The Last Jedi: Here There Be Spoilers

[Darth Richard II]

Er. Yeah, KoTor is old EU.

[AndrewJ]

Yeah - but if I recall correctly, there was something in Rebels which referred to something in KoToR. Which effectively brings that part of it into canon (as Rebels itself is part of the official canon).

People view that as being the first step of an intention to recognise all of KoToR as canon.

[Howdyphillip]

4 hours ago, dooog said:

The way you're going on, I wouldn't be surprised if you were using the same argument when Attack of the Clones came out.

I walked out of Attack of the Clones extremely satisfied. I have it ranked 8th as far as Star Wars movies goes which makes it my 8th favorite movies of all time. You can mock me for this if you would like, but I really couldn't give two shits about your opinion. It is fine to like or not like anything that you consume. It is also fine to share your opinion. What is not fine is to try and tell other people what they should or should not like.

 Also, the Wire is extremely over rated to me. I enjoyed it, but it is not in my top 20 TV shows. I am happy to hear opinions from people who disagree with me about this.

[SerHaHa]

5 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

Ezra would be much older if he's still around, closer to Luke's age.

The time frame of Rebels is just shortly before the battle of Yavin IIRC, season 4 being a single year before that.  That'd make Ezra 14 or so, and Luke in his early 20s, say 5 or 6 years older than Ezra.  Del Toro is 50, Mark Hamill what, 65 or so?  I don't think it's that big of a stretch, remove the 5/6 year difference between Ezra and Luke's character, Del Toro only needs to pass for late 50s to be believable as Ezra Bridger.  In fact TFA was stated in canon as being 30 years after the battle of Yavin, that'd make Luke a fair bit younger than Mark Hamill is IRL, at least 10 years.  That makes Del Toro almost exactly the right age to have been Bridger.

[Fiddler]

3 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

Regarding Snoke, Disney has a least one tv show in the works, possibly more, so they could sneak the backstory in that way.

I got a feeling we will see at least one book about Snoke.

As for the next movie, I could see them going a few different ways.

1.  Time jump.  Move the time forward 5-10 years.  Have the First Order more in control, but, as the empire found out, it is a big galaxy and "the more they tighten their grip, the more systems slip through their fingers".   They then have a reestablished rebellion with Poe, Fin and Rey as "legends/heroes".   The movie could be about the final group from Jedi finally making a last ditch effort to take out Kylo.  Starts with Rose and Fin on a water planet at some dive bar trying to make a deal with some shady characters for information.  They get the information and meet up with Poe.  They are then ambushed by the Order which leads to a nice chase see using some sort of water skimmer.  Ultimately saved as the Falcon swoops in and blasts the order.  Then Poe, Fin and Rose meet up with Rey and they discuss the information they found and decide it is the best chance to get at Kylo, so they set out to take him out.  Final epic space battle as a massive Rebellion fleet (filled with random ass ships) against the First Order fleet.  Poe can shine as he pilots and leads a force of hodge podge fighters in his X-wing.  All the while Fin, Rose and Rey are infiltrating Kylo's ship.  Cue final showdown between Fin and Phasma, Kylo and Rey and BB-8 and evil BB-8.

2.  A fast paced movie in which Kylo Ren is hunting the last remnants of the rebellion.  His actions become more ruthless and viscious as the movie continues and he is thwarted at all turns and the main cast continue to escape.  Finally, in the climatic ending, Kylo pens the heroes on jakku.  Great chase/battle with the Falcon, Poe's xwing and a bunch of tie fighets.  Then finally the confrontation between Kylo and Rey which takes place within the crashed star destroyer.  Kylo gets the upper hand and raises his saber for the final blow when he looks up and sees the ghosts of his father, mother and Luke, all of which look sad and disapointed.  This causes him to hesitate and Rey recovers and drives her blade into his chest.

3.  Rey, Fin and the rest of the heroes discover the First Order have decided to build a giant galaxy destroying base.  It's not quite done yet and they find out Kylo and Hux will both be on the base.  They then infiltrate have some massive fights.  Kylo dies in the end by Rey's hand.  Then the ultimate death of the series; Chewie uses the Falcon as kamikaze missile to crash into the center energy core of the base and takes out the entire Station.  <--lets be honest, this is probably pretty close to what someone is thinking right now, lol. 

[Davrum]

8 hours ago, Fiddler said:

Honestly.  I thought it was going to come out that Luke felt that it was his fault that Ben turned and he used the Force to wipe things from her.  Then he left her with someone he thought would care for her and left to seal himself off from the force.  Granted, it may not be a great theory, but it was what I was thinking.

Oooooh, some kind of mindwipe angle? In that case I do get why some folks may have thought she was related to Luke.

I'm stoked she wasn't though. To me the Galaxy Far, Far Away is infinitely more interesting if Force ability isn't tied to something as hack as bloodlines.

