Angel Eyes

So did Renly believe that Robert’s “children” were incest-born?

30 posts in this topic

12 hours ago, Humble Maester said:

And of course we know Ned never got another chance to tell Renly what was going on, being beheaded and all.

I agree with most of what you said, and actually probably this as well, I just wanted to point out that Ned did write a letter while in the Black Cells and gave it to Varys... although we don't know what it said or if it was delivered (it may well have had to do with Gendry and Roberts natural children).

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24 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

I agree with most of what you said, and actually probably this as well, I just wanted to point out that Ned did write a letter while in the Black Cells and gave it to Varys... although we don't know what it said or if it was delivered

I may be nitpicking, but we don't know for sure that he did write the letter, all we know is that he asked.  It is certainly possible he wrote, and Varys delivered it.  My take on it always was that he never did based on his conversation with Varys because Ned knew that he couldn't trust him.  If he did write it, Varys could have used whatever information as he said, for his own ends......It is an interesting thought though.....

Quote

"Would you at least consent to carry a message out for me?"

"That would depend on the message. I will gladly provide you with paper and ink, if you like. And when you have written what you will, I will take the letter and read it, and deliver it or not, as best serves my own ends."

"Your own ends. What ends are those, Lord Varys?"

 

35 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

(it may well have had to do with Gendry and Roberts natural children).

Could be....It is possible that this is how Cersei knew (via Varys) where to send Allar Deem to kill Barra, and also the Gold Cloaks to capture Gendry.  

I had always assumed that Varys already knew about most/all of Robert's bastards before their conversation in the Black Cells, based on the fact that Littlefinger knew where to take Ned to show him.  If LIttlefinger knew, then the chances are good that Varys already knew.   

It is interesting to think about though, thanks @LiveFirstDieLater

Sorry, very off topic...

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21 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

Renly literally gave Eddard a life line and Ned spat on it. It was perhaps Ned's biggest mistake to trust Baelish over Renly. Renly was a walking talking representation of what Ned remembered Robert to be, the King he believed in. For whatever reason Ned chose to ignore this sign and it cost him his life.

I just want to hit a "like" button, but alas they don't exist here yet, so I will just tell you : I really like and agree with your post.

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1 hour ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

I just want to hit a "like" button, but alas they don't exist here yet, so I will just tell you : I really like and agree with your post.

Thanks. I think Renly was a very interesting character and out of the combatants for the IT would have made the best King. I would have really liked a POV from either Renly or someone close to him like Loras. Get more conversations like the one he had with Catelyn.  

16 hours ago, zandru said:

He thus failed to see the shrewd politician beneath the rainbow banners

Agreed. Hindsight is always 20/20, especially for us readers, but I think had Ned and Renly taken more time to form a relationship/partnership I think things would have went differently. 

16 hours ago, zandru said:

Baelish because Catelyn vouched for him

Yes. Had Cat never vouched for Baelish I think Ned might have turned to Renly to confide in. I think out of all the options that were present it would have been most likely he'd trust Renly. 

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He knows it because everyone on the small council knew about it because Littlefinger told everybody. That is why he started to plot to replace Cersei with Margaery. In public he just claimed he doesn't believes to cuck Stannis and conquer Throne like Robert.

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Tbh everyone tried to out cuck each other 

hypothetical Robert would’ve known as well, one simply can’t be drunk and whoring for 17 years without sobering once for 5 mins and thinking wtf these arent my kids

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4 hours ago, Tygett Lannister said:

He knows it because everyone on the small council knew about it because Littlefinger told everybody.

I'm not sure if this is sarcasm. In case it is not Barristan certainly did not know and as far as we know, by his words and actions, Renly also did not know. 

4 hours ago, Tygett Lannister said:

That is why he started to plot to replace Cersei with Margaery

This makes no sense. He is trying to seduce Robert with the Lyanna 'lookalike' so he will put aside his marriage to Cersei, this is made clear in one of the first chapters of the series. She is his weapon to break up the marriage and lessen Cersei's power. If Renly knows then she becomes superfluous to his plans as he has information that will not only end the marriage but end Cersei herself. He can save Margaery for himself and the power and influence that comes with her hand. 

Kings can put aside their wives in Westeros not only is it mentioned in the latest novella when the High Septon requests it from the Maegor but we see it in the Rogue Prince when Daemon asked his brother to put aside his marriage to Lady Royce. 

4 hours ago, Tygett Lannister said:

 

. In public he just claimed he doesn't believes to cuck Stannis and conquer Throne like Robert.

It is actually far easier to win the throne if he is just usurping Stannis than it would be usurping Joffrey, Tommen and Stannis. The residents of Westeros are not book readers, they don't have the same hatred of Joffrey as we do nor do they associate him as a Lannister/Waters but as Robert's legal heir and successor. 

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Bottom line:  Renly thought he deserved to be king because he had the popular support.  It's a modern notion that's out of place for that time period and place.

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26 minutes ago, Tour De Force said:

Bottom line:  Renly thought he deserved to be king because he had the popular support.  It's a modern notion that's out of place for that time period and place.

This is not entirely true. He offers Ned his support in arresting Cersei and letting Ned rule the realm through Joffrey. Renly makes no mention of his involvement in the running of the government (presumably he'd remain doing what he was already doing). 

Ned refuses him and Renly points out that Cersie gaining power would lead to their doom

Lord Renly took a step back, taut as a bowstring. "Every moment you delay gives Cersei another moment to prepare. By the time Robert dies, it may be too late … for both of us."

And yet Ned still refuses,  Renly then leaves, whoch makes sense given his warning to Ned about their safety,  and while he is away hears of the arrest and then execution of Ned Stark and also hears the news that Cersie has demanded he, along with other nobles, come to Kings Landing to swear their fealty or lose their lands

From a drooping sleeve, heavy with gilded scrollwork, he drew a parchment, unrolled it, and began to read a long list of names, commanding each in the name of king and council to present themselves and swear their fealty to Joffrey. Failing that, they would be adjudged traitors, their lands and titles forfeit to the throne. The names he read made Sansa hold her breath. Lord Stannis Baratheon, his lady wife, his daughter. Lord Renly Baratheon.

Now given his warning to Ned and the fact that Ned was still executed despite, to Renly's knowledge, his support of Cersei he was put in an impossible situation, go to Kings Landing and be arrested or fight and gather support before they themselves have made deals with the new King. He choose the latter. 

 

I'm not saying Renly is not also ambitious and opportunistic, he was, but there are multiple reasons why Renly crowned himself and one of those reasons was self preservation. 

 
 

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