Why did the Tullys side with Robert Baratheon?

[UFT]

as it is, half the riverlands stayed royalist. and unlike starks or baratheons, rhaegar and aerys hadn't personally done anything to them. 

the tullys only exist as a major house because of targaryens, so why betray rhaegar and rhaella? tyrells didn't and they also owe everything to house targaryen. they were offered marriages, but they could have just as easily said piss off. whats robert going to do, attack riverrun?  to me it makes no sense tullys rebelled yet mace tyrell did not.

of course i know why, storywise. the baratheons, starks and arryns couldnt have defeated rhaegar by themselves. but the knights of the trident rode with them. 

 

[Ralphis Baratheon]

They received two marriages to Lord's of Kingdoms. Walder Frey did the same thing with Robb Stark. 

[Jaehaerys Tyrell]

3 minutes ago, UFT said:

as it is, half the riverlands stayed royalist. and unlike starks or baratheons, rhaegar and aerys hadn't personally done anything to them. 

the tullys only exist as a major house because of targaryens, so why betray rhaegar and rhaella? tyrells didn't and they also owe everything to house targaryen. they were offered marriages, but they could have just as easily said piss off. whats robert going to do, attack riverrun?  to me it makes no sense tullys rebelled yet mace tyrell did not.

of course i know why, storywise. the baratheons, starks and arryns couldnt have defeated rhaegar by themselves. but the knights of the trident rode with them. 

 

Because Aerys II killed Brandon Stark, the betrothed of Catelyn Tully. By joining the STAB alliance, Hoster secured marriages with lords paramount for his two daughters. What we would he get in return for siding with the Targaryens? The last betrothal between a Targaryen and a Tully was broken. I side with the Targaryens in Robert’s Rebellion, but Lord Hoster had his reasons. 

[UFT]

Quote

 

 What we would he get in return for siding with the Targaryens? 

being alive. they could have said "piss off, you're dead when barristan, randyll and rhaegar get here". and like i said, they owe everything to targaryens. they owe nothing to an upjumped little uprising that might just get slaughtered (and would have been if mace was halfway competant). even the freys knew this and hedged their bets until it looked like the rebels will win. 

"hey i owe everything to you. and the prince by all acounts is a wonderful guy. but lets immediately betray him for someone who probably has no chance anyway".

whats robert going to do, siege riverrun? amazing idea.

[Anck Su Namun]

7 minutes ago, UFT said:

as it is, half the riverlands stayed royalist. and unlike starks or baratheons, rhaegar and aerys hadn't personally done anything to them. 

the tullys only exist as a major house because of targaryens, so why betray rhaegar and rhaella? tyrells didn't and they also owe everything to house targaryen. they were offered marriages, but they could have just as easily said piss off. whats robert going to do, attack riverrun?  to me it makes no sense tullys rebelled yet mace tyrell did not.

of course i know why, storywise. the baratheons, starks and arryns couldnt have defeated rhaegar by themselves. but the knights of the trident rode with them. 

 

Lysa Arryn was soiled.  She slept with a Baelish, got pregnant, had an abortion.  Hoster needed to marry her off.  Jon Arryn was desperate for an ally in the war and he agreed to marry Lysa in exchange for Hoster Tully's support.  In other words, Hoster's help was bought. 

[Anck Su Namun]

1 minute ago, UFT said:

 they could have said "piss off, you're dead when barristan, randyll and rhaegar get here". and like i said, they owe everything to targaryens. they owe nothing to an upjumped little uprising that might just get slaughtered. even the freys knew this and hedged their bets until it looked like the rebels will win. 

I wouldn't mind seeing the TTully family lose everything.  Their lives included.  One more to go. 

[Ralphis Baratheon]

20 minutes ago, Ye Shall Be As Gods said:

Jon Arryn was desperate for an ally in the war and he agreed to marry Lysa in exchange for Hoster Tully's support.  

Jon Arryn was also in need of an heir. Aerys killed his first one then his next died in the war. Jon was the last of his line.

30 minutes ago, UFT said:

upjumped little uprising that might just get slaughtered (and would have been if mace was halfway competant).

And how was the Royalist losing Mace Tyrell's fault? He did everything he was asked. His banner man gave Robert his only defeat. Then he was winning a siege at Storm's End.  More of the blame would be put on Jon Con rather then Mace Tyrell. Which is probably why Aerys exiled Jon Con after the Battle of the Bells. I'v never heard anyone blame Mace Tyrell for the Targaryens losing Robert's Rebellion, not even Olenna Tyrell.

