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The Last Jedi, not the last spoiler thread


mormont

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1 hour ago, A True Kaniggit said:

 

So it was already established in the first movie released that objects in real space and objects in hyperspace do interact. 

The explanation that has been used in the EU -- and which, per Werthead, seems to have become fitfully "canon" (if we ignore TFA) -- is that large masses cast gravity "shadows" in hyperspace and thus have to be navigated around because trying to cross the shadow is apparently pretty destructive to your vessel. You aren't literally zipping through real space and risking running into planets or supernovas. That said, it's not been suggested that any particular mass in space would be dangerous, otherwise, well, it wouldn't be safe to go into hyperspace at all; only massive ... uh, masses, like planets, are a real danger. So the fact that Holdo's ship appears to still be in real space as the hyperdrive engages is... well, not how things have worked. I mean, stuff like the occasional engagement of hyperdrives while still within atmosphere (pretty much exclusive to the Disney-helmed movies) should have destroyed ships...

Anyways. Maybe if they had given Holdo some sort of background as a wizard mathematician or physicist who ended up compelled to become a military officer, they could have done something with the idea that she had come up with some obscure bit of hyperspace theory that could have enabled a flash of recognition of how to weaponize a ship going to lightspeed. And, hey, could even have explained why we never see it again -- the secret of it died with her, and no one x can come up with it again (at least not within the post-OT timeframe Disney is exploring).

But, nah. Setup is hard. Explanation is hard. Audiences want novelty, not carefully crafted stories.

 

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3 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Take ESB: The falcon travels from Hoth system to Bespin without a hyperdrive, which should take years even if its the next system.  Handwaved away while people complain about the lightspeed ram.

Or months if the systems are a lot closer together than Sol and Alpha Centauri, which is entirely possible. Subjectively a lot less if the Falcon accelerates to near light speed in normal space, giving Luke lots of time to train on Dagobah while rather less time appears to pass for Han and Leia. Lucas and co probably just didn't care about scientific accuracy, but it fits rather neatly.

And the lightspeed ram is a problem with internal story logic, not with real world physics. If it can be done, why isn't it done more often? Eg they could have rammed the Starkiller oscillator with a single x-wing, without evening needing to disable the shields first.

3 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

The rebels escaping Hoth - why didnt the multiple star destroyers (including a SSD) deploy squadrons of TIE's to blockade the planet and destroy the fleeing rebels?

It shouldn't have been necessary. The Imperial forces came out of lightspeed to close to Hoth, alerting the rebels and giving them time to evacuate before the ground assault could take out the ion cannon. Force choking ensues. Perhaps not launching fighters after their initial plan went wrong was an oversight, or perhaps the ion cannon could disable whole squadrons of TIEs with each shot?

3 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Hell, in ANH why didnt Vader's star destroyer escort the Death Star to intercept any fleeing rebels while the Death Star took 20 mins to grt in position?

It wasn't there and they had no reason to think they'd need it? There were TIEs on the Death Star that could have been sent after fleeing rebels.

3 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Why did Leia - who withstood torture and even deceived Tarkin while Alderaan was in the Death Star's sights to protect the Yavib base location lead the Empire right there?  She said herself the ship was beibg tracked, why not find and remove the tracker, or switch to another ship?  The Imps had no idea where the base was, there was no rush to destroy the Death Star.  Certainly not st the expense of leading them right to Yavin.

The Empire had demonstrated its willingness to use the Death Star casually; I think that does indeed make destroying it urgent. And getting the plans to the rebels is essential; stopping to find another ship or search for the tracker risks the Empire showing up and killing them all.

3 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Yet these issues are waved away while TLJ's somehow make it the worst SW film ever.  If people dont like it, thats fine. Taste is different. But to dislike a SW film for having the same kind of issues as every other SW film is strange.

Lots of different things contribute to TLJ being a disappointing SW film.

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25 minutes ago, Fall Bass said:

The point of Finn and Rose's detour was that it was a disastrous plan that ultimately made things worse, which was the whole point of Poe's character arc this movie.

True, but that doesn't change the fact that it ground the momentum of the film to a screeching halt midway through. 

A truly well-told story maintains forward momentum throughout. Finn and Rose's detour, while entertaining enough in its own right, felt like a random side quest from the get go. I distinctly remember rolling my eyes as soon as Maz told them they'd have to retrieve this codebreaker from a different system.

I do believe this might have worked better had it not been for the low-speed chase plot device, which itself was questionable for many reasons.

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25 minutes ago, aceluby said:

Can I take that bet?  Even my mom wondered who Rey's parents were going to be coming out of the theater.  It was literally the biggest open question left by the film.  I'm seriously wondering how you missed that.

I'll second this.  I sat in a packed lobby as an early show let (Force awakens that is) and the buzz you could hear from every corner was "Rey is Luke's daughter, right?"  That was all people were talking about.

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1 hour ago, Eggegg said:

Ray's parenthood, Snoke's irrelevance and Leia superman flying skills are all moments that many people are up in arms about around the internet, and I agree they all pretty much take a dump on the story, but I also agree that those problems are trivial compared to the extremely long run time, Finn and Rose's detour, the out of place humour and  the fact that really nothing of consequence has changed during this movie.

