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US Politics: For Whom the Bell Tolls


Fragile Bird

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Just now, Dr. Pepper said:

He won't lose.  That's a given.  We will have a pedophile Senator who thinks the antebellum period is something to be nostalgic about, even with all that slavery.  

But back then America wasn't getting pushed around!  Remember that time Obama let a few thousand British troops burn down the White House? 

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2 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Roy Moore is a terrible, terrible, terrible human being.  If he is elected I sincerely hope he is immediately expelled from the Senate.

Sure but what does it say about the state of our country when someone like Roy Moore most likely will be elected? The voters know all of this about him and still don’t care enough to do something about it.

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I can see how the Republican leaders think they can work this if Moore wins.  First, they say they didn't interfere, they let the people of Alabama choose their Senator, just like the American people chose their President.    Then they expel Moore to show how they support women and ethics and such.   This then allows the Republican governor to appoint a new Republican senator from Alabama, so they still keep the seat.  

Then they try and use Moore's expulsion as a threat to try and control Trump, and if that doesn't work, they use it to impeach him and put Pence in charge without having to deal with the Russia issues.

This of course all falls apart if hopefully Jones wins.

 

 

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I can't see the GOP Senate expelling Moore, especially since Trump has been vocal with his support.  

You have to remember, this Senate approves of sexual assault.  They have Trump on tape admitting to it and they still approved of him enough to vote for him and to continue to support him.  Most of them are overtly racist so Moore's nostalgia about slavery is just business as usual.  They don't give a shit, their base doesn't give a shit.

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1 minute ago, Leofric said:

I can see how the Republican leaders think they can work this if Moore wins.  First, they say they didn't interfere, they let the people of Alabama choose their Senator, just like the American people chose their President.    Then they expel Moore to show how they support women and ethics and such.   This then allows the Republican governor to appoint a new Republican senator from Alabama, so they still keep the seat.  

Then they try and use Moore's expulsion as a threat to try and control Trump, and if that doesn't work, they use it to impeach him and put Pence in charge without having to deal with the Russia issues.

This of course all falls apart if hopefully Jones wins.

Except they're not going to do any of that.  Moore will win and he'll be the Senator from Alabama.  At worst, Republicans will have some sort of inquiry that ends with some tut-tuting about Moore's behavior, and then Moore continues to be Senator. 

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35 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

I have said for years that it is really baffling to me why conservatives want to listen to news that is as baised and nonsensical as the Conservative Media.  Why isn't there a right equivalent of MSNBC?  As in, unapologetically biased, but fact based.  They'll spin things your way, but you still know that they don't make things up.  Even on the internet this can be hard to find; the only examples I've come across are the pro-business publications like WSJ.

You’ll find the answer in political psychology. I haven’t read up on the subject in a while, but IIRC, conservatives are less likely to be driven by fact based reporting, more likely to support things that match their gut instincts and are more likely to seek out information and news sources that reinforce their world views (someone correct me if I am wrong).

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That is giving Republicans way more credit than they deserve.

I do not think they will make any push to remove Moore. Moreover, they will not try to send any message to Trump, they haven't all year. Trump will never be impeached by a Republican controlled congress, no matter what investigations turn up, no matter how dangerous or insane he gets with foreign policy, no matter how much he alienates and antagonizes 2/3rds of the population. The Republicans are complicit conspirators and enablers, not hostages.

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The Republican Party: They know how to pick some real winners for the presidency.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/his-support-drops-new-low-trump-makes-history

Quote

As the first year of the Donald Trump presidency nears its end, most national polling puts his approval rating in the mid- to high-30s, which is roughly where it’s been since the summer. The latest national report from the Pew Research Center found that the Republican president has actually reached a new low, with his support dropping to just 32%.

To put that in context, among other presidents from this generation, Bill Clinton had the lowest approval rating at the end of his first year, and his support stood at 48% at this point in 1993. Trump is 16 points below that level, which is just embarrassing. The president wanted to make history, and he has, though probably not in the way he had in mind.

 

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1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said:

Lol, our president is insane

At least he isn't tweeting out a poll from two months ago like he did last time. 

