Jump to content

Madness/Greatness: Did Jaehaerys II have his father Aegon V in mind?


Bael's Bastard

Recommended Posts

We hear from Barristan Selmy: "King Jaehaerys once told me that madness and greatness are two sides of the same coin. Every time a new Targaryen is born, he said, the gods toss the coin in the air and the world holds its breath to see how it will land."

What might have been the context in which King Jaehaerys II, who only ruled from 259 AC to 261 AC, made this statement to Barristan?

Jaehaerys didn't live to see his son Aerys descend into madness, though I suppose it is possible that Aerys could have done something to spark the comment or discussion in which it occurred.

Jaehaerys was close to ten when his uncle Aerion drank wildfire, so old enough to have been aware of and impacted by it, but even if he had Aerion in mind, what happened or was being discussed with Barristan almost thirty years later that caused him to make this statement?

Is it possible that this comment was made in a discussion about his father Aegon V, or that he had his father in mind (among others) when he made this comment?

Aegon V had the potential to be a great king, and truly had more concern for the well being of the small folk than almost any Targaryen king that came before him. Yet he also came to dream of dragons as his troubled brothers Daeron and Aerion had, and is said to have become consumed with acquiring dragons in his last years, culminating in the disaster at Summerhall which appears to have involved pyromancers and wildfire in an attempt to hatch dragons, to be used to make and enforce reforms.

Now, I am not suggesting that I think Aegon V went mad, but he and his reign seem to embody the whole two sides of the same coin thing, and Jaehaerys would have been making this comment within three or so years of the tragedy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd also assume that the context of this whole thing was little Rhaegar. Barristan may have talked with Jaehaerys about the boy once, resulting in Jaehaerys making his remark.

While Jaehaerys seems to have been a smart guy, I doubt he thought his father may have gone mad or eccentric. Jaehaerys himself apparently was a mad nut, believing in prophecy, and using it as pretext to force his two children to marry each other.

And considering that Jaehaerys himself was apparently also a very traditional Targaryen - being literally obsessed with incest - one also imagines he understood his father's desire to bring the dragons back and may have even shared it. Although there may be a chance that he thought his way - looking for/creating the promised prince - was the better way.

How both Aegon V and Jaehaerys II saw young Prince Aerys is a very interesting question. One assumes they realized that he wasn't the sharpest knife in the box - nor the most promising Targaryen prince in history. But whatever the nature of his 'madness' was in his youth it must have been rather mild. Aerys is little more than an eccentric for the first half of his reign, and prior to Duskendale his madness wasn't causing any real problems for his family or the Realm. Unlike Aerion, Daemon, Maegor, etc. Aerys wasn't cruel or sadistic by nature. He only started to walk down that path after Duskendale.

In that sense it would be rather odd if Aegon V or Jaehaerys II had any inclination what little Ary - or whatever they called the boy in his childhood - would turn into.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would agree that a connection to Rhaegar's recent birth is likely, in that IIRC no other "new Targaryen" was born between 259-262 AC.

But that still doesn't address the greatness and madness Jaehaerys mentions, and which examples he might have had in mind. He didn't live to witness the madness of Aerys, so what examples might he have had in mind? We are talking about a quote that had to have been made within a few years of the Summerhall tragedy, and could have occurred within weeks or months of the tragedy.

Jaehaerys may have loved and married his sister (which, the love part is not all that traditional), and believed the TPTWP prophecy applied to his children (as Rhaegar later did), but when this quote was made he had also just lost his father, brother, and who knows how much of his family in a wildfire plot to hatch dragons after a century, however unintentional the end result.

Even if he had been on board with the plot going into Summerhall, it is not inconceivable that the tragedy could have sobered him up, and caused him to reconsider the final acts of his father. Aegon might not have had the maliciousness that Aerys would later demonstrate, but Summerhall had to be one of the craziest things a Targaryen had been responsible for before Aerys did his thing.

Even Aerion only drank wildfire himself, and was in his cups when he did so. Aegon nearly wiped out his entire house with wildfire.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Bael's Bastard said:

But that still doesn't address the greatness and madness Jaehaerys mentions, and which examples he might have had in mind. He didn't live to witness the madness of Aerys, so what examples might he have had in mind? We are talking about a quote that had to have been made within a few years of the Summerhall tragedy, and could have occurred within weeks or months of the tragedy.

As a traditional Targaryen he could also have done some research on the history of his family, recognizing the stark differences between men like Jaehaerys I and Maegor the Cruel, the Unworthy and the Dragonknight, Baelor Breakspear and Prince Rhaegel, Aerys I and Maekar, Bittersteel and Bloodraven, Aegon V and Aerion Brightflame, Daemon Blackfyre and Maelys the Monstrous, etc.

The point of the comparison is that the Targaryens tend to be extreme. Either extremely great or extremely bad. There are very few average people among them. 

5 hours ago, Bael's Bastard said:

Jaehaerys may have loved and married his sister (which, the love part is not all that traditional), and believed the TPTWP prophecy applied to his children (as Rhaegar later did), but when this quote was made he had also just lost his father, brother, and who knows how much of his family in a wildfire plot to hatch dragons after a century, however unintentional the end result.

Sure, Jaehaerys might have been very distraught over the outcome of Summerhall, but he would have also been one of the few people who actually knew and understood what was going on there, presumably. Could be that he opposed his father's plan, could be that he supported it.

I'm pretty sure he was as much obsessed with dragons as Egg was, too. Else he would have never been as invested in the prophecy about the promised prince as he apparently was.

5 hours ago, Bael's Bastard said:

Even if he had been on board with the plot going into Summerhall, it is not inconceivable that the tragedy could have sobered him up, and caused him to reconsider the final acts of his father. Aegon might not have had the maliciousness that Aerys would later demonstrate, but Summerhall had to be one of the craziest things a Targaryen had been responsible for before Aerys did his thing.

If we assume that Egg was, in the end, responsible for the tragedy. In the sense that he brought in the wildfire he most likely was, but it is not all that unlikely that Jaehaerys II actually knew what went wrong. And it is far from clear that Egg was responsible for that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...