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How fast could little finger take the iron throne?


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While he solidifies his hold on the Vale, Half of the Tyrell’s forces and the Redwine fleet are off to fight off the Greyjoys from their land. While the other half is said to meet fAegon. Whatever the outcome, they’re will be further weaken. If the Vale does have 45k troops, then its game over. King little finger wins (for now). 

 

What the hell is littlefinger doing? 

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7 minutes ago, Freys Injustice said:

While he solidifies his hold on the Vale, Half of the Tyrell’s forces and the Redwine fleet are off to fight off the Greyjoys from their land. While the other half is said to meet fAegon. Whatever the outcome, they’re will be further weaken. If the Vale does have 45k troops, then its game over. King little finger wins (for now). 

 

What the hell is littlefinger doing? 

Wat? How can LF crown himself? He has no claim on the Throne, no respect of nobles. Yes you can say he will take it like Aegon did but really Vale, nor Riverlands is his. He might be regent of Vale but regent in most cases can't declare war unless it is defensive war. He is Lord Paramount of Trident but Riverlands are exhausted and two strongest houses are not likely to support him as they both want his title. In Vale he only has support of like half of the nobles and he is probably soon leaving Vale and his position, because when Sweetrobin (which could happen soon) dies Harry becomes Lord Paramount without regent.

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7 minutes ago, Tygett Lannister said:

Wat? How can LF crown himself? He has no claim on the Throne, no respect of nobles. Yes you can say he will take it like Aegon did but really Vale, nor Riverlands is his. He might be regent of Vale but regent in most cases can't declare war unless it is defensive war. He is Lord Paramount of Trident but Riverlands are exhausted and two strongest houses are not likely to support him as they both want his title. In Vale he only has support of like half of the nobles and he is probably soon leaving Vale and his position, because when Sweetrobin (which could happen soon) dies Harry becomes Lord Paramount without regent.

The 8 winners of the upcoming tourney will be awarded to sweetrobin’s own personal guard, pretty sure these winners will be from high houses, and be kept as hostages all but in name ensuring their cooperation to... ???

 

take king’s landing??

 

Will Littlefinger be left out in the cold while harry takes the vale? Hmm

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2 minutes ago, Freys Injustice said:

The 8 winners of the upcoming tourney will be awarded to sweetrobin’s own personal guard, pretty sure these winners will be from high houses, and be kept as hostages all but in name ensuring their cooperation to... ???

 

take king’s landing??

 

Will Littlefinger be left out in the cold while harry takes the vale? Hmm

Hostages guarded by whom? LF has like 2 old knights. Harry seems pretty much like Robert and he didn't listen to advisors.

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I have to agree with @Freys Injustice to a degree here.   Little Finger's power will come much further down the line as a result of his wealth in the control of food and resources.  It's possible he could buy some support if he takes a stab at the IT, but it's certain the Reach, despite supporting the Crownlands, has more food and resources than the Vale.  All our spit balling regarding the influence of Little Finger's power fails to take into consideration his goal of controlling resources importing from Gull Town north and perhaps south to the Riverlands.   It's doubtful he would be able to amass enough grain to feed the 7 kingdoms with winter already upon Westeros.   The truth is, no one likes Little Finger other than his minions, whose support he's had to buy.  He's essentially powerless to declare edicts in the Vale.  His sad seat of power is in the well worded exhausted Riverlands. 

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You make a valid point the Vale could take KL quickly but what would be the point?

Riverlands already fucked and a drain on the 7k.

Iron Isles out of the Vales reach and raidng the west coast.

North a mess with 2 armies already fighting it out.

Dragonston deserted and of little value to the fleetless Vale.

Reach and West you have declared war on so not in your power.

Stormlands under invasion.

Dorne at full strenght and too far away.

So why take KL at all? Better to let the 3 southern kings kill each other conquer the victor and claim the entire 7k or what's left of it.

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Littlefinger wanting the Iron Throne is a pretty show-exclusive concept. He want's power yes, but the throne is entirely too risky of a position. There are many competitors vying for the position who would gladly kill for the crown, the Targaryens, Baratheons, Lannisters, and Blackfyres all could rally enough support over Petyr and just kill him. Plus there are very few High Lords who would sit by and let him call himself their liege considering his origins. He's pretty much hit the ceiling of status that he can realistically attain IMO, and even then it's only temporary. 

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16 hours ago, ChuckPunch said:

[Littlefinger] want's power yes, but the throne is entirely too risky of a position.

I generally agree. Littlefinger seems more like Tom Riddle, Jr in that he wants power - but not visibility. Most of what he has done he's tried to keep a secret. Look how long it took before the fact that Baelish, through his manipulation of Lysa Arryn, had (1) killed Jon Arryn, (2) sent the Starks off on the wrong track of suspecting the Lannisters, and (3) implicated Tyrion Lannister in an attempted murder on their family. Here, fairly early in the "game", Littlefinger was just looking to break things up, burn stuff down. With enough death and disorder, the next phase was increasing his power (Lord of Harrenhal! Husband of the Lady of the Vale!) But Littlefinger is still exercising power mainly through "regency" over little Robert Arryn, with hopes of multiplying his influence dramatically via control of Sansa Stark (his "natural daughter").

