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US Politics: For Whom the Bell Tolls


Fragile Bird

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2 minutes ago, Fez said:

This does bring up the interesting (albeit minor) question of which write-in name gets the most votes. Saban is a good guess, I think Shelby will get a decent amount too.

You think people will vote for the other (sitting) Alabama Senator?  That seems like an odd choice - Sessions, Strange and Saban all make more sense to me. 

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12 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

To bring this back to politics, I have reached a point where I'd fully support the banning of evangelicals from holding office.  

As tempting as that sometimes is for a leftist, it would be just as wrong as the fundamentalists in the evangelical party who want to deny basic rights to the LGBTQ community, people of color, other faiths, and non-believers.

I happen to believe it would certainly lead to a far better outcome, but it would still be just as wrong.

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1 hour ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

I had to laugh at a report on Roy Moore on Sky News. It just showed the massive gulf between the liberal establishment and people in the religious heartlands of America. The matter-of-fact style of the British reporter made it even more striking. His intention was to state all the reasons why Roy Moore is a terrible candidate, by listing some extreme beliefs of the man.

So he starts off by saying the guy is a Christian then proceeds to his anti-gay stance and potential controversial racial issues in his past, and then tries to top it off  by saying that he believes Islam is a false religion. The last part was just so strikingly out of touch to me. Because while I can fully understand why the overly sensitive, humanist Europeans (and I include the British here) may find the idea that all religions are not equal to be astoundingly offensive, the basic principle of the Christian faith is that all other religions are false.

So the mere fact that Moore is a Christian, really should by default mean that he would view Islam as a false religion. That in itself does not make him some kind of extremist. The other points against Moore may remain quite valid, but this one was just absurd.

Well I would hope that a country that included equality of religions in their constitution would also find this offensive. But then many American's seem to only care about the part that talks about guns.

 

Also sky news? Liberal? :lmao:

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15 hours ago, Mexal said:

It could but they seem resistant to that.

They can only resist it for so long though, especially if the tax plan fails.

15 hours ago, OldGimletEye said:

The Treasury Departments “analysis” is not even as good as some paper that some college undergraduate hurriedly did at the last minute, while drunk, hung over, and stoned.

Though I’m sure it’s getting rave reviews at the CEO Business Clowntable.
 

I take offense to this as someone who did this throughout college and had a 3.936 GPA.

:P

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21 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

You think people will vote for the other (sitting) Alabama Senator?  That seems like an odd choice - Sessions, Strange and Saban all make more sense to me. 

Sure. To the average, non-Moore supporting Alabama Republican, Shelby is doing a bang up job as a senator (and has been in the news a lot the past few weeks attacking Moore); why not vote for him again? I don't think Strange is actually liked by anyone in Alabama, and Sessions leaving is the reason why Moore is here in the first place (though I think Sessions will get some votes).

I do think Saban probably gets the most, though the one handicap for him is that no Auburn fan will vote for him; and whenever there's a poll of in-state college football fans, around 30% of them root for Auburn instead of Alabama.

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2 minutes ago, TrueMetis said:

Well I would hope that a country that included equality of religions in their constitution would also find this offensive. But then many American's seem to only care about the part that talks about guns.

 

Also sky news? Liberal? :lmao:

Yeah, it's amazing how the party that fellates the constitution and the Founders of the country continually argue against everything they stood for and created.

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Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Modern "conservatives" advocate making the US a "Christian nation" and people of other religions shouldn't be allowed to hold office, that the press is the enemy of the people and should have their ability to report the news curtailed, that people protesting the government should be charged as racketeers and have their assets seized by the government, etc.

All of this should be offensive. But conservatives only cry foul over the First Amendment when someone tries to censure a literal Nazi advocating genocide from speaking. Says a lot about Republican leadership and their priorities right now.

As for Sky, as far as FNR is concerned, it comes from Europe so of course it's liberal. What, do you expect him to actually learn about different people and places instead of falling back on easy stereotypes?

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45 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

To many religious people the very idea of such a worldview invokes the label of "extremist".  Any time someone feels justified to force their faith upon another I view that position as "extremist" and I'm a regular church goer, a tonsured reader in the Orthodox Church in America.

Recall our conversation from a few weeks ago? FNR is proving my point.

1 hour ago, mormont said:

I think the problem is FN is struck by the idea that these positions are regarded as extreme, because he doesn't realise that they are in fact regarded as extreme. 

The best example is the idea that all or most Christians regard other faiths as 'false', inherently. That doesn't seem controversial to him, because most Christians he knows agree with it. But in Europe, at least, many Christians believe that Islam shares some important truths with their faith, and believe the same for Judaism, for that matter. I doubt that FN would find the latter idea as absurd as the former, but he probably knows more people who'd subscribe to that view.

