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Angel Eyes

A call to arms

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"Everyone aged 10 to 60 will drill daily with spears, pikes, bow and arrow."

"Not just the boys. We can’t defend the North if only half the population is fighting."

I guess Sansa doesn't count?

I honestly think that Season 7 wasted an opportunity by not having Sansa learn to fight. She'll have to learn at some point or another, so she might as well learn now.

Edited by Angel Eyes

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1 hour ago, jcmontea said:

Lol. You so want to see her fight

It's not so much wanting to see her fight, it's the principle.

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39 minutes ago, Faera said:

Sure, but she really should get in a little self-defence practice.

The Lady of Winterfell is not a Mormont "shebear"; she's not supposed to fight on the battlements; if she's found in a situation where she has to use a weapon, it would mean that the battle is lost, the castle invested, etc.

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On 12/12/2017 at 2:50 PM, Nowy Tends said:

The Lady of Winterfell is not a Mormont "shebear"; she's not supposed to fight on the battlements; if she's found in a situation where she has to use a weapon, it would mean that the battle is lost, the castle invested, etc.

Training wouldn't hurt.

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I dig what you're saying here @Angel Eyes.  You and I both have commented on this before how the one who passes the sentence should swing the sword - a line that I believe was even referenced in season 7 itself - and so it was supremely disappointing to have Sansa sentence Littlefinger and Arya do the deed.  I would have solved this by in episode 2 or 3 showing Sansa training with Brienne in the courtyard for like 10 seconds before Littlefinger comes up to try to talk to her and she blows him off like she did a few times early in the season.  Happens before Arya arrives.  Boom, now we in the audience have reason to believe Sansa knows how to wield a weapon and then we can see her in action with the execution.

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On 12/12/2017 at 0:12 PM, jcmontea said:

Lol. You so want to see her fight

Long story short, if the King says everyone has to learn to fight, everyone learns. Sansa’s not above the law.

Edited by Angel Eyes

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On 12/21/2017 at 9:02 PM, Angel Eyes said:

Long story short, if the King says everyone has to learn to fight, everyone learns. Sansa’s not above the law.

She could possibly train a bit, but I'm not sure she would ever be proficient enough to actually execute someone herself. She could certainly botch an execution and torture someone to death. Running WF is going to keep her busy. The origin of the one who passes the sentence swings the sword seems a bit patriarchal.

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To me "the one who passes the sentence should swing the sword" is a very good standard to live by because it demands someone actually bear the consequences of their order rather than become too distant from the act. There is a lot to be said for it. The issue is that no one ever taught Sansa how to properly swing a sword in order to behead someone because she was a woman. Have Gendry make her a sword suitable for a woman to wield and made for a woman's form and at least learn how to do that.

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On 12/24/2017 at 8:04 PM, Apoplexy said:

The origin of the one who passes the sentence swings the sword seems a bit patriarchal.

Good point. 

Also, I think there is such a thing as capturing the spirit of the command versus the letter. She didn’t necesarily swing the sword against LF but she did cry so it clearly weighed on her and she did feel it. 

Of course, if this becomes a habit then obviously she runs the risk of becoming more and more disconnected, but on this one ocassion I think it is ok given what I said above and given that she is clearly in a position she was not trained or brought up for. 

Going forward I agree with @Faera

Edited by jcmontea

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17 hours ago, jcmontea said:

Of course, if this becomes a habit then obviously she runs the risk of becoming more and more disconnected, but on this one ocassion I think it is ok given what I said above and given that she is clearly in a position she was not trained or brought up for. 

2

Oh, I agree. Having Arya do the deed makes sense in context because she could be sure she wouldn't botch it. She is a practised killer. Plus, one could argue that while Sansa was the one in charge, this was a Sansa-Arya-Bran collective team up.

But yes, going forward I would like to see her carry out the sentences herself for exactly the reasons you stated (which align with my own).