 

I think you have to add how many things the movie copied from other movies of the franchiese and that at least for me it was rather boring to see grumpy luke for a hour instead of an interesting luke

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2 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Since Disney now own 20th Century Fox, does this mean we can now get the distinctive fanfare?

After wondering whether X-Men would enter the MCU, this was my second thought about the buyout. :) 

 

I still get excited when ever I hear that fanfare no matter what movie is starting, usually leaning over to whisper to my wife, "Star Wars."

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2 hours ago, mormont said:

I think you're wrong about that. I'd be prepared to bet cash money that most who saw the movie didn't walk out pondering theories about Rey's parents being a known character like Luke.

That's a strong generalization equally as flawed as the other. Anecdotal as my next comment is, everyone in my family and workplace friends have all wondered the identify of Rey's parents. It was my 10 year old's fist comment walking out of TLJ.

Rey's parents was not as large a question as, say, Jon Snow's parents, but still an open question a significant amount of people wanted answered. Not just the internet folk.

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1 minute ago, Myrddin said:

That's a strong generalization equally as flawed as the other. Anecdotal as my next comment is, everyone in my family and workplace friends have all wondered the identify of Rey's parents. It was my 10 year old's fist comment walking out of TLJ.

Rey's parents was not as large a question as, say, Jon Snow's parents, but still an open question a significant amount of people wanted answered. Not just the internet folk.

I'd argue John Snow's parentage was WAY lower on the give-a-shit-o-meter than Rey's after the 1st season of GoT.

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4 minutes ago, aceluby said:

I'd argue John Snow's parentage was WAY lower on the give-a-shit-o-meter than Rey's after the 1st season of GoT.

I'd rate Jon higher only because of

it puts him in line for the Iron Throne

Rey can be a force wielder with or without known parentage. While I kind of like the idea that they were truly no body and everything that implies, it's not very "Star Wars." Anakin's parentage stemmed directly from the Force (or maybe orchestrated by Plageius). Luke and Leia were secret children of The Chosen One (tm). It's not a stretch to expect Rey to also be from some significant bloodline/origin. 

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12 minutes ago, aceluby said:

I'd argue John Snow's parentage was WAY lower on the give-a-shit-o-meter than Rey's after the 1st season of GoT.

No question. 

I'd go a step further and say the first few seasons of GoT arguably didn't have any scenes as pointed toward the mystery of Jon's parents as the scene beneath Maz's cantina in TFA was for the question of Rey's.

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16 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

So this movie is bad cause its not like the other movies but also because its like the other movies?

To me this movie is bad because it copied too much of the previous movies, has continuity errors with TFA, the casino plot, luke arc was simply anoying and out of character, rey parents and snooke were major letdowns, too few jedi fights and on the whole it fails to deliver something epic and satisfying that the OT always did and even the PT always tried.

I mean, the rey ren conflict feels epic at this point to anyone?

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1 hour ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Does her parentage matter?

That's not what's being discussed, but whether TFA led us to believe it did.

Can't believe we're even having that argument. Can we please use the anecdotal evidence all over this thread that people were wondering about her parentage after TFA, and move on? Because then we can start talking about how ridiculous it is that JJ and Johnson apparently weren't working from a cohesive master plan.

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27 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

So this movie is bad cause its not like the other movies but also because its like the other movies?

It’s bad for a myriad of reasons. One being that it’s tonally completely inconsistent, the humour falls flat most of the time and tonally doesn’t really sit all that well with the OT, as it’s far sillier and childish then the worst moments of humour even in RotJ. 

At the same time the story is really just a retread of the OT with some small changes which are being held up as clever twists on the genre. 

But there could be a thread long list of the problems with this movie even outside of these 

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Just now, denstorebog said:

That's not what's being discussed, but whether TFA led us to believe it did.

Can't believe we're even having that argument.

Me neither. I didn’t care about her parentage but TFA definitely teased that it was relevant and important, there is no debating that.

However I like that she is just a nobody, there is something interesting in that.

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13 minutes ago, Ferrum Aeternum said:

No question. 

I'd go a step further and say the first few seasons of GoT arguably didn't have any scenes as pointed toward the mystery of Jon's parents as the scene beneath Maz's cantina in TFA was for the question of Rey's.

Man... that was SUCH a good scene.  Probably my favorite so far of the new ones.

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8 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

You can't have it both ways. It's either too much like the OT or it's too much not like the OT. It can't be both.

I didn't get an OT vibe at all.  Reviews were stating over and over again how much it was like Empire and I just didn't see it.  For all the dialog dedicated to how 'hopeless' everything was, I never got that feeling.

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4 minutes ago, aceluby said:

Man... that was SUCH a good scene.  Probably my favorite so far of the new ones.

Indeed, it was a great scene and one that the filmmakers had to have known would drive intense speculation.

I still believe there's a possibility KR was wrong in his interpretation of Rey's parentage. Johnson I believe said in an interview that KR "wasn't lying" about what he saw, which wasn't exactly a confirmation.

One thing's for certain - this controversy is creating tremendous buzz. Some little cynical part of me says they planned it this way, especially considering JJ will be back for IX (implying that perhaps the ideas he brought up in that scene in TFA will bear fruit after all). 

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