[denstorebog]

It's all well and fine to rehash the same old argument about whether it's the critics who are too nitpicky or the fans who are too forgiving. But seriously, I'm having a hard time understanding why so many people are happily defending a movie which, whether you like it or not

• shits all over the mysteries that were established by the previous movie
• has large segments that are demonstrably meaningless to the movie. Surely they didn't have to do that? TESB showed us that you can have parallel plots that affect each other and are thematically coherent.
• leaves the hero and the villain with no reason to want to do anything in the 3rd movie except pound each other to pieces with lightsabers

I mean, I can understand liking parts of TLJ, I certainly did too. I was pretty stoked during the throne room scene and the lightsaber fight because it felt like we were on the cusp of seeing something truly original. The pieces were in place for Rey and Ren to switch roles, and you would have had an insane starting point for a 2nd half of the movie and the 3rd movie of the trilogy. Or show Rey subverting the trope and actually joining Ren in the hope that she can work with him, and you maintain a connection between them that'll carry the 2nd half. Or at least let them fall in love or anything that'll serve as emotional fodder for the final stretch. Seriously, does anyone disagree that either of those would have been stronger choices than simply severing their connection and setting them up as hero and villain with no bond between them at all?

I'm not going to be a useful idiot for Disney and sit and pretend that they didn't fuck up from a narrative standpoint. How is that ever gonna make the next SW trilogy coherent or exciting, especially when it comes from the guy who just directed this confused mess? Again, lots to like for sure, but are there even any of the TLJ fans who are going to argue that the plot made sense and/or wasn't full of filler?

But no, let's call critics snobs and hate on them the because they're somehow ruining it for everyone else.

Fuck. The pieces were in place for a great SW trilogy here.

[Corvinus85]

I would have been upset if Kylo and/or Rey turned. Kylo doesn't just simply get to walk back after killing his dad, and having no problems with ordering the execution of innocents. At best, I could have seen Kylo turning on Snoke, but becoming a separate player.

Rey, who grew up on a harsh world where she had to learn to fend for herself, shows altruism and a desire to help the weak from the beginning (twice she saves BB-8 and doesn't want to sell him). This is not the kind of person who just turns to the dark side because of some telepathic conversations.

[Bastard of Boston]

I'm surprised at the amount of gripes I see about Leia's space jaunt in this movie. It seems the general gripe is from a story perspective -- people think she shouldn't have been that adept at using the Force. However, there is something to be said for flight or fight response. Her save didn't bother me at all. I interpreted it as her body willing her to survive. Maybe if she consciously attempted it again, she wouldn't even be able to.

[Werthead]

Quote

 

Yeah - but if I recall correctly, there was something in Rebels which referred to something in KoToR. Which effectively brings that part of it into canon (as Rebels itself is part of the official canon).

People view that as being the first step of an intention to recognise all of KoToR as canon.

 

Yup, along with the Story Group taking over The Old Republic's narrative direction, this is regarded as a step towards bringing the entire Old Republic story arc into canon, including KotOR I and II.

They haven't fully pulled the trigger on that yet though. Right now, officially, KotOR I and II are Legends and thus non-canon, and The Old Republic's status is ambiguous.

[Corvinus85]

7 hours ago, SerHaHa said:

The time frame of Rebels is just shortly before the battle of Yavin IIRC, season 4 being a single year before that.  That'd make Ezra 14 or so, and Luke in his early 20s, say 5 or 6 years older than Ezra.  Del Toro is 50, Mark Hamill what, 65 or so?  I don't think it's that big of a stretch, remove the 5/6 year difference between Ezra and Luke's character, Del Toro only needs to pass for late 50s to be believable as Ezra Bridger.  In fact TFA was stated in canon as being 30 years after the battle of Yavin, that'd make Luke a fair bit younger than Mark Hamill is IRL, at least 10 years.  That makes Del Toro almost exactly the right age to have been Bridger.

Ezra is very close in age to Luke, as we see him with Leia in season 2. I think they may even be the same age. And Del Toro's character never lent me to believe he was Ezra. In fact, I kinda wish Del Toro's character didn't exist, after that performance.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

Anyone else notice the Gareth Edwards cameo? There’s a rebel who picks up some salt on the planet and the guy next to him is Edwards.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

3 hours ago, Bastard of Boston said:

I'm surprised at the amount of gripes I see about Leia's space jaunt in this movie. It seems the general gripe is from a story perspective -- people think she shouldn't have been that adept at using the Force. However, there is something to be said for flight or fight response. Her save didn't bother me at all. I interpreted it as her body willing her to survive. Maybe if she consciously attempted it again, she wouldn't even be able to.

I just thought it looked very silly.

Sorry for the double post. I’m on my phone so editing quotes in is annoying.

