Bloodraven is not the Three Eye'd Crow.

[AlaskanSandman]

Bloodraven is not the Three Eye’d Crow. In here I will seek to separate the two and see if we can’t decide what is going on, if anything.

Crows and Ravens. What’s the difference, is there one. Our author can’t seem to tell the difference

 

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A group of ravens is called an "unkindness" or "conspiracy," which seems fitting, since ravens are traditionally considered creepy; in fact, seeing many of them in one place can induce Hitchcockian "The Birds"-like flashbacks in even the least ornithophobic (those people with a fear of birds).Feb 8, 2011

A group of crows is called a “Murder”

 

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A Dance with Dragons - Bran III

. A murder of ravens  erupted from the hillside, screaming their sharp cries, black wings beating above a white world

A Dance with Dragons - Bran III

Bran ate with Summer and his pack, as a wolf. As a raven he flew with the murder,

 

And yet he makes mention of the two together

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A Dance with Dragons - The Wayward Bride

"Go," the Reader had urged, as the captains were bearing her uncle Euron down Nagga's hill to don his driftwood crown.

"Said the raven to the crow. Come with me. I need you to raise the men of Harlaw." Back then, she'd meant to fight.

 

The Mystery Knight

"I suppose that means I'll have to take the throne, then. I would much rather be teaching you to fiddle."

"You're drunk." And the crow once called the raven black.

 

And also

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A Clash of Kings - Arya X

The heads never lacked for attendants. The carrion crows wheeled about the gatehouse in raucous unkindness and quarreled upon the ramparts over every eye, screaming and cawing at each other and taking to the air whenever a sentry passed along the battlements. Sometimes the maester's ravens joined the feast as well, flapping down from the rookery on wide black wings. When the ravens came the crows would scatter, only to return the moment the larger birds were gone.

 

A Clash of Kings - Tyrion XV

He found himself outside the city, walking through a world without color. Ravens soared through a grey sky on wide black wings, while carrion crows rose from their feasts in furious clouds wherever he set his steps

 

Raven is ASOIAF are only ever used or mentioned as messengers really.

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A Dance with Dragons - Bran III

"Do all the birds have singers in them?"

"All," Lord Brynden said. "It was the singers who taught the First Men to send messages by raven … but in those days, the birds would speak the words. The trees remember, but men forget, and so now they write the messages on parchment and tie them round the feet of birds who have never shared their skin."

 

So the Crow seem’s to be apart from the Old Gods, NOT a part of the Old God’s

What’s that Old Nan?

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A Game of Thrones - Bran IV

"It was just a lie," he said bitterly, remembering the crow from his dream. "I can't fly. I can't even run."

"Crows are all liars," Old Nan agreed, from the chair where she sat doing her needlework. "I know a story about a crow."

 

And what does Bran tell us of the difference?

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A Clash of Kings - Bran V

Jojen sat on Bran's bed. "Tell me what you dream."

He was scared, even then, but he had sworn to trust them, and a Stark of Winterfell keeps his sworn word. "There's different kinds," he said slowly. "There's the wolf dreams, those aren't so bad as the others. I run and hunt and kill squirrels. And there's dreams where the crow comes and tells me to fly. Sometimes the tree is in those dreams too, calling my name. That frightens me. But the worst dreams are when I fall."

 

So there is Wolf Dreams, Tree Dreams, and Three Eye’d Crow dreams. But Bran is listening to the Crow more than the Tree, he even fears the Tree calling his name. Yet, who is the Tree?

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A Dance with Dragons - Melisandre I

A face took shape within the hearth. Stannis? she thought, for just a moment … but no, these were not his features. A wooden face, corpse white. Was this the enemy? A thousand red eyes floated in the rising flames. He sees me. Beside him, a boy with a wolf's face threw back his head and howled.

 

The Tree is Bloodraven, not the Three Eyed crow who has now touched Bran and opened his third eye, without the help of the Tree’s.

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A Clash of Kings - Jon VII

A weirwood.

