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Bloodraven is not the Three Eye'd Crow.


AlaskanSandman

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On 12/10/2017 at 9:55 PM, AlaskanSandman said:

Bloodraven is not the Three Eye’d Crow. In here I will seek to separate the two and see if we can’t decide what is going on, if anything.

Crows and Ravens. What’s the difference, is there one. Our author can’t seem to tell the difference

I would suggest the author probably does know the difference between a crow and a raven. I would further suggest that the crow raven thing is part of his ambiguous writing style.

Example being, Bran climbs structures and feeds crows corn.  My assumption is that Bran child knows the difference betwixt the two birds that belong to the same (?) family. I don’t have ravens in my part of the country. I have crows and hawks.

I would further stipulate that Mormont’s raven likes corn. Big whoop. So does Bran’s crows.

Herein lays the problem as I see it--- Jojen almost dies from a sickness. During which he has a dream. Jojen gets well and tells his pop about the dream. Howland sends his children to WF. Jojen & his sister try to convince Bran that he is special and that they need to embark on a journey to find this three eyed crow.

Never mind that Jojen’s papa is the crannogman who now controls the Neck and that he rode with Eddard to Rhaegar’s tower of joy.

It took five books to get Bran to his destination. Why did the old man in the CotF cave stutter, sputter and mumble? Could it possibly be that he hasn’t engaged in conversation for a while?

While you and  @LiveFirstDieLater  have put forth interesting ideas that the 3EC is not the man in the CotF cave that I assume to be Bloodraven aka LC Rivers it begs the question as to why Coldhands was looking for the “one” when he came upon and saved Samwell & Gilly and why Coldhands fought to get Bran & companions into a cave that he can't enter.

Why were Coldhands and the ravens so intent on getting Bran & companions to the CotF cave and the old man?

Bran while in the cave skinchanged a raven. He felt the presence of another spirit inside the bird.

A Dance with Dragons     - Bran III "Someone else was in the raven," he told Lord Brynden, once he had returned to his own skin. "Some girl. I felt her.""A woman, of those who sing the song of earth," his teacher said. "Long dead, yet a part of her remains, just as a part of you would remain in Summer if your boy's flesh were to die upon the morrow. A shadow on the soul. She will not harm you."      "Do all the birds have singers in them?"      "All," Lord Brynden said. "It was the singers who taught the First Men to send messages by raven … but in those days, the birds would speak the words. The trees remember, but men forget, and so now they write the messages on parchment and tie them round the feet of birds who have never shared their skin."/

What was Luwin’s history lesson?  He talks of the CotF, whose wisemen were called greenseers. If I look at Luwin’s history lesson to Bran I see similarities between the CotF and Howland’s children. I put the lesson in reveal tabs to save space.

Spoiler

A Game of Thrones - Bran VII     Maester Luwin tugged at his chain collar where it chafed against his neck. "They were people of the Dawn Age, the very first, before kings and kingdoms," he said. "In those days, there were no castles or holdfasts, no cities, not so much as a market town to be found between here and the sea of Dorne. There were no men at all. Only the children of the forest dwelt in the lands we now call the Seven Kingdoms.

 

"They were a people dark and beautiful, small of stature, no taller than children even when grown to manhood. They lived in the depths of the wood, in caves and crannogs and secret tree towns. Slight as they were, the children were quick and graceful. Male and female hunted together, with weirwood bows and flying snares. Their gods were the gods of the forest, stream, and stone, the old gods whose names are secret. Their wise men were called greenseers, and carved strange faces in the weirwoods to keep watch on the woods. How long the children reigned here or where they came from, no man can know.