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17 hours ago, ChuckPunch said:

Littlefinger wanting the Iron Throne is a pretty show-exclusive concept. He want's power yes, but the throne is entirely too risky of a position. There are many competitors vying for the position who would gladly kill for the crown, the Targaryens, Baratheons, Lannisters, and Blackfyres all could rally enough support over Petyr and just kill him. Plus there are very few High Lords who would sit by and let him call himself their liege considering his origins. He's pretty much hit the ceiling of status that he can realistically attain IMO, and even then it's only temporary. 

Thank you good sir. Well said.

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4 minutes ago, zandru said:

I generally agree. Littlefinger seems more like Tom Riddle, Jr in that he wants power - but not visibility. Most of what he has done he's tried to keep a secret. Look how long it took before the fact that Baelish, through his manipulation of Lysa Arryn, had (1) killed Jon Arryn, (2) sent the Starks off on the wrong track of suspecting the Lannisters, and (3) implicated Tyrion Lannister in an attempted murder on their family. Here, fairly early in the "game", Littlefinger was just looking to break things up, burn stuff down. With enough death and disorder, the next phase was increasing his power (Lord of Harrenhal! Husband of the Lady of the Vale!) But Littlefinger is still exercising power mainly through "regency" over little Robert Arryn, with hopes of multiplying his influence dramatically via control of Sansa Stark (his "natural daughter").

I think he wants to influence Harry via control of Sansa. I also believe he just enjoys power and has no bigger goal, if he has some goal it is destroy feudalism to create capitalism, where birth would mean nothing.

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Sorry, but Littlefinger and what army? His hold of Vale is shaky at best, barely resisting an open rebellion of six most powerful Vale houses. There's a reason he needs either Sweetrobin or Harry to unite Vale lords under; he knows noone would listen to his authority alone.

Menawhile, his other seat of power - Riverlands, is a mess, with many of its houses losing large amount of manpower and needing time to lick their wounds. Pretty much every non-Frey house is Stark/Tully loyalist, and even then, Jaime made sure to collect hostages from all of them. So, no chance in hell they'll march at KL at LF's command.

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Littlefinger has no interest in sitting the Iron Throne.  He is interested in power, yes, but not the responsibility that goes with it.  He is amassing  wealth and information so he can be the guy whispering in the ear of whoever is on the Iron Throne.

Unfortunately for Littlefinger, he has a protege who is learning his skills, but doesn't have his attitude towards other people (i.e., he doesn't care who gets hurt, she does).  When she discovers his plans and already existing skeletons in his closet, he's doomed.

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1 hour ago, Tygett Lannister said:

if [Littlefinger] has some goal it is destroy feudalism to create capitalism, where birth would mean nothing.

Sorry, no. We're not going to see the death of feudalism, birth of democracy, triumph of the free market, or libertarianism breaking out everywhere. And, you may not have noticed, but "birth" is a really big deal under capitalism, where the rich get increasingly richer, generation by generation.

It's dangerous for us to impose our own biases. Littlefinger is no altruist. He certainly resents the disadvantages he's had due to his own relatively low birth, but he's not concerned with anybody besides himself. As others have noted, he doesn't want to improve society - he wants to destroy it.

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18 hours ago, zandru said:

Sorry, no. We're not going to see the death of feudalism, birth of democracy, triumph of the free market, or libertarianism breaking out everywhere. And, you may not have noticed, but "birth" is a really big deal under capitalism, where the rich get increasingly richer, generation by generation.

It's dangerous for us to impose our own biases. Littlefinger is no altruist. He certainly resents the disadvantages he's had due to his own relatively low birth, but he's not concerned with anybody besides himself. As others have noted, he doesn't want to improve society - he wants to destroy it.

I am not some democracy, capitalism believer and of course birth is still really important. But I can see LF trying to change society where anyone could become rich. Which doesn't means he wants democracy, free trade (since free trade is inferior to protectionism unless you are the richest country), liberalism ect.

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1 hour ago, Tygett Lannister said:

But I can see LF trying to change society where anyone could become rich.

Well, I disagree with your assessment of Littlefinger's altruism. I still think he's in it for himself, in it for revenge on anyone considered his "better." Plus, I think Baelish would say that anybody wanting a leg up could just do it the way he did it, and quit whinging if you can't. Baelish is a classic libertarian - with added "vengeance" motivation.

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I do wonder where do these (this one is not the first) "FF wants to change societal order" theories come from. We're talking about a guy who hasn't shown a single shred of altruism through the series and did everything purely for his own benefit. Why would he care how the socitey is organized?

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17 hours ago, zandru said:

Well, I disagree with your assessment of Littlefinger's altruism. I still think he's in it for himself, in it for revenge on anyone considered his "better." Plus, I think Baelish would say that anybody wanting a leg up could just do it the way he did it, and quit whinging if you can't. Baelish is a classic libertarian - with added "vengeance" motivation.

I dont agree with it as well, I said this is his goal if he had one but I don't think he has one.

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