It seemed to sprout from solid rock, its pale roots twisting up from a myriad of fissures and hairline cracks. The tree was slender compared to other weirwoods he had seen, no more than a sapling, yet it was growing as he watched, its limbs thickening as they reached for the sky. Wary, he circled the smooth white trunk until he came to the face. Red eyes looked at him. Fierce eyes they were, yet glad to see him. The weirwood had his brother's face. Had his brother always had three eyes?

Not always, came the silent shout. Not before the crow.

 

Not before the Crow. Yet, Bran comes to Jon, as a Tree, just as Bloodraven comes to others. Yet, the Crow has been visiting others.

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A Clash of Kings - Bran IV

Jojen's eyes were the color of moss, and sometimes when he looked at you he seemed to be seeing something else. Like now. "I dreamed of a winged wolf bound to earth with grey stone chains," he said. "It was a green dream, so I knew it was true. A crow was trying to peck through the chains, but the stone was too hard and his beak could only chip at them."

"Did the crow have three eyes?"

Jojen nodded.

 

This Crow which speaks of flying, just like our friend Sweet Robin

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A Game of Thrones - Catelyn VII

"The bad little man," Lord Robert said, giggling. "Mother, can I make him fly? I want to see him fly."

 

And yet, our friend Bran seems to think at one point that he too can make others fly

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A Dance with Dragons - Bran III

I'd tell him I could fly, but he wouldn't believe, so I'd have to show him. I bet that he could learn to fly too, him and Arya and Sansa, even baby Rickon and Jon Snow. We could all be ravens and live in Maester Luwin's rookery.

 

So what’s going on here? Crows are all liars and the only crows we hear of are, crows on the battle field, the Three Eye’d Crow, and the Crows of the Night’s Watch. Are the Night’s Watch liars? Could the Night’s King be tied to all of this somehow? He who was a brother of the watch, just like Bloodraven?

Yet when Bloodraven is asked about being the Crow, he seems quite puzzled.

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A Dance with Dragons - Bran II

"Are you the three-eyed crow?" Bran heard himself say. A three-eyed crow should have three eyes. He has only one, and that one red. Bran could feel the eye staring at him, shining like a pool of blood in the torchlight. Where his other eye should have been, a thin white root grew from an empty socket, down his cheek, and into his neck.

"A … crow?" The pale lord's voice was dry. His lips moved slowly, as if they had forgotten how to form words. "Once, aye. Black of garb and black of blood." The clothes he wore were rotten and faded, spotted with moss and eaten through with worms, but once they had been black. "I have been many things, Bran. Now I am as you see me, and now you will understand why I could not come to you … except in dreams.

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A Game of Thrones - Jon VIII

Mormont snorted. "Because I sent him, why do you think? He's bringing the hand your Ghost tore off the end of Jafer Flowers's wrist. I have commanded him to take ship to King's Landing and lay it before this boy king. That should get young Joffrey's attention, I'd think … and Ser Alliser's a knight, highborn, anointed, with old friends at court, altogether harder to ignore than a glorified crow."

"Crow." Jon thought the raven sounded faintly indignant.

 

And as well as he should, since we know he is coming to Bran as a Tree, same as Bran now visit’s people. His bird doesn’t seem to like the reference either. 

Edit-forgot to include these two

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A Dance with Dragons - Melisandre I

A face took shape within the hearth. Stannis? she thought, for just a moment … but no, these were not his features. A wooden face, corpse white. Was this the enemy? A thousand red eyes floated in the rising flames. He sees me. Beside him, a boy with a wolf's face threw back his head and howled.

 

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A Clash of Kings - Jon VII

A weirwood.

It seemed to sprout from solid rock, its pale roots twisting up from a myriad of fissures and hairline cracks. The tree was slender compared to other weirwoods he had seen, no more than a sapling, yet it was growing as he watched, its limbs thickening as they reached for the sky. Wary, he circled the smooth white trunk until he came to the face. Red eyes looked at him. Fierce eyes they were, yet glad to see him. The weirwood had his brother's face. Had his brother always had three eyes?

