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The Last Jedi, not the last spoiler thread


mormont

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Mark Hamill on Johnson's treatment of Luke in this film:

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“I said to Rian, ‘Jedi’s don’t give up,’” said Hamill. “I mean, even if he had a problem, he would maybe take a year to try and regroup. But if he made a mistake, he would try and right that wrong. So, right there we had a fundamental difference, but it’s not my story anymore, it’s somebody else’s story – and Rian needed me to be a certain way to make the ending effective. That’s the crux of my problem. Luke would never say that. I’m sorry. Well, in this version, see I’m talking about the George Lucas Star Wars, this is the next generation of Star Wars, so I almost had to think of Luke as another character. Maybe he’s Jake Skywalker. He’s not my Luke Skywalker, but I had to do what Rian wanted me to do because it serves the story well. But listen, I still haven’t accepted it completely. But it’s only a movie. I hope people like it. I hope they don’t get upset, and I came to really believe that Rian was the exact man that they needed for this job.

Rian Johnson's reply and suggestion of Luke's return in the next film:

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“It wasn’t the thing he wanted to necessarily hear. Understandably so. Mark had all these years to think what Luke’s triumphant return would be. Luke’s the hero coming back into this story, and the fact that this character and this movie could not be that — this character in this movie was by necessity what he had to be, and also in relation to Rey, that brought its own necessity.”

And finally, Johnson also revealed that he expects to see Luke back in Star Wars: Episode IX, although he doesn’t have any input into where the character might go next: “I’m not sure what J.J. Abrams and [screenwriter] Chris Terrio are going to do in the next one with Luke, but setting up possibilities for the next one, honestly, it seems much like Obi-Wan going where he did after A New Hope. The possibilities seemed even more exciting in terms of what Luke’s place could be in the next chapter with him entering into this other realm as opposed to him having a lightsaber and being with our heroes. It opened more possibilities as opposed to fewer.”

Finally, I was interested to learn that there was apparently " a massive sequence between Rey and Luke " cut from the film that will on the bluray. Rian Johnson:

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And then on the island there’s a massive sequence that we shot with Daisy and Mark, which is kind of an additional sort of trial/test that she goes through, that involves her and Mark, and then a big emotional scene between the two of them. I mean, it’s big stuff, it’s like actual real scenes.

Cannot fathom why that was cut given that I felt the film was short on exactly this.

But, it was all about subverting expectations, must remember that.

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49 minutes ago, Calibandar said:

Mark Hamill on Johnson's treatment of Luke in this film:

Rian Johnson's reply and suggestion of Luke's return in the next film:

Finally, I was interested to learn that there was apparently " a massive sequence between Rey and Luke " cut from the film that will on the bluray. Rian Johnson:

Cannot fathom why that was cut given that I felt the film was short on exactly this.

But, it was all about subverting expectations, must remember that.

I believe this is one of the deleted scenes, among others. If it's true, I'm actually happy it didn't make the cut. http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-the-last-jedi-deleted-scenes/

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2 hours ago, Astromech said:

I believe this is one of the deleted scenes, among others. If it's true, I'm actually happy it didn't make the cut. http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-the-last-jedi-deleted-scenes/

I tend to agree. I was expecting the 3rd lesson to deal with balance, but the part with Luke lying to Rey about the situation was too much.

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I've never tried to make a feature film myself so maybe there's some way this makes sense, but why in Cthulhu's name would you write a script worth 180+ minutes if you're trying to make a movie of around 130 minutes?

How can that not leave the film feeling disjointed (as The Last Jedi does) when you inevitably have to chop out entire scenes?

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When this film comes to Redbox, that's when this thread's distant grandchild will be visited by my delayed rage, probably.   Until then, enjoy the "spoilers."    StarWars is now like a B movie franchise that isn't worth risking theater money on.   It's worth a buck, though.  And Rogue was worth like $4.18!  But the main series?   Just knowing that Abrams has been allowed back in tells me the future has been depantsed.

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12 hours ago, Astromech said:

I believe this is one of the deleted scenes, among others. If it's true, I'm actually happy it didn't make the cut. http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-the-last-jedi-deleted-scenes/

Ouch! That looks very much like more Rian Johnson/Kathleen Kennedy bullshit take on Luke and indeed, better that that was removed.

They really did not want him to shine did they? Also Johnson's explanations about how Luke's role is what it is because this is now Rey's trilogy is worthless and deplorable. They could have easily co-existed and both had a strong role in this film.

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6 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

Classy.

I think Hamil is as conflicted on the film as the fandom, and trying to use that interview to support either side is fruitless.

I agree! I think the only people who'll have trouble with the interview are absolutists who claim he hates the whole thing or that in fact his words indicate total joy. 

The deleted scenes... yeah, glad they removed some of those.

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On 23/12/2017 at 9:23 PM, House Balstroko said:

Agreed. Stover’s adaptation was far better than the movie. Anakin’s turn makes a lot more sense as his motivation is explained better. I find the dialogue vastly superior with far less cringeworthy moments around (I was some of those sc ends were in the movie). It’s bigest weakness overall is that it is still bound by the story Lucas came up with, so it carries over some of those weaknesses.

The choice of Dooku as the POV character for the fight leading to his death was inspired.

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And then on the island there’s a massive sequence that we shot with Daisy and Mark, which is kind of an additional sort of trial/test that she goes through, that involves her and Mark, and then a big emotional scene between the two of them. I mean, it’s big stuff, it’s like actual real scenes.

 

There is another sequence that was definitely 100% shot which was cut, which is weird because it sounds like it would have completely changed the plot of the film. In this sequence Kylo Ren and the Knights of Ren show up on Irish Training Planet and have a huge fight with Luke and Rey but it sounds like are driven off. This is weird because they definitely shot the scene - it had wirework, Adam Driver was at the location and so on - but I can't fathom how it fitted into the story at all unless they massively changed the plot mid-shoot.

