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NFL 2017: 3000 Miles to Jaceland


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5 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

There have been reports for a while around Boston that Belichick was getting tired of Tom Brady's nutritionist and quacky lifestyle guru, Alex Guerrero. Now there's been a report in the Boston Globe that Guerrero has been banned from the sideline and team plane, and is no longer allowed to treat anyone besides Brady in his office by the Pats' locker room. There were a bunch of players who started working with Guerrero, including Gronk and Hightower. Suspicions here are that Guerrero was contradicting the team's training staff.

Things were a  little more out in the open this week because of Brady's deeply passive-aggressive response to questions about Belichick and Guerrero having friction. He basically said, "No comment, except I love and trust Alex and he's a big part of my success."

I'm linking to ESPN here because the Globe only lets you read a few articles per month for free.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21823429/new-england-patriots-strip-tom-brady-trainer-team-privileges

Tom Brady is the greatest QB in NFL history and also the Gwyneth Paltrow of the NFL.

I think this is the manifestation of the Brady-Belichick issue; namely that you have two Alphas out there and neither one likes to have to listen too much to the other.

I love Brady; greatest QB of all time, team-player and has deep, blue eyes you could stare into for ours and the chest of an ... wait was I typing this whole time? 

But Geurrero SCARES THE FUCK OUT OF ME!  He has a (*cough*) "degree" (*cough*) in traditional Chinese medicine from the now-defunct Samra University of Oriental Medicine in Los Angeles.  Every word in that sentence is fucking terrible.  In 2015, the Globe reported that Patriots medical and training staff had lodged complaints about Guerrero’s expanding role with the team. That would all be bad enough.  State regulators also stepped in when Guerrero treated Patriots players and other people at the TB12 Center, looking into allegations that he was practicing physical therapy without a license. He was cleared of wrongdoing in a 2014 letter instructing him to abide by state regulations while supervising licensed therapists at the TB12 Center.

BUT ... Before he partnered with Brady, Guerrero faced sanctions by federal regulators after falsely presenting himself as a medical doctor and deceptively promoting nutritional supplements, according to government records. In one case, Guerrero offered a “drink that protects your brain from the consequences of sports-related traumatic brain injury” that was endorsed by Brady. Guerrero later stopped selling it.  

He also claimed he could give you something that could cure cancer.  

The FTC sued Guerrero for making false claims about a nutritional supplement called Supreme Greens; investigators found that an informercial about Supreme Greens— in which Guerrero was consistently referred to as a doctor— falsely claimed Guerrero had conducted a 200-patient study, and had misled consumers into thinking that the product could cure ailments such as cancer, diabetes, and heart disease. As a result, the FTC fined Guerrero $65,000 and barred him from ever claiming that he was a doctor or from making unsubstantiated medical claims regarding any food, drug, or dietary supplement. The FTC also required Guerrero, for a period of five years starting in July 2005, to disclose the agency’s enforcement decree to any future business partners in ventures for which Guerrero was a majority stake holder.

Oh that sounds fine... 

And we want this guy to have access to our aging QB who is performing as well as he ever has?  I mean, I though his performance was from all that pliability shit and avocado ice-cream?  I mean... you don't think some asshole with a made-up degree from a defunct institution who has has been investigated by the FTC multiple times, falsely claimed he was a doctor, and fined tens of thousands of dollars MIGHT be into some shady shit?  Like PEDs?  

So, MAYBE its not such a terrible idea for the team to say "He can only treat Brady, he has to STFU about other things; can't be on the sidelines and cannot ride on the team plane."  That all seems completely reasonable.  Keep that fucker as far away form the other Pats as possible so that when the PED story FINALLY breaks we can say "Well, at least Gronk, Hightower and the punter were not on PEDs."  

So, Ugs Spokesman and cyborg Tom Brady is throwing a hissy fit.  I hear that he is asking the team to trade Jimmy G again. 

I hope this goes away, but for YEARS I have been hearing stories about how the B&B do not get along and this is a manifestation of that.  If so, fine- just keep it off the field and out of the facility, win another championship and then, to celebrate, fire Alex Geurrero into the sun.  

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2 hours ago, Rockroi said:

I think this is the manifestation of the Brady-Belichick issue; namely that you have two Alphas out there and neither one likes to have to listen too much to the other.