I try to avoid personal attacks, but FNR tends to take extreme positions and then acts shocked when people disagree. Remember, this is the guy that needs to carry a gun with him at all times because, and I quote (paraphrasing), “Someone might punch him in the face, and that’s scary, and it could kill him, so he needs it for equalizing force” and “We can’t limit the number of guns he owns because society might break down and a roaming horde of barbarians might attack his family.”

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Just now, Tywin et al. said:

Recall our conversation from a few weeks ago? FNR is proving my point.

I try to avoid personal attacks, but FNR tends to take extreme positions and then acts shocked when people disagree. Remember, this is the guy that needs to carry a gun with him at all times because, and I quote (paraphrasing), “Someone might punch him in the face, and that’s scary, and it could kill him, so he needs it for equalizing force” and “We can’t limit the number of guns he owns because society might break down and a roaming horde of barbarians might attack his family.”

And any action by the government that he disagrees with is tyranny, but installing and backing foreign dictators all around the world was also fine with him. Standard "conservative libertarian" hypocrisy. "My rights/the things I believe are sacred, but someone else's rights and beliefs being trampled on and destroyed just make me shrug as long as it doesn't effect me or people like me."

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8 minutes ago, Paladin of Ice said:

Yeah, it's amazing how the party that fellates the constitution and the Founders of the country continually argue against everything they stood for and created.

Modern "conservatives" advocate making the US a "Christian nation" and people of other religions shouldn't be allowed to hold office, that the press is the enemy of the people and should have their ability to report the news curtailed, that people protesting the government should be charged as racketeers and have their assets seized by the government, etc.

All of this should be offensive. But conservatives only cry foul over the First Amendment when someone tries to censure a literal Nazi advocating genocide from speaking. Says a lot about Republican leadership and their priorities right now.

As for Sky, as far as FNR is concerned, it comes from Europe so of course it's liberal. What, do you expect him to actually learn about different people and places instead of falling back on easy stereotypes?

They don't want the US as it exists.  They want Gilead of the Handmaid's Tale.

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11 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Recall our conversation from a few weeks ago? FNR is proving my point.

I try to avoid personal attacks, but FNR tends to take extreme positions and then acts shocked when people disagree. Remember, this is the guy that needs to carry a gun with him at all times because, and I quote (paraphrasing), “Someone might punch him in the face, and that’s scary, and it could kill him, so he needs it for equalizing force” and “We can’t limit the number of guns he owns because society might break down and a roaming horde of barbarians might attack his family.”

The above example is one you have probably trotted out a half a dozen times or more over the past year. So an idle conversation, the details of which  were not significant enough for me to even remember clearly, seems to have had a major impact on your board experience. Time to let it go. And just accept that there are different views  to yours out there.

And as for me being shocked. Do you think I HAVE to participate in this part of the forum? There are scores  of conservative forums to engage in. I come here to  experience and marvel at the immensity of the gulf between the two sides. I think I have a better understanding of the "other" side than your supposedly open minded bunch has.

Where's the fun in just getting constant affirmation of your views in an echo chamber? Which is basically what happens among the regulars here 90% of the time.

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23 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

I think I have a better understanding of the "other" side than your supposedly open minded bunch has.

Dude, I'm well aware of about every knuckle head conservative argument there is out there. Been hearing it for years.

I'm sure others here have been exposed to the same clown ball arguments.

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Roy Moore is not who the left thinks that he is. He has a Jewish lawyer (can't be an anti-Semite) and this one time at band camp, I mean in Vietnam, he was brought to a brothel with child prostitutes and left immediately.

https://theslot.jezebel.com/roy-moores-wife-one-of-our-attorneys-is-a-jew-1821206121

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/12/roy-moore-wife-not-anti-semitic-lawyer-jewish.html

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In a sane world, the Orange Monster would have to answer for his bs.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/12/12/16761906/congress-investigate-trump-harassment

Quote

As the #MeToo moment sweeps through American life, deposing prominent journalists, film stars, Hollywood producers, celebrity chefs, and members of Congress, it’s getting harder to look away from the elephant in the Oval Office: Donald Trump.

 

Yep, it sure does look like the Republican Party is full of it, yet again. Not that is shocking.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/12/11/16763856/voxcare-medicaid-work-requirements

Quote

We just got some of our strongest evidence yet that there is no pandemic of Medicaid enrollees who are avoiding work to stay on the program's rolls, even as the Trump administration prepares to institute work requirements in some states that have requested them.

The research, conducted by the University of Michigan and published on Monday in JAMA, looks at the work status of people who enrolled in Medicaid after Michigan expanded the program under Obamacare. It stands out for being based on interviews with Medicaid enrollees, rather than on administrative data or other information.

 

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