 

"But some twelve thousand years ago, the First Men appeared from the east, crossing the Broken Arm of Dorne before it was broken. They came with bronze swords and great leathern shields, riding horses. No horse had ever been seen on this side of the narrow sea. No doubt the children were as frightened by the horses as the First Men were by the faces in the trees. As the First Men carved out holdfasts and farms, they cut down the faces and gave them to the fire. Horror-struck, the children went to war. The old songs say that the greenseers used dark magics to make the seas rise and sweep away the land, shattering the Arm, but it was too late to close the door. The wars went on until the earth ran red with blood of men and children both, but more children than men, for men were bigger and stronger, and wood and stone and obsidian make a poor match for bronze. Finally the wise of both races prevailed, and the chiefs and heroes of the First Men met the greenseers and wood dancers amidst the weirwood groves of a small island in the great lake called Gods Eye.

 

"There they forged the Pact. The First Men were given the coastlands, the high plains and bright meadows, the mountains and bogs, but the deep woods were to remain forever the children's, and no more weirwoods were to be put to the axe anywhere in the realm. So the gods might bear witness to the signing, every tree on the island was given a face, and afterward, the sacred order of green men was formed to keep watch over the Isle of Faces.

 

"The Pact began four thousand years of friendship between men and children. In time, the First Men even put aside the gods they had brought with them, and took up the worship of the secret gods of the wood. The signing of the Pact ended the Dawn Age, and began the Age of Heroes."

 

 

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6 hours ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

 

So I've toyed with the idea that Mance was/is the three eyed crow... and I'm not convinced, but it's interesting...

Of course Mance was/is a "crow", a member of the night's watch. Rather than post a ton of quotes I'll just leave this for those interested in Mance/crow quotes:

https://asearchoficeandfire.com/?q=mance+crow&scope[]=agot&scope[]=adwd&scope[]=tmk&scope[]=acok&scope[]=twow&scope[]=twoiaf&scope[]=asos&scope[]=thk&scope[]=trp&scope[]=affc&scope[]=tss&scope[]=tpatq

He was in Winterfell when Bran fell.

He is opposed to the Others, in fact it seems that he's been aware and fighting them for as long, if not longer, than anyone else (alive).

Mance has raven wings on his bronze and iron helm, I'm not sure how that plays into or against the idea, or how raven wings differ from crow wings (both have feathers anyway)... and what it implies.

And is it possible Mance is a skinchanger? He was somehow able to get Varamyr and other skinchangers to follow him.

 
 
 
Anyway, I know it's crazy, you know it's crazy, but I wanted to throw Mance into the ring a possible 3eC candidate.

This is quite interesting. Something is up with Mance & this is one possible explanation as to why Mel decided to save Mance. In this scenario what could be Mance's "other" motives for going to WF when set on the journey to rescue the fleeing fArya Stark? 

Possible motives for the 3EC dreams Bran gets? 

On my first read I didn't pick up on R+L=J & actually thought Mance may be Jon's father or some relation to him. Not much evidence, just felt like he was very interested in Jon & had a gut feeling he was his dad. At any rate I definitely think Mr. Rayder still has some secrets to tell. 

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On 12/12/2017 at 0:57 AM, LynnS said:

I'm not sure how Jon will be resurrected.  I think Bran's vision of Jon says that he is dead:

The memory of warmth is used to describe death:

So in Jon's case, the warmth of life has fled from him and this is a vision of the future, followed by another vision of what comes next, when Bran peers into the heart of winter.  So it seems that Jon will end up alone in a cold bedAll the warmth has left Jon's body.  Bran describes Jon as 'sleeping' and I'm not sure that Bran will heed Bloodraven's warning not to seek to wake the dead.

If you are right and Jon is indeed the three-eyed crow, there would be a symmetry between Bran waking Jon from death and Jon waking Bran from his coma, reflecting your interpretation of the paradox of 'the oak recalls the acorn, the acorn dreams the oak, the stump lives in them both. And they remember...'  In essence, the so-called 'coma dream' and 'weirwood sapling dream' are mirror reflections of each other, with the crow opening the third eye of the 'three-eyed weirwood sapling' in the former, and the weirwood opening the third eye of the three-eyed crow in the latter, respectively. 