[SerHaHa]

2 hours ago, Corvinus said:

Ezra is very close in age to Luke, as we see him with Leia in season 2. I think they may even be the same age. And Del Toro's character never lent me to believe he was Ezra. In fact, I kinda wish Del Toro's character didn't exist, after that performance.

He's 5 years younger, I checked again, you can Google it too if you like.  Season 4 Ezra is stated as being 14 years old, and Season 4 is 1 year before the Battle of Yavin.  Luke Skywalker is stated in current canon to be 19.  So, very close, in later years, but again, TFA is stated as being 30 years after Yavin, which would make Luke 49.  Del Toro being 50, all I'm saying, is that his age wouldn't have been out there at all for playing a 44 year old Ezra, actors to +/- double digits all the time, much less just 5 years.

I agree, I wish he hadn't existed in the film in many ways, and feel that it would have been better FOR them to go the Ezra route, than just some code breaker/thief character that didn't do much of anything.

[Mexal]

I thought it was great. I get some of the gripes, I just don't care. I actually enjoyed that the Casino plot was all for naught as I'm somewhat tired of long shot plans of infiltration working. 

[Darth Richard II]

10 hours ago, SerHaHa said:

The time frame of Rebels is just shortly before the battle of Yavin IIRC, season 4 being a single year before that.  That'd make Ezra 14 or so, and Luke in his early 20s, say 5 or 6 years older than Ezra.  Del Toro is 50, Mark Hamill what, 65 or so?  I don't think it's that big of a stretch, remove the 5/6 year difference between Ezra and Luke's character, Del Toro only needs to pass for late 50s to be believable as Ezra Bridger.  In fact TFA was stated in canon as being 30 years after the battle of Yavin, that'd make Luke a fair bit younger than Mark Hamill is IRL, at least 10 years.  That makes Del Toro almost exactly the right age to have been Bridger.

I thought luke was supposed to be 16-17ish in ANH, but it's been ages since I thought about it.

 

Edit: I see you looked it up for me, interesting. I'd love to see Ezra in the films.

[Darth Richard II]

4 hours ago, Werthead said:

Yup, along with the Story Group taking over The Old Republic's narrative direction, this is regarded as a step towards bringing the entire Old Republic story arc into canon, including KotOR I and II.

They haven't fully pulled the trigger on that yet though. Right now, officially, KotOR I and II are Legends and thus non-canon, and The Old Republic's status is ambiguous.

Yay! I think!

[Derfel Cadarn]

4 hours ago, Werthead said:

Yup, along with the Story Group taking over The Old Republic's narrative direction, this is regarded as a step towards bringing the entire Old Republic story arc into canon, including KotOR I and II.

They haven't fully pulled the trigger on that yet though. Right now, officially, KotOR I and II are Legends and thus non-canon, and The Old Republic's status is ambiguous.

The Old Republic's producers state its not canon.  The story groups involvement is really just them protecting the integrity of the licence.  CBS have to greenlight everything with star trek online but that doesnt make it canon.

I suspect it wont be made canon but they wont do anything to contradict it.

I'd love it if the next animated series was kotor, starting with the Mando war.

[polishgenius]

I thought it was cracking. Way better than TFA. Not sure if I'll end up liking it more than Rogue One because I liked that loads initially but haven't felt the urge to rewatch it, so I'd have to see both again before. But both were better for taking a slightly darker look at SW (like ESB), and also, both were absolutely gorgeous visually, better cinematically than even the OT. I mean, Last Jedi was stunning to look at.

Yeah, there were portions where the plot didn't make sense, but it didn't bother me nearly as much as TFA's in-your-face wrongness. The only one that really causes a problem going forward is the hyperspace jump, and (1) I reckon there are ways to handwave that- the attacking ship has to be of a particular mass for it to work, we can't waste ships on sacrifice plays - and (2) it looked so fucking incredible that I forgive it just for that. Someone mentioned it earlier, maybe the best shot of the entire saga.

The casino plot was pointless but was rescued by BDT and the failure/his betrayal at the end.

One thing that all of us who saw it agreed on coming out was that the final act, defending the planet, had some great moments in it (mention more on that in a sec) and looked pretty as shit too, but didn't really fit, structurally, in this movie. The hyperspace jump attack and escaping down to the planet would have been a natural end.




Luke was brilliant. Hamill nailed it. His showdown with Ren was cracking, and I loved the clue in the shifting of their feet where Luke wasn't leaving a mark as he did so. Like Wert, I read him becoming a force ghost as simply having expended too much energy.

The resolution of the Rey/Ren plot was a little disappointing- I was hoping for more shades of grey- but I loved the balance of it till then. The throne room scene was great up until it went all 'nah I'm just gonna take over join me'.




But anyway, overall, I really enjoyed it.

[A True Kaniggit]

So were the little bird things begging food from Chewie? That was my first impression. Or were they just sad he was eating one of their own? I really hope they didn't guilt our favorite Wookie out of a well earned meal.