The Last Jedi: Here There Be Spoilers

[Relic]

There was a point in the throne room where I thought...

...the movie would make a huge shift and Rey would turn Dark while Kylo fled towards the Light. Figured the next movie would would be an attempt to redeem Rey. Anyway...that obviously didn't happen and we are left with a status quo Kylo who seems to have no real motives for what he does other than a desire to kill...everything?

Also, thinking about it some more why didn't Kylo sense Leia was in the base before Luke walks out? Why did Luke decide to give up his physical body and become a Force Ghost? Cuz that makes zero sense to me. It was a beautiful scene but upon further reflection it seems to be more style than substance. 

 

[Rhom]

1 minute ago, Relic said:

There was a point in the throne room where I thought the movie would make a huge shift and Rey would turn Dark while Kylo fled towards the Light. Figured the next movie would would be an attempt to redeem Rey. Anyway...that obviously didn't happen and we are left with a status quo Kylo who seems to have no real motives for what he does other than a desire to kill...everything?

Also, thinking about it some more why didn't Kylo sense Leia was in the base before Luke walks out? Why did Luke decide to give up his physical body and become a Force Ghost? Cuz that makes zero sense to me. It was a beautiful scene but upon further reflection it seems to be more style than substance. 

 

I thought we might see Luke look down and see a burnt hole in his real body after the astral projection.  But that didn't happen either.

I did wonder why his hair was shorter and beard less gray.  I thought "well, if you're going to save the galaxy one more time... might as well look good doing it." 

[DMC]

21 minutes ago, Relic said:

Why did Luke decide to give up his physical body and become a Force Ghost? Cuz that makes zero sense to me. It was a beautiful scene but upon further reflection it seems to be more style than substance. 

If someone can cogently answer this, I will give them all the points.

[ljkeane]

42 minutes ago, Relic said:

 Why did Luke decide to give up his physical body and become a Force Ghost? Cuz that makes zero sense to me. It was a beautiful scene but upon further reflection it seems to be more style than substance. 

 

I assumed it was because he heard Leia's cry for help but there was no way he could physically get there in time so he astral projects himself or whatever.

Anyway, I just got back from seeing it and I've got mixed feelings.

I liked that it wasn't as derivative as TFA, all of the bits with Luke were really good, it was pretty visually stunning at times and I quite liked Rose humanising the sacrifice of all the Resistance pilots Poe gets killed. On the downside, as pretty much everyone's said, the  jaunt to the casino was pointless and you could have cut Finn out of the movie and it wouldn't have made too much difference. Also, although his death was good, I not sure about Luke dying; he wasn't really in TFA and now he's not really going to be in Episode IX, it feels a bit like we've been a bit short changed to get a new Star Wars Trilogy but only one film with Luke Skywalker in.

[denstorebog]

32 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

If someone can cogently answer this, I will give them all the points.

So he could have a binary sunset moment that mirrored the ANH shot. Or so he could outsmart Kylo rather than fight him, in true Jedi fashion. Both of which are pretty weak reasons.

@Relic - as I said earlier, this was my thinking exactly. In fact, I think the throne room scene was where the movie started going completely wrong. I, too, thought Rey and Kylo would switch places as hero and villain, starting with that scene. That would have been original and ballsy.

Then, when they teamed up to fight Snoke's minions instead (which was a cool compensation), I thought they would decide to form a kind of truce and somehow try to mend the galaxy together (with Rey trying to keep Kylo in line, kinda like when Jessica Jones tries to harness Kilgrave's powers for good). That would also have been interesting.

But instead, they parted as hero and villain and stuck to those roles. The special connection between them isn't based on anything now. They have no relation, there's no romantic connection between them, and they have no reason to care about each other at this point. It won't make any sense for Rey to go all-in on trying to bring back Kylo from the dark side, like Luke did with Vader. But I'm sure that that's exactly what they'll try to go for anyway.

If Episode IX turns out to be good, it's going to be a miracle.

[Relic]

2 hours ago, dmc515 said:

If someone can cogently answer this, I will give them all the points.

M.H. had issues with this take on Luke, right? If so I totally understand why.  

 

I liked grumpy hermit Luke just fine at the start,  and up until his moment with Yoda. After that I wanted to see ass kicking Luke take down walkers, while living to partake in the next movie. Found his reunion with Leia to be very moving,  and definitely wanted more. 

[Relic]

1 hour ago, denstorebog said:

@Relic - as I said earlier, this was my thinking exactly. In fact, I think the throne room scene was where the movie started going completely wrong. I, too, thought Rey and Kylo would switch places as hero and villain, starting with that scene. That would have been original and ballsy.

Yeah, I totally agree, and it seemed for a moment like that was truly possible.

Snoke discards Ren, turns Rey, and the tables are totally flipped. Instead we get a weak return to status quo that leaves us with no real sympathy for Kylo, and makes Rey sort of a boring McGuffin. 

 

[Rhom]

5 minutes ago, Relic said:

M.H. had issues with this take on Luke, right? If so I totally understand why.  I liked grumpy hermit Luke just fine at the start,  and up until his moment with Yoda. After that I wanted to see ass kicking Luke take down walkers, while living to partake in the next movie. Found his reunion with Leia to be very moving,  and definitely wanted more. 