It makes sense that tree and crow would work together synergistically, just as the tree-bound greenseer (e.g. Bloodraven) must make use of his Night's Watch ranger brother's relative freedom of mobility to come and go, in order to do his errands on his behalf (e.g. Coldhands).  A 'three-eyed crow' is a greenseer/skinchanger Night's Watchman, a Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, hence, as I've pointed out to you, the three-eyed crow, signifying the leader among the crows, using the definite instead of indefinite article -- therefore ruling out Bran as the 'three-eyed crow', leaving only three candidates:  Bloodraven, Jon, or the Night's King.  (Alternatively, perhaps we ought to seriously consider @GloubieBoulga's idea that 'the crow is really a woman', with the 'crow' in question being a wordplay on 'crone' and referencing the Morrigan of Irish mythology...

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Bran III

"What are you doing?" he shrieked.

The crow opened its beak and cawed at him, a shrill scream of fear, and the grey mists shuddered and swirled around him and ripped away like a veil, and he saw that the crow was really a woman, a serving woman with long black hair, and he knew her from somewhere, from Winterfell, yes, that was it, he remembered her now, and then he realized that he was in Winterfell, in a bed high in some chilly tower room, and the black-haired woman dropped a basin of water to shatter on the floor and ran down the steps, shouting, "He's awake, he's awake, he's awake."

).  The Night's King 'flying down from the Wall,' or leaving his post, can be understood symbolically as a crow flying down off a tree, or leaving his perch, which makes the Wall itself a giant tree, as its foundation of the weirwood at the 'Black Gate' suggests.  It follows, that the person imprisoned in the Black Gate is a greenseer.

'The stump lives' seems to be referring to both Jon and Bran being resurrected.

There might be a play on words with 'recalls,' meaning 'remember' as well as literally to 'call back...'

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Bran III

"...He's not dead, he's not, I saw him, he's back at Winterfell, he's still alive."

"No," said Leaf. "He is gone, boy. Do not seek to call him back from death."

"I saw him." 

So, if the 'oak recalls the acorn', perhaps the oak (Jon, the oldest brother = 3EC) calls back the acorn (Bran, his younger brother) from death, who in turn dreams the oak who calls him back from death ('dreaming the oak' is the equivalent of the weirwood sapling dream, sent from the future in the cave... but dreamt in the past in the crypt), etc. etc. etc!  

There is no locatable source to magic.  The eye-opening relationship is reciprocal and paradoxical.  One greenseer opens the third eye of another, the very same who opened the third eye of the former, enabling him to open the third eye of the latter.  This is perhaps an alternate explanation to why the third eye of the crow in the coma dream only appears after Bran has opened his own third eye -- not because the three-eyed crow is Bran himself, but because the act of the three-eyed crow opening his own third eye is contingent upon Bran opening his, and vice versa!  Deary me -- this is convoluted.  

Here is another catch I found recently, which you might enjoy:

Quote

A Storm of Swords - Jon X

"Mance!" the shout came. It was a scout, bursting from the trees on a lathered horse. "Mance, there's more, they're all around us, iron men, iron, a host of iron men."

Cursing, Mance swung up into the saddle. "Varamyr, stay and see that no harm comes to Dalla." The King-beyond-the-Wall pointed his sword at Jon. "And keep a few extra eyes on this crow. If he runs, rip out his throat."

"Aye, I'll do that." The skinchanger was a head shorter than Jon, slumped and soft, but that shadowcat could disembowel him with one paw. "They're coming from the north too," Varamyr told Mance. "You best go."

This is delightfully ambiguous.  Who is the one having a few 'extra eyes [on him]'...Varamyr and/or Jon?