[Brannis the Mannis]

Could you stop making topics such as "why did so and so DARE to oppose the Targaryens?! They were the ubermensch of all of Planetos and deserved absolute blind loyalty no matter how many people they fucked over!"

[Angel Eyes]

2 hours ago, Ye Shall Be As Gods said:

Lysa Arryn was soiled.  She slept with a Baelish, got pregnant, had an abortion.  Hoster needed to marry her off.  Jon Arryn was desperate for an ally in the war and he agreed to marry Lysa in exchange for Hoster Tully's support.  In other words, Hoster's help was bought. 

And Hoster compromised House Arryn by forcing her to abort and leaving Jon with a young wife who was unable to produce viable offspring.

[Leo of House Cartel]

Maybe Hoster just took that Family and Duty coming before Honour thing a bit too seriously?

 

[Adam Yozza]

7 hours ago, UFT said:

"hey i owe everything to you. and the prince by all acounts is a wonderful guy. but lets immediately betray him for someone who probably has no chance anyway".

Yeah because the Prince who kidnaps a daughter of the one of the Great Houses would still be considered 'a wonderful guy'.

Don't forget that even the Martell's; who were married into the family at this point; didn't actually want to send men to fight for Aerys or Rhaegar. Aerys threatened Elia, Aegon and Rhaenys to get any Dornish armies in the field at all. He was the Mad King and Rhaegar was the guy who'd just kidnapped Robert Baratheon's betrothed without consequence. Aerys had just unjustly executed several nobles and their father and violated the tradition of trial by combat.He burned a Lord Paramount to death without trial. He had a Lord Paramounts heir strangled to death. Honestly its amazing they managed to get the amount of support they did. But with that as the alternative? It's really no surprise Hoster jumped at an alliance that got him two marriages.

[ShadowCat Rivers]

10 hours ago, UFT said:

the tullys only exist as a major house because of targaryens, so why betray rhaegar and rhaella? tyrells didn't and they also owe everything to house targaryen. 

Unlike Tyrells, Tullys did not owe everything to the Targaryens. Tullys held Riverrun for a thousand years before the conquest, unlike the Tyrells who were stewards at Highgarden. Tyrells contribution to Aegon's cause was surrendering the castle after the battle was lost. Tullys rose to rebellion against Harren the black (their current king at the time, and a tyrrant - do you perchance see a pattern here?) so the paramountship was a reward for a very active contribution; a flimsy reward ath that, given that Harrenhal with all its income was made a second pole of power in the Riverlands, thus practically undermining the Tullys as paramounts. So really, why don't you get your data right before deciding who owes what and to whom?

 

10 hours ago, UFT said:

being alive. they could have said "piss off, you're dead when barristan, randyll and rhaegar get here".

...

"hey i owe everything to you. and the prince by all acounts is a wonderful guy. but lets immediately betray him for someone who probably has no chance anyway".

LOL, Hoster, good for him, was better than you at betting on who would win. He was not the one who lost his life, as facts proved.

Not by all accounts, no. Rhaegar might have been a jolly good fellow but personally I would not support for a ruler someone who, at the most critical time for the realm, just disappears with his lady love leaving behind the both his wife and children and the realm at the hands of his unstable father. Not a reliable person at any level, like at all, if you ask me. It's very possible that Hoster might have felt the same.

Another thing: Targaryens had no dragons anymore. Don't forget that. Aerys's reign stability was owed to Tywin Lannister. This was the man that the lords respected and feared. With Tywin deciding to stay this war out, all chances were on.

[Tygett Lannister]

11 hours ago, UFT said:

being alive.

wow great offer

[Melisandre's Rubies]

11 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

And Hoster compromised House Arryn by forcing her to abort and leaving Jon with a young wife who was unable to produce viable offspring.

Jon Arryn himself was unable to produce viable offspring. His first wife died in childbirth and the child was stillborn. His second marriage produced no children, as well. His heir prior to the Rebellion was his nephew, Elbert. This match was beneficial to both parties because Hoser needed a match that wouldn't object to Lysa's past, and in truth, her path was part of the lure for Jon because he needed a wife that had the ability to get pregnant. There's a chance that the abortion caused her trouble in carrying another child to term, but there's also an incredibly higher chance that Jon was the cause of fertility issues. Lysa got pregnant right away with Baelish's child while Jon had been married to two different women and since only one stillbirth is listed that may have been the only successful conception. This history is part of what drives the theory that Robert Arryn is actually Littlefinger's, conceived after he was made Master of Coin and moved to King's Landing. All the blame, in that "time" and culture, was placed on the woman while the man's fertility and genetics play an equal role. 