Not always, came the silent shout. Not before the crow.

 

So what do we truly know? Well, not much really. Here is one thing we are told for instance.

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A Dance with Dragons - Bran III

"Only one man in a thousand is born a skinchanger," Lord Brynden said one day, after Bran had learned to fly, "and only one skinchanger in a thousand can be a greenseer."

 

"I thought the greenseers were the wizards of the children," Bran said. "The singers, I mean."

"In a sense. Those you call the children of the forest have eyes as golden as the sun, but once in a great while one is born amongst them with eyes as red as blood, or green as the moss on a tree in the heart of the forest. By these signs do the gods mark those they have chosen to receive the gift. The chosen ones are not robust, and their quick years upon the earth are few, for every song must have its balance. But once inside the wood they linger long indeed. A thousand eyes, a hundred skins, wisdom deep as the roots of ancient trees. Greenseers."

 

And yet Bran has neither Golden Eyes like the Children of the Forest, or Red Eyes, like Bloodraven or the Ghost of High heart. Neither does he have Moss Green Eyes, like Jojen. Yet Jojen seems to think he is not special.

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A Dance with Dragons - Bran III

"No, Bran." Now Meera sounded sad.

"It is given to a few to drink of that green fountain whilst still in mortal flesh, to hear the whisperings of the leaves and see as the trees see, as the gods see," said Jojen. "Most are not so blessed. The gods gave me only greendreams. My task was to get you here. My part in this is done."

 

Yet, he fits the description. While Bran is described as having Deep Blue Eyes. Something also said of the Others, Hugor’s Wife, and the Corpse Queen.

Yet, Jojen’s part isn’t done yet either.

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A Dance with Dragons - Bran III

Maesters will tell you that the weirwoods are sacred to the old gods. The singers believe they are the old gods. When singers die they become part of that godhood."

Bran's eyes widened. "They're going to kill me?"

"No," Meera said. "Jojen, you're scaring him."

"He is not the one who needs to be afraid."

 

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A Dance with Dragons - Bran III

. Jojen had even taken to climbing up to the cave's mouth when the day was bright. He would stand there for hours, looking out over the forest, wrapped in furs yet shivering all the same.

"He wants to go home," Meera told Bran. "He will not even try and fight his fate. He says the greendreams do not lie."

"He's being brave," said Bran. The only time a man can be brave is when he is afraid, his father had told him once, long ago, on the day they found the direwolf pups in the summer snows. He still remembered.

"He's being stupid," Meera said. "I'd hoped that when we found your three-eyed crow … now I wonder why we ever came."

For me, Bran thought. "His greendreams," he said.

"His greendreams." Meera's voice was bitter.

"Hodor," said Hodor.

Meera began to cry.

 

Which leads us right into “Jojen Paste?”

 

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A Dance with Dragons - Bran III

Something in his voice sent icy fingers running up Bran's back. "Time for what?"

"For the next step. For you to go beyond skinchanging and learn what it means to be a greenseer."

"The trees will teach him," said Leaf. She beckoned, and another of the singers padded forward, the white-haired one that Meera had named Snowylocks. She had a weirwood bowl in her hands, carved with a dozen faces, like the ones the heart trees wore. Inside was a white paste, thick and heavy, with dark red veins running through it. "You must eat of this," said Leaf. She handed Bran a wooden spoon.

Something about the look of it made Bran feel ill. The red veins were only weirwood sap, he supposed, but in the torchlight they looked remarkably like blood. He dipped the spoon into the paste, then hesitated. "Will this make me a greenseer?"

"Your blood makes you a greenseer," said Lord Brynden. "This will help awaken your gifts and wed you to the trees."

Which brings Bran a moment shared by Arya and Dany.

 

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A Dance with Dragons - Bran III

He ate.

It had a bitter taste, though not so bitter as acorn paste. The first spoonful was the hardest to get down. He almost retched it right back up. The second tasted better. The third was almost sweet. The rest he spooned up eagerly. Why had he thought that it was bitter? It tasted of honey, of new-fallen snow, of pepper and cinnamon and the last kiss his mother ever gave him. The empty bowl slipped from his fingers and clattered on the cavern floor. "I don't feel any different. What happens next?"