He probably just assumes that 45% is a good enough number to win with.  After all, he won the Presidency with just 46% of the vote. 

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1 hour ago, Mexal said:

Sure but what does it say about the state of our country when someone like Roy Moore most likely will be elected? The voters know all of this about him and still don’t care enough to do something about it.

Their leaders told them to vote for him. If Trump came out and opposed it they wouldn't. Simple as that. 

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https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/9kdb3a/dystopian-sketches-from-inside-the-inauguration-protesters-trial

IDK if anyone has been following this trial, but it's pretty scary. These people could be anyone that shows up to a protest. Some tmes windows get broken, and people do get kettled. It happens to a lot of activists and journalists.

And now these defendants are facing up to 60 years in prison just for doing what so many of people have done. This country needs to respond if they get convicted for these ridiculous charges.

And the DC PD Detective Greggory Pemberton, the man behind this politically motivated J20 felony prosecution, follows a Twitter account associated with /pol/, one of the main online hubs for neo-nazi 'alt right' harassment campaigns.

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10 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

Well, apparently everyone has their breaking point.  

Yes, there has to come a particular moment when someone consciously changes their mind. But it should be noted that Bardella, like most people, went through a process here, and reports starting to have disagreements or doubts in March 2016. As the title of his piece says, the RNC supporting Roy Moore was "the last straw" -- a lot of other straws had to accumulate before that could be his last one.

I point this out not because I don't think Mlle. Zabzie knows this -- but because I think people in general need to be reminded that few people change long standing affiliations over night. Change is always slower than many think it should be, but it does happen. 

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24 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

First response to this is "I bet your approval is actually 15% higher."

Hahahaha.  Like, these people.  

Reality is for losers anyways…..

24 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

At least he isn't tweeting out a poll from two months ago like he did last time. 

He probably just assumes that 45% is a good enough number to win with.  After all, he won the Presidency with just 46% of the vote. 

It’s quite depressing that it could be considered praise to say that at least the president tweeted a current poll this time. But otherwise yeah, you’re right. From day 1 he’s had no interest in expanding his base, so 45% will do.

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2 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Reality is for losers anyways…..

It’s quite depressing that it could be considered praise to say that at least the president tweeted a current poll this time. But otherwise yeah, you’re right. From day 1 he’s had no interest in expanding his base, so 45% will do.

Except of course, that poll is a positive outlier for him from a pollster that has been consistently favorable to him.  Trump probably thinks that these outlier polls are the "right" ones, just like they were in 2016. 

In contrast, his critics can just as easily point out (as I did in the last thread) the disastrous Pew poll, which had his approval/disapproval at 32/63.  I'd love to see him tweet that one. 

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22 minutes ago, Ormond said:

Yes, there has to come a particular moment when someone consciously changes their mind. But it should be noted that Bardella, like most people, went through a process here, and reports starting to have disagreements or doubts in March 2016. As the title of his piece says, the RNC supporting Roy Moore was "the last straw" -- a lot of other straws had to accumulate before that could be his last one.

I point this out not because I don't think Mlle. Zabzie knows this -- but because I think people in general need to be reminded that few people change long standing affiliations over night. Change is always slower than many think it should be, but it does happen. 

Totally agree.  It's more of a reminder that change is possible and that there shouldn't be despair.  People DO evolve.

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12 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

Totally agree.  It's more of a reminder that change is possible and that there shouldn't be despair.  People DO evolve.

Agreed as well.  Things are looking pretty shitty right now, but we are only 1 year into this thing.  I have no doubts that Trump will be able to keep a good chunk of his base on board no matter what, but there will be plenty of people who voted for Trump in 2016 that will be sick of him come 2020.  He didn't have a political record in 2016, he will in 2020.  I think to an extent a lot of conservative types are still basking in beating Clinton and generally gleeful in that they are pissing off liberals, but the victory lap that's been going on for the first year isn't going to carry 2020 all by itself.  It'll wear off, and Trump doesn't have what it takes to evolve into even a decent, non-embarrassing president.  

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