 

I’ve always heard that Brady has always acquiesced to Belichick's orders. Is that not the case?

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6 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

I’ve always heard that Brady has always acquiesced to Belichick's orders. Is that not the case?

Yes, to the best of my knowledge.  

But I also think its fraying.  I think Brady wants accommodations and Belichick won't do it.  They are both a little peeved at the other. Jimmy G may have been another manifestation.  

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2 hours ago, Rockroi said:

Yes, to the best of my knowledge.  

But I also think its fraying.  I think Brady wants accommodations and Belichick won't do it.  They are both a little peeved at the other. Jimmy G may have been another manifestation.  

Didn't Brady tell Guerrero not to work with Handsome Jimmy?

Anyway, there is a lot of grist here for New England fans who like to chew over conspiracy theories. People are calculating the timeline of Guerrero's curbing and Brady's drop-off in performance.

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9 hours ago, Rockroi said:

Yes, to the best of my knowledge.  

But I also think its fraying.  I think Brady wants accommodations and Belichick won't do it.  They are both a little peeved at the other. Jimmy G may have been another manifestation.  

My guess from afar is that Brady is sick of fans like me, who say he’s a top 5 all-time QB, but that Belichick should get the lion’s share of the credit. That’s how ego infects good partnerships.

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4 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

My guess from afar is that Brady is sick of fans like me, who say he’s a top 5 all-time QB, but that Belichick should get the lion’s share of the credit. That’s how ego infects good partnerships.

That could be it.  Frankly, I think these guys are relatively immune to that stuff. Then again, its human nature to want to know how you would do without the other.  

I think its more likely that they each are chaffing around the other.  They are the only consistent things about these past 17 seasons (outside of ownership).  Everything else is different.  If two people work together long enough friction develops and they disagree about a few things. 

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2 minutes ago, Rockroi said:

That could be it.  Frankly, I think these guys are relatively immune to that stuff. Then again, its human nature to want to know how you would do without the other.  

I think its more likely that they each are chaffing around the other.  They are the only consistent things about these past 17 seasons (outside of ownership).  Everything else is different.  If two people work together long enough friction develops and they disagree about a few things. 

I just want to fuck him and get it over with.

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18 minutes ago, Bronn Stone said:

Or hero taking one for the team.  All about your perspective.

Well we know one thing, eye contact will not be broken. I picture it being akin to the final scene in the meh movie The Ninth Gate (can't link because work comp).

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8 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

My guess from afar is that Brady is sick of fans like me, who say he’s a top 5 all-time QB, but that Belichick should get the lion’s share of the credit. That’s how ego infects good partnerships.

The Patriots are something like an 11 win team without Brady.  Cassells won 10 games and Brisette and Garapollo went 3 - 1.  And if Brady were the best of all time youd think he could beat someone over 7 super bowls by more than 1 score.

As far as his competitive nature goes, does anyone really think he's getting paid so much less than Matt Stafford?  Seems a lot more likely to me that B and B and Kraft are all just smugly doing an end around on the salary cap for the laat decade or so.

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3 hours ago, Rockroi said:

That could be it.  Frankly, I think these guys are relatively immune to that stuff. Then again, its human nature to want to know how you would do without the other.  

I doubt it, at least with Brady. Players always underplay their media consumption. It's unavoidable.

3 hours ago, Rockroi said:

I think its more likely that they each are chaffing around the other.  They are the only consistent things about these past 17 seasons (outside of ownership).  Everything else is different.  If two people work together long enough friction develops and they disagree about a few things. 

Very true. And it doesn't help that it appears that Belichick does not consult with Brady when he makes moves with key players.

7 minutes ago, mcbigski said:

The Patriots are something like an 11 win team without Brady.  Cassells won 10 games and Brisette and Garapollo went 3 - 1.  And if Brady were the best of all time youd think he could beat someone over 7 super bowls by more than 1 score.

The first sentence is a fair criticism, one which I've cited before as to why I think Belichick matters more than Brady. On top of that, I've seen a lot of analysts highlight that Belichick has created a perfect system for a guy like Brady, was someone like McCarthy has don't nothing to help Rodgers. And speaking of Rodgers, it's hard for me to say Brady is the GOAT when there is one, possibly two, players who played at the same time who I consider to be better than Brady, albeit less successful. And then there's the Marino question. Dan Marino would be absolutely insane if he played with today's rules.

