Worst theory you've ever heard

[Blackwater Revenant]

1 minute ago, Tygett Lannister said:

She kills people out of anger, hate and vengeance not in self-defense. She joined best assassins guild because she wants to kill people she hates and in the process of training she kills random people, she didn't join them because she had 10 children to feed and the money was good.

What? Are you getting this from the abomination?

...cause this is the book side of the forum, and what you claim, is certainly not supported by the books.

[Faera]

28 minutes ago, Blackwater Revenant said:

Huh, easiest answered question I've seen asked on this forum. No, she absolutely is not.

Arguing otherwise would demonstrate a poor understanding of not only the definition of a pshyco/sociopath, but also of the actual character that GRRM has written.

You are right. At least, it's not how I understand the character. She has been psychologically affected by her experiences, perhaps we could argue she has been irreparably damaged, but I've seen nothing to suggest she is a psychopath at all. Claiming she is just is a misuse of the word "psychopath".

I would be more willing to say characters like... Petyr Baelish, Euron Greyjoy, Tywin Lannister, Cersei Lannister, Joffrey Baratheon, Roose Bolton and or Ramsay Bolton display more or all of the recognisable attributes that fall under the "dark triad" of what we would call psychopathic tendencies. 

[Ser Leftwich]

48 minutes ago, YOVMO said:

I will discount Jorah because he was an anointed knight which means he had learned to joust, but I can't argue about Brandon and Jory. I never picture Northerner's jousting though.

 

 

Jorah was knighted for bravery/first through the breach at the Siege of Pyke. It had nothing to do with any training in riding/jousting. The two are unrelated.

[the trees have eyes]

28 minutes ago, Blackwater Revenant said:

What? Are you getting this from the abomination?

...cause this is the book side of the forum, and what you claim, is certainly not supported by the books.

She is required to kill the shipbroker in Braavos without any understanding of why.  It's analagous to Jason Bourne completing his training by shooting dead a man because he is told to.  As to psycoapth: no, but it's a dark path she's walking.  She murdered Dareon because she was angry that he was deserting from the NW and she killed the Bolton guard at Harrenhall out of expediency (she cut his throat).  In all cases without any subsequent feelings of remorse.

[Tygett Lannister]

51 minutes ago, Blackwater Revenant said:

What? Are you getting this from the abomination?

...cause this is the book side of the forum, and what you claim, is certainly not supported by the books.

It is supported by books everything I stated.

[Faera]

1 hour ago, Tygett Lannister said:

She kills people out of anger, hate and vengeance not in self-defense. She joined best assassins guild because she wants to kill people she hates and in the process of training she kills random people, she didn't join them because she had 10 children to feed and the money was good.

Doesn't necessarily make her a psychopath. Not in the literal sense I (and I'm presuming @Blackwater Revenant ?) are thinking.

[Blackwater Revenant]

6 hours ago, the trees have eyes said:

She is required to kill the shipbroker in Braavos without any understanding of why. 

Yes, however she does question the why of it, and discovers that he is a dishonest fraud, who is taking advantage of, and cheating grieving widows of their due compensation. And as you point out, she is required to perform this task, it's not something she desires to do.

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As to psycoapth: no, but it's a dark path she's walking.

Agreed, you'll get no argument from me there.

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She murdered Dareon because she was angry that he was deserting from the NW

Yes, something, due to her age and naivety, she believed was a right and justifiable course of action. Desertion of the Watch is a crime punishable by death, a sentence that her own honorable, and far from psychotic/sociopathic father has carried out many a time.

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and she killed the Bolton guard at Harrenhall out of expediency (she cut his throat).  In all cases without any subsequent feelings of remorse.

Sure, expediency, and I would also argue necessity.

While it's true that we don't see her show any feelings of remorse in these cases, I would ask if that is because she is not capable of feeling remorse, or because she does not understand the gravity of the acts she has committed?

@Tygett Lannister

Arya has shown more empathy and good will towards others, than arguably any other character in the series. These are hardly characteristics of a psychotic sociopath. Is it possible that her situation and circumstances could lead her down a dark and unreturnable path? Sure, but she is not there as of the end of the published novels, and it's unfair and inaccurate to label her as that of which you have, IMHO.

 

[Megorova]

5 hours ago, YOVMO said:

Here you are incorrect. This is like saying it isn't hard to hit a homerun against a major league pitcher, you just have to make solid contact with the ball in the right position with the right part of the bat. It may seem like a simple thing in physics, but I assure you that charging down a knight with lance in hand and landing a shot good enough to unseat him is not only not easy, but for someone with no training nearly impossible.

Most likely Lyanna was training in secret from her father, both to wield a sword and to hit a target in jousting.

Watch this video

It's a scene from A Knight's Tale movie, where MC is training for tournament.

