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What is Your Definition of A Fair and Just Society ?


GAROVORKIN

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And in this  age political polarization, is such a thing still even achievable anymore ? I know this  a very unexciting question but, given the types political dialogue and and opinions   that ive observed here and in other places , I figured that it might perhaps  be worth a topic thread.

Thoughts? 

 

 

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Robot socialism a la The Culture with a heavy emphasis on space exploration would be my preference, but lacking that I'm in favor of the idea of the "social floor": society does not let you fall below a certain level of suffering, and thus works to guarantee at least a minimum level of access to work, housing, food, etc. It's why I'm in favor of either a Job Guarantee or a Basic Income.

Also, I'd like this to be done with clean energy and electricity instead of fossil fuels, and with minimal pollution.

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On 12/19/2017 at 5:48 PM, Fall Bass said:

Robot socialism a la The Culture with a heavy emphasis on space exploration would be my preference, but lacking that I'm in favor of the idea of the "social floor": society does not let you fall below a certain level of suffering, and thus works to guarantee at least a minimum level of access to work, housing, food, etc. It's why I'm in favor of either a Job Guarantee or a Basic Income.

Also, I'd like this to be done with clean energy and electricity instead of fossil fuels, and with minimal pollution.

yeah, though this does not go nearly far enough for me, this is basically it. however i would prefer we look at the de-commodification of basic essentials (housing, food, healthcare, hat, electricity, internet, education, transportation, and education) over a ubi, which i feel would be too easy to reverse with a shitty conservative government. 

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29 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

A society where there is harsh and swift judgment for people who would dare to ruin a perfectly good pie by putting pineapple on it.

:cheers:

If anything you’re being too lenient with these heathens. Pineappling a pizza is a serious offense that only a lizard person would commit.  

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On 19/12/2017 at 5:07 AM, KiDisaster said:

Fully automated luxury gay space communism, and nothing less. 

Works for me 8) :commie:

1 hour ago, The Great Unwashed said:

A society where there is harsh and swift judgment for people who would dare to ruin a perfectly good pie by putting pineapple on it.

Pizza isn't pie; this is pie. Pineapple does go great on pizza, though. :P

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4 hours ago, The Great Unwashed said:

A society where there is harsh and swift judgment for people who would dare to ruin a perfectly good pie by putting pineapple on it.

Give me pineapple, bacon and jalapeño or give me death. :fencing:

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32 minutes ago, Robin Of House Hill said:

You want substance, here it is.  A society totally free of conservatism in any form.  Because all conservatism, be it, political, economic, social, or religious, is predicated on denying something to some segment of society.

What would be the result of zero conservatism? Endless change? 

Anyway, my answer to the OP, my serious answer would be that any society that provides equality of opportunity for everyone is probably the fairest we will ever get.

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1 hour ago, Eggegg said:

What would be the result of zero conservatism? Endless change? 

Anyway, my answer to the OP, my serious answer would be that any society that provides equality of opportunity for everyone is probably the fairest we will ever get.

If the change was for the betterment of all, would that be so bad?

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1 minute ago, Robin Of House Hill said:

If the change was for the betterment of all, would that be so bad?

But then when everything was as you wanted it if you didn’t have conservative policies you’d end up changing it all again, probably back to how it was! 

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1 hour ago, Eggegg said:

Anyway, my answer to the OP, my serious answer would be that any society that provides equality of opportunity for everyone is probably the fairest we will ever get.

Focusing only on opportunity with no concern for outcomes is problematic. Eg giving everyone equal opportunity to go through law school and get a ridiculously high-paid job, while those who don't take advantage of that opportunity are stuck with insecure minimum wage jobs, doesn't strike me as particularly fair. We don't want a society composed entirely of lawyers! Equitable distribution of resources is essential for fairness. It seems reasonable for those who work harder than others (in any field) to get a somewhat bigger share, but nothing remotely close to the huge disparities our current society has.

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9 minutes ago, felice said:

Focusing only on opportunity with no concern for outcomes is problematic. Eg giving everyone equal opportunity to go through law school and get a ridiculously high-paid job, while those who don't take advantage of that opportunity are stuck with insecure minimum wage jobs, doesn't strike me as particularly fair. We don't want a society composed entirely of lawyers! Equitable distribution of resources is essential for fairness. It seems reasonable for those who work harder than others (in any field) to get a somewhat bigger share, but nothing remotely close to the huge disparities our current society has.

That makes the massive assumption that everyone would firstly want to spent their time working hard to become lawyers, and secondly that everyone would be naturally good at it. 

The good thing about equality of opportunity is that people get out of life what they put in. 

Id also say that equal distribution of resources, depending on what you meant by that, could be incredibly unfair: if I sat on my arse all day why should I have access to the same things as someone who contributes massively to society?

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47 minutes ago, Eggegg said:

But then when everything was as you wanted it if you didn’t have conservative policies you’d end up changing it all again, probably back to how it was! 

I think there are two misconceptions, there.  First, you seem to think that progressives want change for its own sake.  Second, you seem to think it is never possible to improve on what exists.

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