The second sentence, on the other hand, is meaningless. It's just indicative of the randomness of football. 

9 minutes ago, mcbigski said:

As far as his competitive nature goes, does anyone really think he's getting paid so much less than Matt Stafford?  Seems a lot more likely to me that B and B and Kraft are all just smugly doing an end around on the salary cap for the laat decade or so.

Well his wife makes something like $60m a year, so his salary isn't that important. And everyone knows Kraft, like most owners, is going to take care of his best player after he retires. It's what organizations do. 

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55 minutes ago, mcbigski said:

The Patriots are something like an 11 win team without Brady.  Cassells won 10 games and Brisette and Garapollo went 3 - 1.  And if Brady were the best of all time youd think he could beat someone over 7 super bowls by more than 1 score.

As far as his competitive nature goes, does anyone really think he's getting paid so much less than Matt Stafford?  Seems a lot more likely to me that B and B and Kraft are all just smugly doing an end around on the salary cap for the laat decade or so.

They actually won 11 games with Cassell, but that's a reasonable assessment. I have to give you credit for the "Brady's not the greatest ever because he didn't win by enough in any of his five Super Bowl victories" take, that's a new one on me.

Yes, I've assumed for a while that the indulgence for Guerrero and the TB12 commercial footprint in Patriot Place is part of some kind of... understanding that makes up for the below-market deals Brady takes. It's certainly not as classy or straightforward as getting paid under the table like the Broncos did for Elway and Terrell Davis.

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I sure would have liked to have seen Dan Fouts play with an even halfway competent defense.  I honestly think Joe Montana's strongest attribute was 'being on Ronnie Lott's team'.

Ronnie is IMO the greatest player I've seen.  A safety feared as any linebacker who could also cover like a corner.  The only leader on defense I've seen who was his equal was Ray Lewis.

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33 minutes ago, Bronn Stone said:

Ronnie is IMO the greatest player I've seen.  A safety feared as any linebacker who could also cover like a corner.  The only leader on defense I've seen who was his equal was Ray Lewis.

This is the correct take, but it made my scrotum contract to see you compare Ronnie Lott to Lewis. Not to take anything away from what kind of a player Lewis was, I just find every aspect of his current existence to be disgusting.

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1 hour ago, DanteGabriel said:

This is the correct take, but it made my scrotum contract to see you compare Ronnie Lott to Lewis. Not to take anything away from what kind of a player Lewis was, I just find every aspect of his current existence to be disgusting.

I can't disagree with you about Lewis but it seems his peers had different standards. None of that appeared to have diminished him in their eyes. 

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2 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

They actually won 11 games with Cassell, but that's a reasonable assessment. I have to give you credit for the "Brady's not the greatest ever because he didn't win by enough in any of his five Super Bowl victories" take, that's a new one on me.

Yes, I've assumed for a while that the indulgence for Guerrero and the TB12 commercial footprint in Patriot Place is part of some kind of... understanding that makes up for the below-market deals Brady takes. It's certainly not as classy or straightforward as getting paid under the table like the Broncos did for Elway and Terrell Davis.

Thanks man if that's serious.  How many casual fans can name Montana's place kickers right?

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I think the 07 patriots that went undefeated had one of the top 3-4 hardest schedules in the league, and the 08 patriots that went 11-5 and missed the playoffs were in the top 10 for easiest schedule.  They (2007) had an average margin of victory of like 20 points per game, compared to 08 where it was like 7-8.

Brady is an odd guy, but he’ll end up in the top 2-3 of every individual statistical category, and will own virtually every record where wins are concerned; reg. and post season, percentage, Super Bowls.  And it won’t be very close.

It’s all subjective, but all the great QB’s have a knock on them; Marino never won a SB, Montana’s personal stats are pedestrian, Manning choked in the playoffs, Favre threw a ton of interceptions, Brady played for a great coach.

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14 hours ago, Bronn Stone said:

I sure would have liked to have seen Dan Fouts play with an even halfway competent defense.  I honestly think Joe Montana's strongest attribute was 'being on Ronnie Lott's team'.
 

Dan Fouts is just a name to me. He retired before I was born. I looked up his stats and I don’t know what to make of them, given how the passing game has changed in the modern game.

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