population and military strength

[Alex Gu]

what the population and military strength of the Riverlands and North before the war of five kings and after the war?

[Corvo the Crow]

Your questions on military strengths is answered here. You can join the discussion for a guess on population.

[Free Northman Reborn]

At a guess around 5 million people per kingdom before the war. In terms of losses, the North has lost around 20k soldiers. I'm not sure if they have lost any significant number of smallfolk. Other than some Ironborn raids, limited to a few castles and villages, what other losses have the North suffered? So I doubt the North lost as many smallfolk as they did soldiers.  So total Northern losses maybe 30,000 people.

So if they started at around 5 million, they now have around 4.97 million. So in terms of population decline, the impact is negligible.

The Riverlands by contrast lost a lot of smallfolk due to the scorched earth policies carried out there by Tywin's forces, and the ongoing war in that region. But even so, are we really talking numbers in the hundreds of thousands? Even if they lost 200.000-300,000, which sounds excessive, that still leaves them with maybe 4.7 million people or thereabouts.

So this idea that kingdoms were virtually depopulated by the recent war is not based on fact, in my view.

[Adam Yozza]

4 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

At a guess around 5 million people per kingdom before the war. In terms of losses, the North has lost around 20k soldiers. I'm not sure if they have lost any significant number of smallfolk. Other than some Ironborn raids, limited to a few castles and villages, what other losses have the North suffered? So I doubt the North lost as many smallfolk as they did soldiers.  So total Northern losses maybe 30,000 people.

So if they started at around 5 million, they now have around 4.97 million. So in terms of population decline, the impact is negligible.

The Riverlands by contrast lost a lot of smallfolk due to the scorched earth policies carried out there by Tywin's forces, and the ongoing war in that region. But even so, are we really talking numbers in the hundreds of thousands? Even if they lost 200.000-300,000, which sounds excessive, that still leaves them with maybe 4.7 million people or thereabouts.

So this idea that kingdoms were virtually depopulated by the recent war is not based on fact, in my view.

Unless the Kingdom populations are far lower than we estimate them to be. 5 million might sound a reasonable estimate for real world comparisons, but we are expressly told that all the men who could hold a spear in Last Heath and Karhold lands are gone. That would imply that the total male population of the Karhold lands numbers about 3000 before the war. Total population therefore being 6 or 7 thousand. Maybe 8, at a stretch. Unrealistic sure but so is a 700 foot wall.

[Free Northman Reborn]

19 hours ago, Adam Yozza said:

Unless the Kingdom populations are far lower than we estimate them to be. 5 million might sound a reasonable estimate for real world comparisons, but we are expressly told that all the men who could hold a spear in Last Heath and Karhold lands are gone. That would imply that the total male population of the Karhold lands numbers about 3000 before the war. Total population therefore being 6 or 7 thousand. Maybe 8, at a stretch. Unrealistic sure but so is a 700 foot wall.

So as a simple example of why that is not possible, consider this:

If the Northern lords raised every able bodied man in their lands - say a quarter of their entire population or some such ridiculous number - then surely that would apply to all the lords in Westeros. Meaning that the Crownlands - with say 500k people in King's Landing and at least as many in the surrounding lands to support the city - should be able to raise something in the order of 250,000 men. Which clearly they cannot. In fact, in the semi-canon RPG Martin endorsed numbers of around 10-15k for the Crownlands. And that extends well beyond King's Landing, up to Duskendale and such areas.

So pretty much 1% of the population.