In a Hedge Knight story, MC Duncan was a squire and (if I remember correctly) his master never trained him to joust. But when Dunk's master died, he did the same thing as MC from a movie above - he went to participate in tournament, and lied to everyone that he is a knight (even though he was just a squire). During his first ever joust, Dunk was unhorsed, but during second he managed to unhorse Prince Aerion.

Also in 281 Lyanna was 14 or 15 years old, not 12.

[Philokles]

Only Arya who is expected to feel guilty about having to kill a complicit guard to escape a concentration camp where she was shortly due to be mutilated.

[LiveFirstDieLater]

58 minutes ago, Megorova said:

Most likely Lyanna was training in secret from her father, both to wield a sword and to hit a target in jousting.

Watch this video

It's a scene from A Knight's Tale movie, where MC is training for tournament.

In a Hedge Knight story, MC Duncan was a squire and (if I remember correctly) his master never trained him to joust. But when Dunk's master died, he did the same thing as MC from a movie above - he went to participate in tournament, and lied to everyone that he is a knight (even though he was just a squire). During his first even joust, Dunk was unhorsed, but during second he managed to unhorse Prince Aerion.

Also in 281 Lyanna was 14 or 15 years old, not 12.

This is high on my list of chicken soup movies... love it

one of my favorite parts:

Prince Edward to our Hedge Knight in the stocks...

What a pair we make, huh? Both trying to hide who we are, both unable to do so. Your men love you. If I knew nothing else about you, that would be enough. But you also tilt when you should withdraw... and that is knightly, too.

(PS. I swear Jaime Lannister in the show stole Edward's Coat...)

[Livesundersink]

13 hours ago, YOVMO said:

I will discount Jorah because he was an anointed knight which means he had learned to joust

Yes and no, Yes Ser Jorah is a knight, but no because he did not earn his knighthood by way of squiring, but was knighted by Robert for his deeds on the Iron Islands. Also we are told anyone can be knighted regardless of their skill with a sword and lance, case in point Ser Davos, he is a knight yet he cannot fight because of his missing fingers courtesy of Stannis.

[Livesundersink]

10 hours ago, Megorova said:

Most likely Lyanna was training in secret from her father, both to wield a sword and to hit a target in jousting.

We see in Bran's visions a young boy and girl fighting with sticks in the godswood at Winterfell, it is entirely possible this was Benjen and Lyanna.

Also i find it tragically ironic that Mark Addy should star in that movie as well as something else.........

[the trees have eyes]

16 hours ago, Horse of Kent said:

Only Arya who is expected to feel guilty about having to kill a complicit guard to escape a concentration camp where she was shortly due to be mutilated.

She made up the story that everyone was going to have one foot cut off so Gendry would help her.  The guard was simply a soldier on duty at a gate out of the castle like any ordinary soldier you could take from any of Robb's bannermen.  It's the Goat and the mummers who do the maiming after all not the Boltons so the guard is not complicit in anything at all.

Do I understand why she did this?  Yes.  Do I exhonerate her and blacken her poor victim, granting him the status of an SS Concentration Camp guard to avoid having to look at the killing for what it is?  No, I am still appalled by it. 

 

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

On 12/15/2017 at 6:06 AM, Houseofthedirewolves said:

George cleared this up in an interview that was posted here.  http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/140333-dinner-with-grrm-what-should-i-ask/&page=4

My con friend asked about the Jon/Arya relationship again and brought her (impressive) Game book that had all of her references marked out with little flags. She brought up the Ygritte connections to Arya that Jon saw in her. George did not directly answer yes or no if there would be anything romantic between the two. 

He didn't answer yes or no - well, at least we have a definite answer from the author himself, and we can put the issue to rest.  

[Philokles]

5 hours ago, the trees have eyes said:

She made up the story that everyone was going to have one foot cut off so Gendry would help her.  The guard was simply a soldier on duty at a gate out of the castle like any ordinary soldier you could take from any of Robb's bannermen.  It's the Goat and the mummers who do the maiming after all not the Boltons so the guard is not complicit in anything at all.

Do I understand why she did this?  Yes.  Do I exhonerate her and blacken her poor victim, granting him the status of an SS Concentration Camp guard to avoid having to look at the killing for what it is?  No, I am still appalled by it. 

No, she repeated a very credible rumour. Hoat is a psychopath with a penchant for amputation and any rational human wouldn't be waiting around to see if they were to be the next victim if they had a way out. Sure, the guard was probably not evil like Vargo and his men, but (like most people would) he took the easy path by tolerating that evil as long as it did not negatively effect him. But really, his morality or lack thereof is beside the point - blaming any victim of a crime against humanity for not just sitting there and taking it is just vile.

[Universal Sword Donor]

On 12/15/2017 at 11:37 AM, Ser Leftwich said:

Jorah was knighted for bravery/first through the breach at the Siege of Pyke. It had nothing to do with any training in riding/jousting. The two are unrelated.

He was second through the breach, and then he subsequently won the tourney at lannisport. You are correct re the knighting though

[Orphalesion]

But there's ever so many...