 

[Ser Leftwich]

Remember that Aerys also had Jeffory Mallister executed along with the Starks, Kyle Royce, and Elbert Arryn (and possibly some of their fathers). Summarily executions of prominent family members of major lords is not a great way to inspire loyalty.

This rebellion also grew from concern about Aerys's tyranny. Hoster and Jon Arryn had plenty of grievances along with some need for heirs and some need to marry off daughters.

 

ETA: The Tyrell's didn't lose anyone to Aerys. If he had executed some important Hightower knight and Mace's oldest son, Mace might have reacted different. 

ETFA: We don't know what demands that Aerys had made of Hoster up to that point. Also, Hoster made an agreement with Jon and Ned, to attack Stoney Sept, it was only after the battle that he would have interacted with Robert as per an alliance.

[Darion Storm]

This all assumes that everyone was fine with Aerys until this happened. His nature was common knowledge and it seems that plenty of people were unhappy with the situation.

[Aline de Gavrillac]

22 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

They received two marriages to Lord's of Kingdoms. Walder Frey did the same thing with Robb Stark. 

That's right.  The Tullys were bought. 

 

22 hours ago, Ye Shall Be As Gods said:

Lysa Arryn was soiled.  She slept with a Baelish, got pregnant, had an abortion.  Hoster needed to marry her off.  Jon Arryn was desperate for an ally in the war and he agreed to marry Lysa in exchange for Hoster Tully's support.  In other words, Hoster's help was bought. 

Like I said, the Tullys were bought and paid for. 

21 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

Jon Arryn was also in need of an heir. Aerys killed his first one then his next died in the war. Jon was the last of his line.

 

Arryn's heir must have been as big of a fool as Brandon Stark.  That was blatantly stupid of Brandon to threaten the royal family.  He deserved his execution.  By the way, monarchs do not murder, they execute.  There is a subtle but distinct difference.  A monarch has the authority to pass sentence. 

[Ralphis Baratheon]

3 hours ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

Arryn's heir must have been as big of a fool as Brandon Stark. 

We don't know if Elbert Arryn threatened anyone, for all we know he went to King's Landing with Brandon in hopes of talking him down and had no idea Brandon was going to make any threats. 

3 hours ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

That was blatantly stupid of Brandon to threaten the royal family.

 It was also stupid of Aerys to command Jon Arryn to kill his foster sons after he had Jon Arryn's nephew and heir killed, most likely without a trail. It would have made more sense for him to keep Elbert alive as a hostage against Jon Arryn and the Vale. 

3 hours ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

  By the way, monarchs do not murder, they execute.  There is a subtle but distinct difference.  A monarch has the authority to pass sentence. 

 Can you show me where I used the word "murder" anywhere in my post? 

[The Mountain That Flies]

I’m going to make you two offers.

First offer: Not only will you’re eldest child still marry into the powerful family directly to your North (after I killed your first chance at this), but your second child will now get to marry into the powerful family directly to your East. Your lands will unfortunately become a major battleground, but you’ll have allies all over the map when we’re finished.

Second offer: Your lands still become a major battleground, but now we’re not making any promises about your childrens’ futures or who will even be in charge of the lands surrounding you. Oh, and given my mercurial nature I may decide you’re an enemy in a year’s time and have you killed.

NOW CHOOSE

Note: I am obviously aware of the fact the alliance House Tulley got from Robert’s Rebellion didn’t ultimately help them in the next major war to come around, but looking at it solely through the lens Hoster had at the time, his decision makes sense.

[Adam Yozza]

18 hours ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

That's right.  The Tullys were bought. 

 

Like I said, the Tullys were bought and paid for. 

Arryn's heir must have been as big of a fool as Brandon Stark.  That was blatantly stupid of Brandon to threaten the royal family.  He deserved his execution.  By the way, monarchs do not murder, they execute.  There is a subtle but distinct difference.  A monarch has the authority to pass sentence. 

So in your mind stupidy means you should be killed? Brandon was reckless and foolish but he didn't deserve death. Monarch's can execute sure. But the person they're executing needs to be given a trial/confess for it to be an execution; that's why Tywin didn't just execute Tyrion; that's why Joffrey needed Ned to confess first. Aerys gave neither Brandon, Elbert, Kyle or Jeffory nor their fathers a trial. He just killed them. With the exception of Brandon, he killed them just for the crime of being there. Their fathers were killed because they were related to someone who was just there.

Aerys deserved to be overthrown. Jon, Ned and Robert were right to rebel and Hoster; whatever his reasons; made the right choice.