baby YET  I think she might end up having another still born creature like her first born.

Jon has a baby with a Wight Walker Lady  I can't remember where I first saw theory and I haven't been able to find it since. I think it was taken down because it got a lot of hate but I thought it was great. I don't think it'll ever happen but I love it anyway.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Robert Arryn, King of Mountain and Vale. Robert Arryn will not only live through the series but in the end be one of the last powerful lords standing. Possibly even becoming The King of Mountain and Vale like the Arryn's of old. Everyone acts like he's pretty much already dead, it would be fitting if he survives when other stronger characters have died, IMO.

Stannis a dragonrider.  One of the dragons will get extremely injured and Stannis will nurse the dragon back to health like he did with his goshawk "Proudwing." Stannis having roughly a quarter of Targaryen blood himself will aid him in both being able to heal the dragon and ride it.

Edited by Ralphis Baratheon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

- The end of the novels will see Sansa in a powerful position.

- Robert Arryn is Littlefinger’s bastard.

- Robert Arryn will survive the series and become a great man. 

- Val will play a big role in burning Shireen. Jon (and the readership) will despise her for it. 

- The Children of the Forest are not as good as we think.

- The Others are not as bad as we think.

- The Freys will be somewhat redeemed. 

- Daenerys will kill Aegon and she’ll tell herself he was a fraud, but she and the readers will always have their doubts. 

- Daenerys is not who we think she is. 

- Myrcella may survive the series.

- At least one of Cersei’s children is Robert Baratheon’s.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, Wildling-Queen said:

E+AD= R&A

Sorry I’m not familiar with what this stands for? 

13 minutes ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

Robert Arryn, King of Mountain and Vale. Robert Arryn will not only live through the series but in the end be one of the last powerful lords standing. Possibly even becoming The King of Mountain and Vale like the Arryn's of old. Everyone acts like he's pretty much already dead, it would be fitting if he survives when other stronger characters have died, IMO.

I couldn’t agree more. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm in on many of the ideas above, so these are just some different ideas:

Gendry will not be legitimized

San/San will not happen

Either Jamie or Brienne will be killed and revived.  Jamie will become leader of the BWB

All of the missing VS swords will be found (or their loss will be explained)

The Tyrells will get 1 of the Iron Born VS swords

There will be 3 dragon riders

There will be many deaths in the battles to come early in TWOW

Jon is not dead but mortally wounded

The Wall will fall

At least 1, as many as 3 secret identities will be revealed on the Quiet Isle

Euron will be in charge of everything at the end of TWOW

Arya will go to Westeros by the end of TWOW

Sam will study archery with Arellas and learn everything needed to defeat the Others

Arienne will go all in with Aegon even if she doesn't believe he's Aegon

Davos will find Rickon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jaehaerys Tyrell said:

Val will play a big role in burning Shireen. Jon (and the readership) will despise her for it.

That is something I've never even considered, but it makes sense and has enough foreshadowing to make me feel stupid for not seeing it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

- Arya will successively receive 3 names as a faceless : Euron Greyjoy (or Victarion, depends on who will be associated to Dany), Daenerys Targaryen and finaly Arya Stark. 

- One dragon will never have a ride, and Viserion and Rhaegal will fight eachother, One will die

- Winterfell will be definitely destroyed in a flood

- Stark of Winterfell are originaly bastards and never had wolf's blood in their veins by birth : they stole it by "magic"

- Other(s) don't want to invade Westeros, they/he/she just want to have revenge against the "3 Eyed-Crow" for some actually unknown reason and probably regain something/someone they/she/he lost long long time ago (= husband ? wife ? children ?).

- Neither Jon, nor Dany nor Bran will survive the serie, but noone amongst the other characters will know for sure their fate (perhaps only Arya will know but won't never tell it), so stories will "start" about their return in the future. Only stories and legends, of course ^^

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

- Aegon is the real deal and also the Prince who is Promised but NOT the dragon with three heads

- the dragon with three heads is Dany who is Rhaegar's and Ashara's daughter

- the hidden Targaryen tapestries will be used to confirm Aegon's ancestry and Dany will eventually support her half-brother

- Sansa will be the only Stark who survives and she will finally marry her Prince of Dragonflies - Aegon

- Dany, Jon, Bran and Arya will all sacrifice themselves in some way

- Jamie will end up at the Wall

- Brienne will end up with the dawn sword; she will find Arya in the spring frozen in the ice, still clutching needle.  Brienne will write Jaime's deeds in the white book

- one of the dragons will be killed

- Cersei will end up married to Euron - his (casterly)rock wife and she will die in the dungeons by Qyburn's hand

- Tyrion will survive to scour the shire and write the histories and the song of ice and fire.