Leaf touched his hand. "The trees will teach you. The trees remember." He raised a hand, and the other singers began to move about the cavern, extinguishing the torches one by one. The darkness thickened and crept toward them.

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A Clash of Kings - Daenerys IV

"One flute will serve only to unstop your ears and dissolve the caul from off your eyes, so that you may hear and see the truths that will be laid before you."

Dany raised the glass to her lips. The first sip tasted like ink and spoiled meat, foul, but when she swallowed it seemed to come to life within her. She could feel tendrils spreading through her chest, like fingers of fire coiling around her heart, and on her tongue was a taste like honey and anise and cream, like mother's milk and Drogo's seed, like red meat and hot blood and molten gold. It was all the tastes she had ever known, and none of them . . . and then the glass was empty.

 

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A Feast for Crows - Arya I

Silent as a shadow, Arya moved between rows of long stone benches, her sword in hand. The floor was made of stone, her feet told her; not polished marble like the floor of the Great Sept of Baelor, but something rougher. She passed some women whispering together. The air was warm and heavy, so heavy that she yawned. She could smell the candles. The scent was unfamiliar, and she put it down to some queer incense, but as she got deeper into the temple, they seemed to smell of snow and pine needles and hot stew. Good smells, Arya told herself, and felt a little braver. Brave enough to slip Needle back into its sheath.

 

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A Feast for Crows - Arya II

If they are afraid, the candles soothe them. When you smell our candles burning, what does it make you think of, my child?"

Winterfell, she might have said. I smell snow and smoke and pine needles. I smell the stables. I smell Hodor laughing, and Jon and Robb battling in the yard, and Sansa singing about some stupid lady fair. I smell the crypts where the stone kings sit, I smell hot bread baking, I smell the godswood. I smell my wolf, I smell her fur, almost as if she were still beside me. "I don't smell anything," she said, to see what he would say.

"You lie," he said, "but you may keep your secrets if you wish, Arya of House Stark." He only called her that when she displeased him. "You know that you may leave this place. You are not one of us, not yet. You may go home anytime you wish."

 

So did Jojen Paste actually happen? Idk, you decide.

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A Dance with Dragons - Bran III

 

He had hoped that Meera and Jojen would be there, so he could tell them what he had seen, but their snug alcove in the rock was cold and empty. Hodor eased Bran down onto his bed, covered him with furs, and made a fire for them. A thousand eyes, a hundred skins, wisdom deep as the roots of ancient trees.

Watching the flames, Bran decided he would stay awake till Meera came back. Jojen would be unhappy, he knew, but Meera would be glad for him, He did not remember closing his eyes.

 

Now id like to back up here a moment and look at what we know again, and what happens in this scene in which Bran drinks the Weirwood Paste.

Ok, first he sees his father and tries to speak to him.

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A Dance with Dragons - Bran III

Bran's throat was very dry. He swallowed. "Winterfell. I was back in Winterfell. I saw my father. He's not dead, he's not, I saw him, he's back at Winterfell, he's still alive."

"No," said Leaf. "He is gone, boy. Do not seek to call him back from death."

"I saw him." Bran could feel rough wood pressing against one cheek. "He was cleaning Ice."

"You saw what you wished to see. Your heart yearns for your father and your home, so that is what you saw."

Quick Note. Why is there wood pressing into Bran's Cheek suddenly???? O.o

Bran then, is done with the Tree, and goes to lay down and wait for Meera and Jojen. Then something really interesting happens. He begins to time travel through vision,  without the Tree…

. He had hoped that Meera and Jojen would be there, so he could tell them what he had seen, but their snug alcove in the rock was cold and empty. Hodor eased Bran down onto his bed, covered him with furs, and made a fire for them. A thousand eyes, a hundred skins, wisdom deep as the roots of ancient trees.

