Lost Melnibonean

Jon Snow

27 posts in this topic

5 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

Don't suppose you did...  it's just that I'm working through the possibilities, and I don't think young Robert appeared any more likely to kill babies than Ned. It was, after all, Tywin who killed the infant Targs - everyone was horrified, everyone felt the political necessity to let the crime pass. Robert is not the monster here.

So most likely Lyanna was afraid of the Kingsguard. They weren't going to hurt the baby, but they weren't going to let her take it away either. It sort of explains why they felt it necessary to fight Ned, because he would have obstructed their orders as well.

So, you think Eddard fought the Kingsguard after he promised Lyanna?

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On 18/12/2017 at 10:00 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:

As stated at the end of the OP,  we still have to reconcile the discrepancy between Arya horseface and her aunt of surpassing loveliness. The key is found in Arya II, Game 22, when Eddard tells his youngest daughter that she resembles Lyanna, and that means that Jon does too...

I don't think it can be reconciled really. At best we could say Lyanna was not a classic beauty, but she had the charm and spirit that made her the most beautiful in the eyes of her admirers. This might explain why Robert said the statue didn't match her beauty - the animation was gone.

Anyway, being called horseface is a tremendous compliment from the author. Horses stand for spirit, drive, courage - something in that ballpark. Nothing damned Sansa so completely as taking a dislike to horses.

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16 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

So, you think Eddard fought the Kingsguard after he promised Lyanna?

No, no :P. Ned goes to the tower and finds out that Lyanna is inside with her baby. He demands that they both be released to his protection. The Kingsguard say no.

[ETA If the objection is that Lyanna would feel secure after the death of the three KG - I don't think she would. One, she's just learned that her baby is Rhaegar's heir (probably), and the likely focus of future Blackfyre-style rebellions. Two, the KG have demonstrated how fanatically loyal Targ supporters can be. And three, legally the child belongs to its father's family and Robert's not likely to overturn that - he won't want to see the child, and he's already let slip Dany and Viserys. Plenty for Lyanna to worry about.]

Edited by Springwatch

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On 21.12.2017 at 9:00 PM, Springwatch said:

I don't think it can be reconciled really. At best we could say Lyanna was not a classic beauty, but she had the charm and spirit that made her the most beautiful in the eyes of her admirers. This might explain why Robert said the statue didn't match her beauty - the animation was gone.

Anyway, being called horseface is a tremendous compliment from the author. Horses stand for spirit, drive, courage - something in that ballpark. Nothing damned Sansa so completely as taking a dislike to horses.

In last book it was said somewhere (don't remember by whom exactly) that Jon and Arya both have long faces. And Eddard also had long face. It's a genetic trait of First Men. GRRM based First Men on Celts, and Andals on Anglo-Saxons. Celts had long skulls, and Anglo-Saxons more round. So similar looks of Eddark, Lyanna, Jon and Arya is caused by their First Men blood.

Also about GRRM and horses - he said that prior starting his work on Song, he didn't even knew what horses looked like.

Edited by Megorova

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The following is placed in the context of "the secret Jon Arryn had died for, but given the emphasis in the original and that this musing is by Eddard, it would appear to be applicable to the secret about Jon Snow and Eddard’s refusal to share it with his beloved Catelyn...

Quote

And when you have it, what then? Some secrets are safer kept hidden. Some secrets are too dangerous to share, even with those you love and trust. 

Eddard VIII, Game 33

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12 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

The following is placed in the context of "the secret Jon Arryn had died for, but given the emphasis in the original and that this musing is by Eddard, it would appear to be applicable to the secret about Jon Snow and Eddard’s refusal to share it with his beloved Catelyn...

Eddard VIII, Game 33

That's a great quote. It does point to Ned having his own secrets.

Edited by Lady Dacey

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Here's that guilt again...

Quote

Ned let him prattle on. After a time, he quieted and they rode in silence. The streets of King's Landing were dark and deserted. The rain had driven everyone under their roofs. It beat down on Ned's head, warm as blood and relentless as old guilts. Fat drops of water ran down his face.

Eddard IX, Game 35

Those old guilts introduce thE subject of the next paragraph...

Quote

"Robert will never keep to one bed," Lyanna had told him at Winterfell, on the night long ago when their father had promised her hand to the young Lord of Storm's End. "I hear he has gotten a child on some girl in the Vale." Ned had held the babe in his arms; he could scarcely deny her, nor would he lie to his sister, but he had assured her that what Robert did before their betrothal was of no matter, that he was a good man and true who would love her with all his heart. Lyanna had only smiled. "Love is sweet, dearest Ned, but it cannot change a man's nature."

Eddard IX, Game 35

Does Eddard feel guilty for having some hand in arranging his dear sister's betrothal to his best friend? 

Or did his old guilts only involve the promise to lie?

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Robert would swear undying love and forget them before evenfall, but Ned Stark kept his vows. He thought of the promises he'd made Lyanna as she lay dying, and the price he'd paid to keep them.

Eddard IX, Game 35

Edited by Lost Melnibonean

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