Daenerys is the daughter of Ned/Ashara/Lyanna, anybody except her actual parents
Jon is the son of Ashara/Ned/Mance anybody but his actual parents (Lyanna and Rhaegar)
All the clickbait Preston Jacobs shits out of his mouth.
Jon and Meera Reed are twins because both are portrayed by actors with curly hair on the show.
Jon has a twin in general.
Ashara is Septa Lemore is Quaithe is the Polka Dotted Grace with Pink Stripes
LML's imaginary space opera subplot that reduces the duel of Oberyn and the Mountain to artificial allegory for a non-existant comet and a non-existant blackhole moon (or w/e)
Robb being Brandon's son
Robb and Sansa being Edmure's children (Because they is not gud enuff to be teh Starkz blahblahblah)
Wherever Whore's Go actually having any meaning that will be resolved
Bloodraven warging everyone and everything
Melissandre being the daughter of Bloodraven and/or Quaithe and/or that Seastar woman (forgot her first name, because who cares?)
Dinosaurs come from an ancient Jurassic Park
Euron is Daario is Syrio Forel is Mance is Rhaegar.
All the theories that everything in the world has to have a secret meaning and must be an allegory to some imaginary mystery that is only a mystery in the minds of fans who are frustrated that WoW isn't around yet.
"Great Northern Stark Aryan Master Race holds the Others at Bay" and "There must always be a Stark blahblahblah" having any meaning beyond "SOmeone must hold down the fort"
"The Others come because nasty evil Catelyn had Ned cosnstruct a Sept to her dirty southerner mongrel Gods and defiled Winterfell's perfect purepure pureness" 
The Seven Kingdoms would be better off apart (nevermind the problems that would cause)
Sweetrobin is Littlefinger's son.
Stannis will be king/is a "principal character" (Drop that Stannis body pillow and get out of that river in Egypt, fanboys!)
That everything mentioned in the World Book will be "important" to the story.
Arya becoming queen (I ain't the father of no queens having deep and important meaningz and is totally not a perfectly ordinary means of saying a thing like that blahblahblah)
Tyrion becoming king
Sansa becoming queen

That's all I can think of right now. I don't include theories where the creator celarly just intends them to be funny or that are so ridiculous that they are fun, just the ones that are stupid, boring and where the creator and their followers take them waaaaaaay too seriously.

[Faera]

49 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

All the theories that everything in the world has to have a secret meaning and must be an allegory to some imaginary mystery that is only a mystery in the minds of fans who are frustrated that WoW isn't around yet.

Wow, you list of theories really makes me realise how crazy people can get when they don't have WoW to read. 

A lot of it can really be boiled down to "Everyday is Opposite Day in GRRM's World" doesn't it?

40 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

Jon has a twin in general.

This one almost seems like an excuse to make the less popular ToJ baby theorists happy. Like, why can Jon and Dany BOTH be this baby in the Tower... never mind that it is illogical that Ned would separate the twins or send one of them to Essos to get chased from one free city to the next before being sold off by her crazed brother-uncle?

48 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

Ashara is Septa Lemore is Quaithe is the Polka Dotted Grace with Pink Stripes

48 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

Euron is Daario is Syrio Forel is Mance is Rhaegar.

You forgot Arthur Dayne! But yeah, it seems everyone has to be someone else. No one is allowed to just be their own character. Everyone is literally everyone else.

[Tygett Lannister]

1 hour ago, Orphalesion said:

The Seven Kingdoms would be better off apart (nevermind the problems that would cause)

Never mind that the Seven Kingdoms can't realistically be controlled by one king without him being the only owner of Dragons.

The whole series are proof of that. Why wasn't Seven Kingdoms formed in period (8000 years) before the Aegon's conquest?

Arguing Seven Kingdoms witnessed less violence and war under Targareyen rule then when they were divided is wrong.

Most realistic ending to series is collapse of Seven Kingdoms to smaller states unless Dany comes and is the lady with nukes who rules the world.

[Orphalesion]

19 minutes ago, Tygett Lannister said:

Never mind that the Seven Kingdoms can't realistically be controlled by one king without him being the only owner of Dragons.

Nothing about the scales in the series is in any way "realistic" and has never been so, meaning that isn't even an argument. The North by itself doesn't even come close to being "realistic" as a unified political body.

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The whole series are proof of that. Why wasn't Seven Kingdoms formed in period (8000 years) before the Aegon's conquest?

Because no single faction was strong and smart enough to do so? Also sometimes it needs a smart, outside mind to solve a problem.

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Arguing Seven Kingdoms witnessed less violence and war under Targareyen rule then when they were divided is wrong.

Uh no it isn't. I'm tried of rattling that down again and again. Riverlands, Crownlands, Dornish Marches, Ironborn etc. etc. etc. For a medieval, feudal Kingdom the Seven Kingdoms are pretty damn stable and peaceful, even under the Baratheons before the War of Five Kings started.