Watching the flames, Bran decided he would stay awake till Meera came back. Jojen would be unhappy, he knew, but Meera would be glad for him, He did not remember closing his eyes.

 

… but then somehow he was back at Winterfell again, in the godswood looking down upon his father. Lord Eddard seemed much younger this time. His hairwas brown, with no hint of grey in it, his head bowed. "… let them grow up close as brothers, with only love between them," he prayed, "and let my lady wifefind it in her heart to forgive …"

"Father." Bran's voice was a whisper in the wind, a rustle in the leaves. "Father, it's me. It's Bran. Brandon."

 

Eddard Stark resumed his prayer. Bran felt his eyes fill up with tears. But were they his own tears, or the weirwood's? If I cry, will the tree begin to weep?

The rest of his father's words were drowned out by a sudden clatter of wood on wood. Eddard Stark dissolved, like mist in a morning sun. Now two children danced across the godswood, hooting at one another as they dueled with broken branches. The girl was the older and taller of the two. Arya! Bran thought eagerly, as he watched her leap up onto a rock and cut at the boy. But that couldn't be right. If the girl was Arya, the boy was Bran himself, and he had never worn his hair so long. And Arya never beat me playing swords, the way that girl is beating him. She slashed the boy across his thigh, so hard that his leg went out from under him and he fell into the pool and began to splash and shout. "You be quiet, stupid," the girl said, tossing her own branch aside. "It's just water. Do you want Old Nan to hear and run tell Father?" She knelt and pulled her brother from the pool, but before she got him out again, the two of them were gone.

After that the glimpses came faster and faster, till Bran was feeling lost and dizzy. He saw no more of his father, nor the girl who looked like Arya, but a woman heavy with child emerged naked and dripping from the black pool, knelt before the tree, and begged the old gods for a son who would avenge her. Then there came a brown-haired girl slender as a spear who stood on the tips of her toes to kiss the lips of a young knight as tall as Hodor. A dark-eyed youth, pale and fierce, sliced three branches off the weirwood and shaped them into arrows. The tree itself was shrinking, growing smaller with each vision, whilst the lesser trees dwindled into saplings and vanished, only to be replaced by other trees that would dwindle and vanish in their turn. And now the lords Bran glimpsed were tall and hard, stern men in fur and chain mail. Some wore faces he remembered from the statues in the crypts, but they were gone before he could put a name to them.

Wait, did Bran just time travel in visions without the Trees????? I should point out that Bran dozes off or goes into a trance while watching the flames, something that Melisandre does. Who even see's Bran in her fires. Could she be seeing him in this moment? Like they were a two way mirror of sorts? Almost like the Glass Candles and how they may possibly work? 

 

What just happened here??? Did Bran drink down seeds and now a Tree is gonna grow out of him? What happens if he leaves? Will he become a Heart Tree in some one’s God Wood with his own face?

And did the children just get Bran to commit an abomination???

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A Dance with Dragons - Prologue

Abomination. That had always been Haggon's favorite word. Abomination, abomination, abomination. To eat of human meat was abomination, to mate as wolf with wolf was abomination, and to seize the body of another man was the worst abomination of all.

 

An interesting thing about Bran and Sweet Robin is their resistance to Sweet Sleep. Most are aware of Sweet Robin and his resistance, yet Bran has it too.

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A Clash of Kings - Bran I

Osha scooped him up in her bony arms. She was very tall for a woman, and wiry strong. She bore him effortlessly to his bed.

"This will give you dreamless sleep," Maester Luwin said as he pulled the stopper from the jar. "Sweet, dreamless sleep."

"It will?" Bran said, wanting to believe.

"You should not fight so hard, boy. I see you talking to the heart tree. Might be the gods are trying to talk back."

"The gods?" he murmured, drowsy already. Osha's face grew blurry and grey. Sweet, dreamless sleep, Bran thought.

Yet when the darkness closed over him, he found himself in the godswood, moving silently beneath green-grey sentinels and gnarled oaks as old as time. I am walking, he thought, exulting. Part of him knew that it was only a dream, but even the dream of walking was better than the truth of his bedchamber, walls and ceiling and door.