The three-eyed crow is the one who leads Bran into the crypts to say goodbye to Ned after his death, a very intimate gesture.  Given that the crypt is a 'Stark place,' one would expect the three-eyed crow coming and going from the crypts so freely to be a Stark, seeming to rule out Bloodraven who is not a Stark on either side.  It might also explain why Jon has the recurring 'crypt dreams,' as he's hanging out there in his 'three-eyed crow' guise on the 'third-eye plane' of reality.  He doesn't know he's the three-eyed crow any more than Bloodraven does -- he truly 'knows nothing,' despite his eye being full of a 'terrible knowledge'!

Finally, Ghost opened his eyes before Summer -- a massive hint that Jon opened his third eye before Bran (which he of course couldn't have done if time were linear and as straightforward as Dorian et al. would have it, because it was Bran who opened Jon's third eye...B)).

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45 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

If you are right and Jon is indeed the three-eyed crow, there would be a symmetry between Bran waking Jon from death and Jon waking Bran from his coma, reflecting your interpretation of the paradox of 'the oak recalls the acorn, the acorn dreams the oak@GloubieBoulga, the stump lives in them both. And they remember...'  In essence, the so-called 'coma dream' and 'weirwood sapling dream' are mirror reflections of each other, with the crow opening the third eye of the 'three-eyed weirwood sapling' in the former, and the weirwood opening the third eye of the three-eyed crow in the latter, respectively. ~snipped a bit~

 

This is actually very interesting, and something that should have hit me in the head a long time ago :P:bang:.

Except, I am one of those that do not think Jon is dead-dead (so many reasons). He is in his own coma. Jon may have a final death, but not until the end of the story.

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56 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

This is actually very interesting, and something that should have hit me in the head a long time ago :P:bang:.

Except, I am one of those that do not think Jon is dead-dead (so many reasons). He is in his own coma. Jon may have a final death, but not until the end of the story.

Well, yes, it is very interesting, but I am actually more interested in the name of mysterious man 'X' for whom Lisa Tuttle jilted GRRM in the fateful year of 1974!  :devil:  (P.S.  have you seen @Rusted Revolver's ingenious take on it...ME-LISA-(A)NDRE?)

Seriously, though, Jon is the one who wakes the sleepers, no?  Here is another whom Jon wishes to rouse before it's too late:

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Arya I

Jon watched them leave, and Arya watched Jon. His face had grown as still as the pool at the heart of the godswood. Finally he climbed down off the window. "The show is done," he said. He bent to scratch Ghost behind the ears. The white wolf rose and rubbed against him. "You had best run back to your room, little sister. Septa Mordane will surely be lurking. The longer you hide, the sterner the penance. You'll be sewing all through winter. When the spring thaw comes, they will find your body with a needle still locked tight between your frozen fingers."

It's clear from Ghost's eyes opening before the other siblings that Ghost is the alpha wolf of the pack -- the one who is literally and figuratively awake before all the others -- implying that Jon is their natural leader as well as being the oldest sibling...wolves' eyes opening is a sign of maturity (definitely older than Robb, as far as I can tell from the symbolic clues).

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2 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

Well, yes, it is very interesting, but I am actually more interested in the name of mysterious man 'X' for whom Lisa Tuttle jilted GRRM in the fateful year of 1974!  :devil:  (P.S.  have you seen @Rusted Revolver's ingenious take on it...ME-LISA-(A)NDRE?)

I have not seen this, but I will check it out now. Thank you :thumbsup:

2 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

Seriously, though, Jon is the one who wakes the sleepers, no?  Here is another Jon wishes to rouse:

It's clear from Ghost's eyes opening before the other siblings that Ghost is the alpha wolf of the pack -- the one who is literally and figuratively awake before all the others -- implying that Jon is their natural leader as well as being the oldest sibling...wolves' eyes opening is a sign of maturity (definitely older than Robb, as far as I can tell from the symbolic clues).

I totally agree with Jon and Ghost and the eyes open and pack leader signs. I always have. But there is more.

There are other clear signs that Jon is not dead-dead (atleast not yet). We love to talk and timelines here, and time as a river, Bran and his weirwood growth and leaves rustling, and Tyrion passing Nymeria's old castle, etc. Well, we have a past, present, future of Jon as well.