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On 12/12/2017 at 8:28 AM, Angel Eyes said:

"Everyone aged 10 to 60 will drill daily with spears, pikes, bow and arrow."

"Not just the boys. We can’t defend the North if only half the population is fighting."

I guess Sansa doesn't count?

I honestly think that Season 7 wasted an opportunity by not having Sansa learn to fight. She'll have to learn at some point or another, so she might as well learn now.

yes this was the problem of season 7

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To some extent, training can make sense, but I wouldn't put too much time into for some people. I think a basic, cursory course for everyone, and then depending on skill and natural ability, extend the training training period. Time is limited at this point, so it's important to have people doing what they do best to aid the effort. For example, Hot Pie, yes, train him for awhile in basics, but then he needs to start preserving meats etc. 

Edited by Bear Claw

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18 hours ago, tormond said:

yes this was the problem of season 7

:P Sansa wielding a spear would surely have improved Season 7!

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On 12/27/2017 at 7:44 AM, Nowy Tends said:

:P Sansa wielding a spear would surely have improved Season 7!

Doesn’t have to be a spear. She could use a bow. Wouldn’t be the first time her actor wielded a bow. 

Edited by Angel Eyes

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On 12/25/2017 at 6:12 PM, jcmontea said:

 Also, I think there is such a thing as capturing the spirit of the command versus the letter. She didn’t necesarily swing the sword against LF but she did cry so it clearly weighed on her and she did feel it. 

Of course, if this becomes a habit then obviously she runs the risk of becoming more and more disconnected, but on this one ocassion I think it is ok given what I said above and given that she is clearly in a position she was not trained or brought up for.

@Faera

So long as Sansa isn't inured to the concept of killing, it should be fine if someone else does the deed. And I can see that's probably one of the reasons why it is considered honorable for the one passing the sentence to be swinging the sword. But it is also possible to become inured to killing in spite of always swinging the sword. In that case, it wouldn't matter who swings it. 

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I would be genuinely surprised to ever see Sansa fight, and I’d be frankly shocked to ever see her training in fighting. 

Sansa for all the ways she’s learned and evolved is still a product of Westerosi society, and adheres to the beliefs and values of that society. She’s not a rebel, she doesn’t look at the world in the way Brienne or Arya do. Sansa is, and has always aspired to be, the quintessential Lady, and while she’s realized that isn’t all beautiful weddings and a brave knight to defend her, that doesn’t mean she is going to be picking up the sword or lance to defend herself. It’s the same reason you don’t see the Queen of Thorns pull a dagger, Danny carry any kind of weapon or wear any armor (even when’s she riding into battle), Cersei, etc. Thats not the role they play in this specific story and universe. It’s really no different than playing a specific class in a video game, within the realm of that game all priests can’t use big two handed battle axes or all the warriors can’t wear anything but heavy plate even though theoretically they should be able to try and hold or wear whatever they please. Someone else wrote the rules and divided up the classes to tell a larger story and streamline a theoretical universe. 

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On 12/13/2017 at 10:11 PM, Lucius Lovejoy said:

I dig what you're saying here @Angel Eyes.  You and I both have commented on this before how the one who passes the sentence should swing the sword - a line that I believe was even referenced in season 7 itself - and so it was supremely disappointing to have Sansa sentence Littlefinger and Arya do the deed.  I would have solved this by in episode 2 or 3 showing Sansa training with Brienne in the courtyard for like 10 seconds before Littlefinger comes up to try to talk to her and she blows him off like she did a few times early in the season.  Happens before Arya arrives.  Boom, now we in the audience have reason to believe Sansa knows how to wield a weapon and then we can see her in action with the execution.

Well, I guess my thought is that she should know how to use a sword. And this also ties in with the thread about D&D hating being feminine. My thought is that she probably won’t use a sword, but she should learn how if the need arises. Remember Eowyn practicing with a sword in The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers?

Edited by Angel Eyes

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