So who is the Crow? What is going on here? Crows are all liars? Yet the only crows we have are carrion crows, the Night’s Watch Crows, and whoever the Three Eye’d Crow is.

 

Bloodraven is a crow by the Night’s Watch but seems to be confused when the question of the Three Eyed Crow is put to him.  The Three Eyed crow who may even be visiting Euron GreyJoy to boot.  Crows who seem to be brother’s to the Ravens.

The Night’s Watch is also only called crows by men beyond the wall.

Whoever the Three Eye’d Crow is, he is not Bloodraven, but used to be a member of the Watch possibly.

Yet Bloodraven and the COTF are using the same dark magic it would seem.

The Only person I can think of is The Nights King.  I would love to hear further thoughts, opinions, or links between the faceless men and what may be going on here in the big picture.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

I haven't read this post yet, only the title but go look at what I was posting in your other thread, must've been while you were posting this! I was seriously just questioning BR being the 3EC. 

Gonna read the post now

[AlaskanSandman]

Just now, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

I haven't read this post yet, only the title but go look at what I was posting in your other thread, must've been while you were posting this! I was seriously just questioning BR being the 3EC. 

Gonna read the post now

Just cleaning it up cause i did a copy and paste so had to put everything in quotes real quick. I keep having glitches so working around them

 

[LynnS]

11 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

A Game of Thrones - Bran IV

"It was just a lie," he said bitterly, remembering the crow from his dream. "I can't fly. I can't even run."

"Crows are all liars," Old Nan agreed, from the chair where she sat doing her needlework. "I know a story about a crow."

Old Nan is talking about the Night's Watch.  Joer Mormont on the subject of liars:

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A Clash of Kings - Jon I

"I've always known that Robb would be Lord of Winterfell."

Mormont gave a whistle, and the bird flew to him again and settled on his arm. "A lord's one thing, a king's another." He offered the raven a handful of corn from his pocket. "They will garb your brother Robb in silks, satins, and velvets of a hundred different colors, while you live and die in black ringmail. He will wed some beautiful princess and father sons on her. You'll have no wife, nor will you ever hold a child of your own blood in your arms. Robb will rule, you will serve. Men will call you a crow. Him they'll call Your Grace. Singers will praise every little thing he does, while your greatest deeds all go unsung. Tell me that none of this troubles you, Jon . . . and I'll name you a liar, and know I have the truth of it."

So yes, the three-eyed crow is a man of the Night's Watch.  I think that Bloodraven is the tree that Bran sees in his tree dreams, rather than the crow which sometimes appears in his dreams with the tree.

[AlaskanSandman]

1 minute ago, LynnS said:

Old Nan is talking about the Night's Watch.  Joer Mormont on the subject of liars:

 

Generally agreed  that's what the thread assumption generally is, is that she's referring to the Watch and that it's a subtle nod to the Night's King. Not Bloodraven at all.

[maudisdottir]

14 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Yet when Bloodraven is asked about being the Crow, he seems quite puzzled.

I have to disagree with this. I don’t think he’s puzzled or confused, I think he’s being vague and talking in riddles. So many Bloodraven theories are centred around this quote, but I don’t think it means what you think it means.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

I'm not sure how it might be connected to the FM but it's interesting that Jojen sees Bran (winged wolf) chained down & the 3EC is trying to break the chains. It appears he/she is trying to help him. Also worth noting is that Jojen thinks he is taking Bran to the 3EC & once he has brought him to BR thinks he has succeeded in his part. But he hasn't has he. He didn't bring Bran to the 3EC but to the tree. Possibly where Bran will be chained to the earth never to fly. I'm not sure why the 3EC is trying to free Bran & help him fly but "all crows are liars" is worrisome. Will the 3EC free Bran from his "chains" only to push a worse fate upon him? 

[LynnS]

2 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Generally agreed  that's what the thread assumption generally is, is that she's referring to the Watch and that it's a subtle nod to the Night's King. Not Bloodraven at all.