 

 

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Just to clarify, some local in Ireland reported this? That's the proof? I'm not saying it didn't happen, but some evidence of Driver being there for filming would be interesting. And actually, given the scene in the hut, Driver being on the island wasn't necessarily proof of anything...

 

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I read an interesting comment, elsewhere on the Internet:

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But it turns out they [Rey's parents/family] don't matter. Not because they don't return, but because they aren't characters we know about. And that's a pretty terrible thing to say. The theme of the movie caves in on itself here.

It says, anyone can make a difference. Anyone can use the force. Everyone has something to say. But not Rey's parents, because they aren't characters we aren't somehow familiar with.

 

Rey's parents may be nobodies to everyone else (assuming Kylo wasn't lying or mistaken, and Rey's apparent acceptance of this is worth more than her earlier firm belief she had to wait on Jakku for her family's return), but they should still have meaning to Rey herself.

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1. I unashamedly loved it. I thought it was good fun entertainment.  Yeah there were plot holes - so what. I went to a Star Wars movies, not an installment of The Godfather trilogy (which frankly has its own plot holes). 

2. No one will convince me that the Star Wars films are anything but high fantasy. There was even a sea serpent in this one! So, you know, I suspend my disbelief and replace with magic  

3. I agree the Finn/Rose scenes were the weakest bits. But they were still fun and part of the set up. 

4. I liked that both Kylo Ren and Luke were set up as unreliable narrators potentially. 

5. I note that both Rey and Ren saw the other turn as potential future. Was Ren’s turn Snoke or is there something more complex coming?  Will Rey turn? I mean I agree with others that the Jedi weren’t exactly what you want to rebuild. 

6. I liked that Rey’s parents are no one in particular. Anyone read The Chronicles of Prydain as a child?  There was a whole volume dedicated to Taran finding who his  parents were. All you get in the end is him looking in a mirror - he is no one in particular from no where in particular. Very similar, including set up. 

7. Right before Luke evoprayed, when he was staring at the suns did anyone else see what looked like a ship crossing the suns?

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40 minutes ago, Wouter said:

I read an interesting comment, elsewhere on the Internet:

Rey's parents may be nobodies to everyone else (assuming Kylo wasn't lying or mistaken, and Rey's apparent acceptance of this is worth more than her earlier firm belief she had to wait on Jakku for her family's return), but they should still have meaning to Rey herself.

If my parents sold me, I would also call them nobodies.

 

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12 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

If my parents sold me, I would also call them nobodies.

 

Did they? In The Force Awakens, very young Rey was shown crying while watching a ship take off into space. It was heavily implied her parents, or guardians/family at least, were on it. Afterwards, she was convinced her family would return. If she knew all the time who her parents actually were, why the utterly misleading vision (junkies who had to sell her for their addiction wouldn't have money to go on such a flight, especially not if they also died on Jakku, as Kylo stated) and why the waiting? If anything, she should have been angry and dismissive of her parents if she knew all along. She should have absolutely jumped on Han's job offer, for example.

Since it's quite clear that the writing of ep7 and ep8 wasn't coordinated much, ep9 could turn everything on its head again. Rian Johnson has already indicated that much: for him Kylo told the truth as he saw it, but Abrams can do it with it what he wants in the next movie.

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11 minutes ago, Wouter said:

Did they? In The Force Awakens, very young Rey was shown crying while watching a ship take off into space. It was heavily implied her parents, or guardians/family at least, were on it. Afterwards, she was convinced her family would return. If she knew all the time who her parents actually were, why the utterly misleading vision (junkies who had to sell her for their addiction wouldn't have money to go on such a flight, especially not if they also died on Jakku, as Kylo stated) and why the waiting? If anything, she should have been angry and dismissive of her parents if she knew all along. She should have absolutely jumped on Han's job offer, for example.

Since it's quite clear that the writing of ep7 and ep8 wasn't coordinated much, ep9 could turn everything on its head again. Rian Johnson has already indicated that much: for him Kylo told the truth as he saw it, but Abrams can do it with it what he wants in the next movie.

She was a child. I interpreted that they sold her to Unklar Plut, that doesn't mean she understood what was happening.

Of course a child would convince herself they were coming back, and delusions can become quite powerful as time goes on.

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3 hours ago, Werthead said:

There is another sequence that was definitely 100% shot which was cut, which is weird because it sounds like it would have completely changed the plot of the film. In this sequence Kylo Ren and the Knights of Ren show up on Irish Training Planet and have a huge fight with Luke and Rey but it sounds like are driven off.

Sounds dubious, but the article linked earlier does say that broom kid was added to the main Canto Bight sequence in reshoots. It's not clear whether the very last scene of the film was also a late addition or they just decided it needed more setup, but if it was the former, then it doesn't seem entirely implausible that the story underwent radical changes during filming.

27 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

2. No one will convince me that the Star Wars films are anything but high fantasy. There was even a sea serpent in this one! So, you know, I suspend my disbelief and replace with magic  

I expect magic to follow its own internal rules, though, however odd they might be, and I prefer fantasy to aim for a certain degree of realism when dealing with things not directly involving magic.

27 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

7. Right before Luke evoprayed, when he was staring at the suns did anyone else see what looked like a ship crossing the suns?

Yep. I was expecting it to come closer so we could see what it was. Could have been just a glitch of some kind, but it seems unlikely that something like that wouldn't have been noticed and fixed. I suppose it could have been Ken and the knights arriving for the alleged deleted scene mentioned above!

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