- the dragon with three heads has nothing to do with who will ride Dany's dragons

- Rhaegar is the singing dragon and the 'great' dragon that Dany wakes before hatching the eggs.  He is the dragon encased in black armor.  The three heads of the last dragon are Dany, Rhaegar and Drogon.

Famous last words:

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Jon XIII

Then Bowen Marsh stood there before him, tears running down his cheeks. "For the Watch." He punched Jon in the belly. When he pulled his hand away, the dagger stayed where he had buried it.

Jon fell to his knees. He found the dagger's hilt and wrenched it free. In the cold night air the wound was smoking. "Ghost," he whispered. Pain washed over him. Stick them with the pointy end. When the third dagger took him between the shoulder blades, he gave a grunt and fell face-first into the snow. He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold …

 

Arya will give Jon the gift of mercy.

Edited by LynnS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Rhaegar, Dany and Jon are the three heads of the dragon (too many parallels between the 3 to ignore, I think)
  • Arya will go back to Westeros with Dany
  • House Martell will be ousted from power or obliterated by the end of Winds, by their own vassals
  • Jon Conn, Aegon will get to meet Jon Snow
  • Howland Reed knew exactly what he would find at the ToJ
  • I think whatever Mel might do to bring back Jon will weaken the Wall and make it easier to breach that way
  • Jon will be regent for Rickon
  • The Blackwood - Bracken feud contributed to the fall of the Targaryens. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

- Aegon is real and will fight Dany's invasion

- Gendry will be legitimized, probably by Stannis (hell, Stannis might legitimize them all as a last Fuck You to the realm that rejected him).

- Stannis will be the 1,000th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch

- Dany is Targ mad and will snap

- The North was glacially locked before the CotF broke the Arm and let warm currents go through the Narrow Sea. (may have been the original thing that pissed off the Others.)

- Sansa will seduce/help seat Harry the Heir, use him to bring the knights of the Vale north for the War of the Dawn. 

- Manderly's main army is waiting outside Winterfell and intercepting messengers 

- Manderly is going to go out in an epic boss way

- Victarion isn't as stupid as we think he is. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Greetings all, I'm a relatively new arrival in Westeros, but soon got addicted :D

 

I'm on my third re-read of the year, trying to get to grips with my own head canon, and some salient points:

  • I'm not ENTIRELY on board with R+L=J -  I think I'll leave it at ?+L=J for now, or wouldn't discount that the R may be Robert. Anyway, I'm convinced that Jon is Lyanna's son and not Eddard's. The thing that still bugs me is that Jon is notably described as being 'dark' in his colourings, which sounds more Baratheon than Targaryen to me. Part of my current re-read is aimed at tracking possible timescales and movements, because I can't really see that fitting either, unless there's a window for Robert to get in there before the abduction (in which case Rhaegar 'abducted' not only Robert's love, but his child, too)....
  • I'm expecting some more revelations about the parentage of the Lannister siblings. There are so many hints in the text regarding Aerys and Joanna, and there is Genna (at Riverrun) telling Jaime that only Tyrion is really Tywin's son - now does she mean genetically, or that Tyrion is the only one who lives up to what is expected of a Lannister? Of course it could be sort of ironic, meaning that Tyrion might NOT be truly Lannister, yet is STILL the most like Tywin? Something else my latest re-read is aimed at.
  • I really want to see some explanation of how/why the seasons work on Planetos. They seem to be quite irregular - summers and winters vary in length, and last more than a year.  This suggests the physics of the 'Solaros system' are pretty messed up, and it could be related to the lost moon and eccentric orbits etc. OR could it be driven by magical forces on the ground? i.e. do the Others come when it's cold, or do they bring the cold when they come? There clearly are 'tides' of magic, and I get the impression that the re-appearance of dragons has increased the efficacy of fire-magic (eg pyromancers' spells, and Marwyn's black candle) and I wonder if this is feeding the powers of the Red Priests, too. Thoros had never been particularly devout, then he suddenly starts bringing back Beric...
  • I'm still open-minded about Aegon VI/Young Griff. It looks good on the surface, JonCon is in a position to know the truth of it, but given the whole Wars of the Roses resonance in this tale, we could be looking at a Perkin Warbeck or Lambert Simnel figure.
  • Arthur Dayne - there's something going on there, but I'm not yet prepared to commit to a theory. It ties in with the Dayne family's affection towards Eddard which is a really dissonant note. I'm expecting a surprise or face-palm moment when it is revealed in WoW....
  • Tin foil: three main uses - making hats; making radar chaff to hide the real target; wrapping turkeys ;)
Edited by Rufus Snow
I'm a bit anal about grammar...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Rufus Snow said:

I really want to see some explanation of how/why the seasons work on Planetos. They seem to be quite irregular - summers and winters vary in length, and last more than a year.  This suggests the physics of the 'Solaros system' are pretty messed up, and it could be related to the lost moon and eccentric orbits etc. OR could it be driven by magical forces on the ground? i.e. do the Others come when it's cold, or do they bring the cold when they come? There clearly are 'tides' of magic, and I get the impression that the re-appearance of dragons has increased the efficacy of fire-magic (eg pyromancers' spells, and Marwyn's black candle) and I wonder if this is feeding the powers of the Red Priests, too. Thoros had never been particularly devout, then he suddenly starts bring back Beric...

Like you, I wanted this as well for the seasons.  However, I heard that some people cleverer than me had attempted to try and work it out and couldn't and that apparently GRRM said 'it's magic'.  Sadly I don't have quotes for either of these, but I've gone with 'it's magic' myself.  One possible resolution of ASoIF is that magic will be brought back into balance, and therefore the seasons will return to balance as well.  But I wouldn't bet on anything myself ;)

Regarding 'tides of magic', it is interesting to speculate what is cause and what is effect.  Is an increasing amount of magic what allowed the dragons to hatch, or the dragons hatching increased magic, or is it both (which would be valid)?  Is the return of the Others linked to a rise in magic (though they appeared to have started moving some time before the start of GoT)?  If not, what triggered them? (Last time it appears to be on the onset of the 'Long Night', but we've not seen a similar kind of event yet, but the Others are already on the way...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Oldbus, and thanks for the reply

7 minutes ago, oldbus said:

apparently GRRM said 'it's magic'

phew, it's better than trying to work out interplanetary physics anyway. I did a trawl of the SSMs, but couldn't find any guidance there.

 

I quite agree that balancing the magics is a major theme, but whether that goes on a 'balancing the scales' basis or as enantiodromia is still an open question. But that sort of condundrum is what makes this series such a darn good read.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Rufus Snow said:

I really want to see some explanation of how/why the seasons work on Planetos. They seem to be quite irregular - summers and winters vary in length, and last more than a year. 

Per oldbus, "it's magic." I asked George RR myself a few years ago, when he gave a session at the convention in Albuquerque, and that was his very brief reply.

It's interesting that each change of season is announced by the maesters at the Citadel in Oldtown. How can they tell? Particularly given that the years, which astronomy will define, are separate and disjoint from the seasons? Are they, in fact, determining when the seasons change, that is actually causing it? If so, how does this fit in with their widely-known deprecation of magic? Did the maesters also kill off all the dragons? I'm guessing yes, dunno, and yes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • United States of Westeros:  (or heading that way). No reason for believing this except that I think grrm would like a Tolkeinesque ending, while being extra reformist and progressive.
  • Arya and Gendry as co-rulers: the reformist leaders for the above. Somehow they win the position by general acclaim and on merit, instead claiming it by ancestry.
  • Tyrion dragonrider: Tyrion steals a dragon and flees to the Eyrie, planning to build his power base in the Vale. Instead, he joins the battle for the dawn, ferrying a bunch of heroes north to Winterfell.
  • Sansa ice witch: Sansa goes over to the dark side, gaining power over ice, but also a reputation worse than Mad Danelle's. Everything kindly meant, of course.
  • Mega death in the North: the dead lands to include the Gift and the New Gift, and probably all the way to the Neck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Lollygag said:

Calling myself out (or having others call me out ;)) on some of my head canon ideas in the past have me reconsidering:

· All of the remaining Starks will reunite. Ned, Catelyn and Robb didn’t get their warm and fuzzy reunions before they died. It’s possible that any combination of Jon, Sansa, Arya, Bran and Rickon may never reunite.

Sansa, Jon, Arya and Rickon reunite in winterfell.  Bran never leaves the Tree and Rickon is too wild and goes back to skagos 

11 hours ago, Lollygag said:

· RLJ is probably true and it’ll be either abduction or eloping. There’s so many empty spots that I suspect there will be a massive twist in there somewhere. And technically, RLJ is head canon in itself.

  It is eloping, but nobody would really know, except for Bran, but he is never leaving the tree.  Meera probably delivers the news but noone will believe her 

11 hours ago, Lollygag said:

· Jon will become KitN and/or King of the Seven Kingdoms. It’s possible neither of those may happen and that KitN and RLJ may affect his arc in a different way.

Once he is healed/resurrected Robb's will comes into play and Jon is named heir as Rickon is too wild and Bran is beyond the wall 

11 hours ago, Lollygag said:

· Dany will kill the lies which must be slain. I think Dany’s lies which must be slain may not be enemies in the end. Killing the lie doesn’t necessarily mean killing the person. She may kill the lies by turning them into her allies. (Reason: if she doesn’t arrive in Westeros until the last book, that doesn’t leave much time for much of anything)

Dany is not literally AA reborn, but she is the Archetype, Killing her beloved to hatch (forge) her flaming weapons. she coming with flaming weapons will show the claim of stannis as AA reborn to be a lie .

11 hours ago, Lollygag said:

· All three dragons will have one rider each and they’ll be Dany, Aegon and Jon. It may not work out that all three dragons will have one rider. There may be no rider or multiple riders or unexpected riders like Brown Ben Plumm or Stannis.

 My guess is that the dragons are what outs (f)Aegon i he is fake. I also think one dragon will die, leaving Dany and Jon as the Riders 

11 hours ago, Lollygag said:

· Sansa will become Littlefinger Jr. She may end up just good enough to keep the Starks out of the bad political situations which they’ve fallen into in the past. Given the Starks, that's not saying much, but it may be enough.

I can see this. I also think she sets him up for death, possibly by turning her over to Cersei 

11 hours ago, Lollygag said:

· Cersei will die shortly after her last kid dies. Cersei may live a long time (relatively given the length of the series) after the deaths of her kids.

I think Cersei will live a long time. The death of her final child will be what makes her truly mad. 

11 hours ago, Lollygag said:

· Jon and Stoneheart will be enemies. Jon and Stoneheart may be allies. If Stoneheart sees Jon (post RLJ reveal) as a means to an ends, she may work with him.

I doubt the two will meet, but as she was last seen heading into the neck, the reeds may inform her of Jon's father and mother.  I would hope that Arya is the one who finally puts her to rest

11 hours ago, Lollygag said:

· Jaime and Cersei will reunite at some point and he may be the valonqar. Jaime and Cersei may never see each other again.

I have always thought Jamie was the big "V" and will kill cersei after her actions get Tomen offed 

11 hours ago, Lollygag said:

· There’s a conspiracy behind every corner. I’m sure some have noticed I do this. I’m quite convinced of this but I’ll admit that there may not be as many as I think there are.

The GNC, while not as big as folks in here think it is, is a result of Robb's will 

The Bittersweet ending will be several fold. I do not think Rickon will live or if he survives, he will not return to Winterfell. 
 Jon or Sansa will die. Arya will die fighting with needle and Bran will never leave the tree. He was the First POV in the books and he will be the last, after watching the war, the victory for the dawn, then watching his family and their descendents grow up, grow old and die, all via weirnet, while waiting for the next "last" greenseer to be born 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now