Sure, the story about a crow is likely about the Night's King.  Bloodraven is more tree than man and Bran dreams of the tree together with the crow at times.  They seem to be two separate identities.

[AlaskanSandman]

Well it's not what mine centers around as i was hoping i had showed haha, as Bloodraven visit's people as a tree, irregardless of his possible confusion at the question, to which Bran also visits people as a Tree. Not a Three Eye's Crow. Which seems to be something apart

[AlaskanSandman]

1 minute ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

I'm not sure how it might be connected to the FM but it's interesting that Jojen sees Bran (winged wolf) chained down & the 3EC is trying to break the chains. It appears he/she is trying to help him. Also worth noting is that Jojen thinks he is taking Bran to the 3EC & once he has brought him to BR thinks he has succeeded in his part. But he hasn't has he. He didn't bring Bran to the 3EC but to the tree. Possibly where Bran will be chained to the earth never to fly. I'm not sure why the 3EC is trying to free Bran & help him fly but "all crows are liars" is worrisome. Will the 3EC free Bran from his "chains" only to push a worse fate upon him? 

You caught that too?  It is a very interesting catch and does seem to be subtly alluded to doesn't it?

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

1 minute ago, maudisdottir said:

I have to disagree with this. I don’t think he’s puzzled or confused, I think he’s being vague and talking in riddles. So many Bloodraven theories are centred around this quote, but I don’t think it means what you think it means.

What is your alternative? I've always read this passage as BR not knowing why Bran is asking him if he is a crow. What does he have to be vague about? 

[AlaskanSandman]

2 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Sure, the story about a crow is likely about the Night's King.  Bloodraven is more tree than man and Bran dreams of the tree together with the crow at times.  They seem to be two separate identities.

They really do, and Bran seems constantly afraid of the Tree and Bloodraven even after meeting him. Where as he seems to trust the Three Eye'd Crow

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

Also there seems to be the same magic across the board. Arya, Dany, & Bran all experience it far apart from each other leading me to believe there aren't different forms of magic but it's all one & the same. 

Interesting also that Bran was staring at the flames before having his vision not connected to the tree. Is this when Mel saw him? She seems to think BR is seeing her. The flames could be a sort of two way mirror when 2 seers are peering into them at the same time.

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

You may be interested in this. 

It is very well written.

@LiveFirstDieLater

[AlaskanSandman]

8 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

You may be interested in this. 

It is very well written.

@LiveFirstDieLater

Looks really long, alot of rambling, and the quotes are not clearly defined from the main text of what they're saying, i have some of these same problems haha but the quotes would have helped. I gave it a quick peak though and does mention some of the same stuff while missing others. 

That being said, i obviously agree with most of it. The end part should have been clearly defined a little more but i dont blame them. I chose not to even go there and leave it open for readers. There is definitely possible signs of Bloodraven helping to guide Bran into his potential role as the Three Eyed Crow that is the Night's King. Again, i wasn't brave enough to take mine to that point and left it to the reader hahah

[AlaskanSandman]

17 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Also there seems to be the same magic across the board. Arya, Dany, & Bran all experience it far apart from each other leading me to believe there aren't different forms of magic but it's all one & the same. 

Interesting also that Bran was staring at the flames before having his vision not connected to the tree. Is this when Mel saw him? She seems to think BR is seeing her. The flames could be a sort of two way mirror when 2 seers are peering into them at the same time.

Very nice catch!!! I hadn't even noticed that!!! 

[The Fattest Leech]

This is totally a topic for @LiveFirstDieLater. She has a few threads that discuss these ideas.

As far as the bit you mentioned about Bran and the wood pressing against his face, I considered that myself over time and even wrote an admitted crackpot idea just to speculate and discuss it.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/145362-brans-skin-is-changing-what-now/

 

[AlaskanSandman]

Just now, The Fattest Leech said:

This is totally a topic for @LiveFirstDieLater. She has a few threads that discuss these ideas.