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2 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

(Alternatively, perhaps we ought to seriously consider @GloubieBoulga's idea that 'the crow is really a woman', with the 'crow' in question being a wordplay on 'crone' and referencing the Morrigan of Irish mythology...

That's a very good summary of all the points in favor of Jon as the 3EC.  I want to come back to this idea that the crow is a woman:

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Bran III

I've noticed, said the three-eyed crow. It took to the air, flapping its wings in his face, slowing him, blinding him. He faltered in the air as its pinions beat against his cheeks. Its beak stabbed at him fiercely, and Bran felt a sudden blinding pain in the middle of his forehead, between his eyes.

"What are you doing?" he shrieked.

The crow opened its beak and cawed at him, a shrill scream of fear, and the grey mists shuddered and swirled around him and ripped away like a veil, and he saw that the crow was really a woman, a serving woman with long black hair, and he knew her from somewhere, from Winterfell, yes, that was it, he remembered her now, and then he realized that he was in Winterfell, in a bed high in some chilly tower room, and the black-haired woman dropped a basin of water to shatter on the floor and ran down the steps, shouting, "He's awake, he's awake, he's awake."

I have the sense that when the 3EC stabs Bran in the forehead; Bran begins to come back to consciousness and actually shrieks out loud startling the serving woman in his room; the veil of dream is lifting and the last thing he sees in his dream is the crow; the first things he sees when he wakes is the serving woman who is also shrieking.  The serving woman resolves into someone he recognizes from Winterfell.

If the crow is a woman, someone he recognizes from Winterfell; then perhaps Arya will become a candidate at some point.  "Stick them with the pointy end." A grey mist shuddering and swirling around sounds a bit like a glamor.

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Melisandre I

He leaves me no choice. So be it. "Devan, leave us," she said, and the squire slipped away and closed the door behind him.

Melisandre touched the ruby at her neck and spoke a word.

The sound echoed queerly from the corners of the room and twisted like a worm inside their ears. The wildling heard one word, the crow another. Neither was the word that left her lips. The ruby on the wildling's wrist darkened, and the wisps of light and shadow around him writhed and faded.

 

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A Clash of Kings - Bran II

"A prince should lie better than that." Osha laughed. "Well, your dreams are your business. Mine's in the kitchens, and I'd best be getting back before Gage starts to shouting and waving that big wooden spoon of his. By your leave, my prince."

She should never have talked about the wolf dreams, Bran thought as Hodor carried him up the steps to his bedchamber. He fought against sleep as long as he could, but in the end it took him as it always did. On this night he dreamed of the weirwood. It was looking at him with its deep red eyes, calling to him with its twisted wooden mouth, and from its pale branches the three-eyed crow came flapping, pecking at his face and crying his name in a voice as sharp as swords.

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  A Game of Thrones - Arya I

Sansa sighed as she stitched. "Poor Jon," she said. "He gets jealous because he's a bastard."

"He's our brother," Arya said, much too loudly. Her voice cut through the afternoon quiet of the tower room.

A Game of Thrones - Arya IV

Fear cuts deeper than swords, the quiet voice inside her whispered. Suddenly Arya remembered the crypts at Winterfell. They were a lot scarier than this place, she told herself. She'd been just a little girl the first time she saw them. Her brother Robb had taken them down, her and Sansa and baby Bran, who'd been no bigger than Rickon was now. They'd only had one candle between them, and Bran's eyes had gotten as big as saucers as he stared at the stone faces of the Kings of Winter, with their wolves at their feet and their iron swords across their laps.

 

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9 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

Well, yes, it is very interesting, but I am actually more interested in the name of mysterious man 'X' for whom Lisa Tuttle jilted GRRM in the fateful year of 1974!  :devil:  (P.S.  have you seen @Rusted Revolver's ingenious take on it...ME-LISA-(A)NDRE?)