The whole time the speeders were going on their pointless suicide run at the walkers (seriously, what was their plan there???) I kept thinking we'd see Luke swoop down in his X-wing and blow up the cannon.  Even when we saw it was the Falcon that swooped in and we first saw the gunner underneath, I thought it would be Luke firing away and might even get a call back with him yelling up at Chewie "I got one!"

[Relic]

10 minutes ago, ljkeane said:

I assumed it was because he heard Leia's cry for help but there was no way he could physically get there in time so he astral projects himself or whatever.

I figured they showed his X-wing in the water for a reason, but i suppose it was just to fake us out with his projection at the end. 

[Relic]

Ugh, the more i think about the plot of this movie the less sense it makes. Still visually stunning, but is some substance too much to ask for these days? 

[Rhom]

1 minute ago, Relic said:

Yeah, I totally agree, and it seemed for a moment like that was truly possible. Snoke discards Ren, turns Rey, and the tables are totally flipped. Instead we get a weak return to status quo that leaves us with no real sympathy for Kylo, and makes Rey sort of a boring McGuffin. 

 

I think Kylo Ren's idea to burn it all down, Jedi/Sith/Republic/Empire and let the entire galaxy rise anew from the ashes could have had potential.  But then it turned to him wanting to rule the galaxy again.  

It could have been a nice contrast.  Ren wants to save the galaxy by destroying it while Rose tells Finn that we will save what we love.   

[Rhom]

7 hours ago, Kalbear said:

My favorite star wars movie. Ever. 

As I said in my original post, I think there was a lot of stuff to like in there; but I may have to think on it some more.

I'd like to hear what your thoughts are.

 

[DMC]

12 minutes ago, Relic said:

I liked grumpy hermit Luke just fine at the start,  and up until his moment with Yoda. After that I wanted to see ass kicking Luke take down walkers, while living to partake in the next movie. Found his reunion with Leia to be very moving,  and definitely wanted more. 

I was very much not a fan of the Yoda insert.  Seemed forced and borderline comical to me.  Agree with everything else.

[DMC]

22 minutes ago, denstorebog said:

Both of which are pretty weak reasons.

Heh.  I think we're in agreement here - in which case you do not win my game

[Rhom]

12 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

I was very much not a fan of the Yoda insert.  Seemed forced and borderline comical to me.  Agree with everything else.

When he first saw Yoda and then stepped past him to burn down the library, I thought he might encounter Ewan McGregor-Kenobi stepping out of there to confront him.

[Ran]

Folks, please bear in mind that your first paragraph will show up when someone uses the Unread Posts button to browse new posts in the forum. I'd suggest avoiding specific spoilers in the first paragraph. This goes for trying to use the spoiler code to hide it.

[DMC]

31 minutes ago, Rhom said:

I thought he might encounter Ewan McGregor-Kenobi stepping out of there to confront him.

Spoiler

I really, desperately hope Ewan-Wan Kenobi will find his way into the third offering.  As a significant character.  Also, I was jokingly saying this with friends before seeing the film last night - but what's up with no Lando/Billy Dee Williams?  Surely he at least deserves a cameo, right?

Ran - Sorry if I was the culprit there.

[Corvinus85]

About 9 hrs to go for me til I watch it. This is torture. 

Ok, I'm out of here.

[aceluby]

First viewing last night and I was seriously underwhelmed.  When I saw TFA I couldn't wait to get to the theater to see it again.  Now I have a 2nd viewing tonight and I'm not even looking forward to it that much.  And I LOVE Star Wars.  There were just so many bad choices made that the superior acting just couldn't overcome.  Most of the complaints have already been stated, but the two big ones for me is the Leia force space scene is probably the dumbest star wars scene ever thought of.  Holy shit was that just terrible.  The other is why go through all the trouble with Luke's final 'battle', just to have it be a force image and then kill the character off anyway?  It made zero sense.

I am looking forward to a Rey's Jedi Academy fight vs Knights of Ren in 9 though

[Slurktan]

So help me out here... I've been thinking about it.

One of the major themes of this movie deals with sacrifice.  Within the first ten minutes (or however long the first battle scene was) we get Leia coming down hard on Poe for being an idiot and sacrificing people for a short term goal.  Good establishes a clear theme early surely they will keep it up.  Next the captain of the medical frigate inexplicably stays with his ship and then Holdo sacrifices herself and the ship for a short term goal. (Know what would have been smarter?  After all the transports get off, use the last "fuel" for lightspeed and jump away.  the fake empire will follow you and kill you but fleet safe).  She does the same thing basically as Poe's plan early but she is lauded.  OK?  So I guess Leia was wrong and that's the point.  Next thing, Finn is going to sacrifice himself to blow up the mini death star battering ram, short term goal.  Rose rams him and saves and tells him that's not what they are supposed to do essentially and reaffirms what leia said earlier.  OK so the middle one was a red herring right?  Then Luke sacrifices himself so that the first order is distracted, the epitome of short term goal (plus it only did exactly what Finn is trying to do).  Lauded with a children's story that they inexplicably know at the end.

What?