As far as the bit you mentioned about Bran and the wood pressing against his face, I considered that myself over time and even wrote an admitted crackpot idea just to speculate and discuss it.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/145362-brans-skin-is-changing-what-now/

 

Well i definitely like where she was going in her other thread! @Lyanna<3Rhaegar made a great observation about Bran having fire visions and brings up an interesting point about the use of it between them and how maybe even visions maybe given through the flames. 

[Curled Finger]

Er, for all it's worth I wouldn't bet the farm on Bloodraven's vague reply to being asked if he's the 3EC being deceptive. Any LC of the Nights Watch could be super tight like Jeor Mormont or really terrible like the Nights King.   As Hand of the King, Bloodraven served with unimpeachable loyalty and he was wicked smart.   How many bonafide geniuses do you know?  I think we all have to agree that at some point our red-eyed Brynden Rivers had to become aware of his green sight and ultimate destiny.  It's not a far stretch for Bloodraven to have had the same dreams Bran had.  Is there any way he could have known he was a greenseer or his destiny before going to the place the Old Gods live?  He was rumored to be a sorcerer along with his half sister Shiera, so it's possible.  And he's a magic Targaryan as well--could that have blocked out his other magic or vice versa?   That's my long circuitous and fumbling way of asking what sort of LC Bloodraven was.  I don't recall a mention of him for any great deed at the NW.  Still his past service should indicate a great deed at the Wall.  He's still in his NW uniform when Bran finds him for crying out loud.  

Do I think the 3EC is the same entity as Bloodraven?   Not exactly, but I think both are trying to get Bran to the same place.  

I can't even remember where I read some SSM where GRRM said something about the Nights King being a legend, not necessarily a real person or something like that.  I mean, what clues do we even have that there is a recurring Nights King in our tale?  The corpse bride was maybe a well disguised weirwood?  The pieces aren't there and that sucks because I would dig reading about this she demon.   

I realize that doesn't begin to answer the OP and many fine posts after.   Just my 2 cents for all it's worth...

[AlaskanSandman]

3 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Er, for all it's worth I wouldn't bet the farm on Bloodraven's vague reply to being asked if he's the 3EC being deceptive.

Well it's not what my theory hinges on, as mentioned above, there is more than enough clues to hint to him not being the Three Eye'd Crow as he's always the Tree in visions. 

 

3 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Brynden Rivers had to become aware of his green sight and ultimate destiny. 

Yes, but unlike Bran, Bloodraven would likely be aware of Rhllorism and or Fire magic on some level. Fire and Blood, it's the house words after all of House Targaryen. His sister too, was a practitioner. So his introduction to it was likely by fire, which is interesting given the catch of Bran's fire vision in his last chapter and that the Three Eye'd Crow is seeking him, with Deep Blue Eyes described like that only of the Others, The Corpse Queen, and Hugor of the Hill's wife.

 

3 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Do I think the 3EC is the same entity as Bloodraven?   Not exactly, but I think both are trying to get Bran to the same place

This i agree with, though they are not doing it for the same reasons i think. Im feeling like Bloodraven needs him to full fill what ever ties Bran to the Night's King, as a possible way to bring him down, possibly by killing Bran.

Remember, Bloodraven is the last Greenseerer, not Bran. Bran doesn't even fit the description. Neither Golden, Green, or Red eyes. 

3 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

I can't even remember where I read some SSM where GRRM said something about the Nights King being a legend, not necessarily a real person or something like that. 

It was along the lines of "He's akin to Bran the Builder and Lann the Clever, and no more likely alive than they are".

No more "likely". That sounds like not putting your self into a corner. That's not, "yes" he's alive and its' not "No" he's not alive. That's, i dont wanna say just yet, cause what would be the point in writing my book. 

3 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

The pieces aren't there and that sucks because I would dig reading about this she demon.   

The pieces are there though, it's just up to you as the reader/investigator to have to make a judgement on whether or not your gonna chose to believe something and your "hunch" or your not. It's a gamble always, but at some point, you have to take an educated guess and not stay on the fence. 

Sure it's easiest to just discredit it all, but that doesn't mean it's right or wrong