Geez, I'm not sure I want to know the answer if GRRM identifies with Robert Baratheon.  

The tale of the Night's King chasing and catching the corpse queen and giving her his seed is reflected in Jon Arryn's fevered ramblings that "the seed is strong, tell Robert his seed is strong".

I have the notion that the Night's King had several monikers including Horned Lord.  The parallel story would be Robert, the crowned stag giving his seed to Lyanna who is forever his dead queen.

Quote

A woman was his downfall; a woman glimpsed from atop the Wall, with skin as white as the moon and eyes like blue stars. Fearing nothing, he chased her and caught her and loved her, though her skin was cold as ice, and when he gave his seed to her he gave his soul as well. 

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Catelyn VI

Lysa seated herself near the fire and said, "Come to Mother, my sweet one." She straightened his bedclothes and fussed with his fine brown hair. "Isn't he beautiful? And strong too, don't you believe the things you hear. Jon knew. The seed is strong, he told me. His last words. He kept saying Robert's name, and he grabbed my arm so hard he left marks. Tell them, the seed is strong. His seed. He wanted everyone to know what a good strong boy my baby was going to be."

A Storm of Swords - Sansa VI

"He is eight. And not robust. But such a good boy, so bright and clever. He will be a great man, Alayne. The seed is strong, my lord husband said before he died. His last words. The gods sometimes let us glimpse the future as we lay dying.

 

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On 12/13/2017 at 10:45 PM, LynnS said:

That's a very good summary of all the points in favor of Jon as the 3EC.  I want to come back to this idea that the crow is a woman:

I do not mean any offense. Perhaps I am just dense or uneducated. So forgive my comprehension.  From what I have read Jon is not Bran's 3EC nor is the crow a woman. Martin took five books to get Bran & companions to the CotF cave and the old man. Why?

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46 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

I do not mean any offense. Perhaps I am just dense or uneducated. So forgive my comprehension.  From what I have read Jon is not Bran's 3EC nor is the crow a woman. Martin took five books to get Bran & companions to the CotF cave and the old man. Why?

 

You're not dense it all comes down to how you personally interpret the text.

for example when somebody has a vision about a Targaryen they see a dragon or if they have a vision of a Stark the see a Wolf. When Bran dreams of Bloodraven he doesn't see the 3 Eyed Crow, so I interpret that as Bloodraven not being who Bran thinks he is and Bran currently thinks he is the 3 Eyed Crow.

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1 hour ago, Clegane'sPup said:

I do not mean any offense. Perhaps I am just dense or uneducated. So forgive my comprehension.  From what I have read Jon is not Bran's 3EC nor is the crow a woman. Martin took five books to get Bran & companions to the CotF cave and the old man. Why?

Oh I don't think you're dense and I'm not inclined to think the 3EC is a woman; but I will entertain the idea none the less.  I will stick with the notion that Jon is the 3EC for the reasons stated. 

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On 11.12.2017 at 4:55 AM, AlaskanSandman said:

"Once, aye. Black of garb and black of blood."

Out of what "tree-man" said to Bran, this part confirms that he used to be a Bloodraven. He was a Targaryen bastard, this is the meaning of him having black blood. Targaryens have dragon's blood, and blood of dragons are black. So as half-Targaryen he also had a black blood, figuratively.

Also he used to be a Bloodraven, so he was a raven before, and he was a Brother of Night's Watch, and wore black garb. He stopped being Lord Bloodraven, and became a Three Eye'd Crow.

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11 hours ago, Megorova said:

Out of what "tree-man" said to Bran, this part confirms that he used to be a Bloodraven. He was a Targaryen bastard, this is the meaning of him having black blood. Targaryens have dragon's blood, and blood of dragons are black. So as half-Targaryen he also had a black blood, figuratively.

Also he used to be a Bloodraven, so he was a raven before, and he was a Brother of Night's Watch, and wore black garb. He stopped being Lord Bloodraven, and became a Three Eye'd Crow.

Right. I think where some of us get caught up is that BR doesn't seem to know what Bran is talking about when he asks him if he is the 3EC. Which can be explained away if BR doesn't know how he appears to Bran in his visions/dreams but in other visions BR appears to people as a tree. Which leads some of us to wonder if he isn't the 3EC. 

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57 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Right. I think where some of us get caught up is that BR doesn't seem to know what Bran is talking about when he asks him if he is the 3EC. Which can be explained away if BR doesn't know how he appears to Bran in his visions/dreams but in other visions BR appears to people as a tree. Which leads some of us to wonder if he isn't the 3EC. 

Or maybe he just lied to Bran, pretended that he doesn't understand what he's saying. Because it was 3EC who lead Bran beyong The Wall, and into that cave. He lured him, and then pretended that it wasn't him, and he had nothing to do with it. The reason for that could be that he is dying, and he and Children know about it, so they lured Bran there, to turn him into Bloodraven's replacement. Each time Bran is connecting to the Tree, their connection becomes stronger. and Tree's roots are getting closer to Bran's body. For example aftre that time prior last:

"His father and the black pool and the godswood faded and were gone and he was back in the cavern, the pale thick roots of his weirwood throne cradling his limbs as a mother does a child. .... “I saw him.” Bran could feel rough wood pressing against one cheek. “He was cleaning Ice.” "

That tree is a parasite. So if Children will be connecting to it too often, then it will grow thru them. So instead they were using Brynden, and now Bran.

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1 hour ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Right. I think where some of us get caught up is that BR doesn't seem to know what Bran is talking about when he asks him if he is the 3EC. Which can be explained away if BR doesn't know how he appears to Bran in his visions/dreams but in other visions BR appears to people as a tree. Which leads some of us to wonder if he isn't the 3EC. 

BR is the most obvious candidate, a red flag in my mind. When Bran talks about his wolf dreams, tree dreams and crow dreams; he also says that sometimes the tree and the crow appear together. 

Quote

A Clash of Kings - Bran V

Jojen sat on Bran's bed. "Tell me what you dream."

He was scared, even then, but he had sworn to trust them, and a Stark of Winterfell keeps his sworn word. "There's different kinds," he said slowly. "There's the wolf dreams, those aren't so bad as the others. I run and hunt and kill squirrels. And there's dreams where the crow comes and tells me to fly. Sometimes the tree is in those dreams too, calling my name. That frightens me. But the worst dreams are when I fall." He looked down into the yard, feeling miserable. "I never used to fall before. When I climbed. I went everyplace, up on the roofs and along the walls, I used to feed the crows in the Burned Tower. Mother was afraid that I would fall but I knew I never would. Only I did, and now when I sleep I fall all the time."

The crow has conversations with Bran, tells him to fly.  The tree only calls Bran's name.  If the tree also shows up in Bran's dreams, why are there no conversations with Bran of a type we see between Bran and Jon?  BR tells Bran that he has been watching him but nothing else. 

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37 minutes ago, LynnS said:

BR is the most obvious candidate, a red flag in my mind. When Bran talks about his wolf dreams, tree dreams and crow dreams; he also says that sometimes the tree and the crow appear together. 

The crow has conversations with Bran, tells him to fly.  The tree only calls Bran's name.  If the tree also shows up in Bran's dreams, why are there no conversations with Bran of a type we see between Bran and Jon?  BR tells Bran that he has been watching him but nothing else. 

The crow from those dreams are Bloodraven, but the tree is a parasite, and it fused itself with Bloodraven and was speaking thru him in those dreams, i.e. thru the crow. But could be that Bloodraven himself (what is left of his consciousness) isn't aware of the fact, that the tree was talking to Bran thru him (Bloodraven).

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38 minutes ago, Megorova said:

Or maybe he just lied to Bran, pretended that he doesn't understand what he's saying. Because it was 3EC who lead Bran beyong The Wall, and into that cave. He lured him, and then pretended that it wasn't him, and he had nothing to do with it. The reason for that could be that he is dying, and he and Children know about it, so they lured Bran there, to turn him into Bloodraven's replacement. Each time Bran is connecting to the Tree, their connection becomes stronger. and Tree's roots are getting closer to Bran's body. For example aftre that time prior last:

He could have lied but that motive seems flimsy especially when he pretty much tells Bran he has been calling him to him in his dreams: 

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A … crow?" The pale lord's voice was dry. His lips moved slowly, as if they had forgotten how to form words. "Once, aye. Black of garb and black of blood." The clothes he wore were rotten and faded, spotted with moss and eaten through with worms, but once they had been black. "I have been many things, Bran. Now I am as you see me, and now you will understand why I could not come to you … except in dreams.

So he openly admits he is coming to Bran in his dreams. What motive would he have to lie & say he isn't the crow coming to him in his dreams if he is? He has motive to lie about why he is calling Bran to him, but not about what he is appearing as. 

Interesting also is that BR lured him there to be his replacement & effectively "chain" him to the earth, while in a Jojen (I believe, could have been Bran's) green dream the 3EC is trying to peck at the chains holding Bran to the earth, in an attempt to free him. This also seems to contradict BR being the 3EC as BR is planning on chaining him to the earth. 

Also your reasoning doesn't explain why Bran has a tree appearing to him as well. As Lynn S said:

47 minutes ago, LynnS said:

BR is the most obvious candidate, a red flag in my mind. When Bran talks about his wolf dreams, tree dreams and crow dreams; he also says that sometimes the tree and the crow appear together. 

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A Clash of Kings - Bran V

Jojen sat on Bran's bed. "Tell me what you dream."

He was scared, even then, but he had sworn to trust them, and a Stark of Winterfell keeps his sworn word. "There's different kinds," he said slowly. "There's the wolf dreams, those aren't so bad as the others. I run and hunt and kill squirrels. And there's dreams where the crow comes and tells me to fly. Sometimes the tree is in those dreams too, calling my name. That frightens me. But the worst dreams are when I fall." He looked down into the yard, feeling miserable. "I never used to fall before. When I climbed. I went everyplace, up on the roofs and along the walls, I used to feed the crows in the Burned Tower. Mother was afraid that I would fall but I knew I never would. Only I did, and now when I sleep I fall all the time."

The crow has conversations with Bran, tells him to fly.  The tree only calls Bran's name.  If the tree also shows up in Bran's dreams, why are there no conversations with Bran of a type we see between Bran and Jon?  BR tells Bran that he has been watching him but nothing else. 

Edited 27 minutes ago by LynnS

I agree that its a red herring & the most obvious contradiction to BR being the 3EC is that he appears as a tree, not a crow. Not only in Bran's dreams but Mel's visions as well. 

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6 minutes ago, Megorova said:

The crow from those dreams are Bloodraven, but the tree is a parasite, and it fused itself with Bloodraven and was speaking thru him in those dreams, i.e. thru the crow. But could be that Bloodraven himself (what is left of his consciousness) isn't aware of the fact, that the tree was talking to Bran thru him (Bloodraven).

If the crow & the tree are one entity though why are they appearing as two separate entities? Some times alone, sometimes together. 

The tree fusing itself to BR & speaking through him doesn't really explain the crow part. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are saying but the tree being a parasite = fused itself to BR =\= the crow is BR & the tree is speaking through BR .... And the crow? I'm not following you I guess. 

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21 minutes ago, Megorova said:

The crow from those dreams are Bloodraven, but the tree is a parasite, and it fused itself with Bloodraven and was speaking thru him in those dreams, i.e. thru the crow. But could be that Bloodraven himself (what is left of his consciousness) isn't aware of the fact, that the tree was talking to Bran thru him (Bloodraven).

Or it could be that BR is so much a tree, he can only appear as a tree and some other agency is required to open Bran's third eye.      

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