House Frey should be respected

[Ralphis Baratheon]

1 hour ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Don't know Ramsey's interests are on first right-

No, we just know he likes to take smallfolk women strip them naked, hunt them down with hounds, then rape them and skin them alive.  Then he feeds their bodies to the dogs. I'm sure many smallfolk are really looking forward to him being their lord now that Ramsey doesn't have to hide it with his father being their new Warden.

1 hour ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

but for Roose he's managed to keep such tales confined to the land he'd governed as lord of the dreadfort.

Roose had the tongue cut out of the miller's brother, the miller who had married Ramsey's mother and was hanged. So that way the miller's brother could not go to Winterfell and tell Rickard Stark all Roose had done. That's how he keeps such tales from being told and yet another way he abuses smallfolk under his rule.

1 hour ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Now as Warden if he still par takes in it(doubtful for he'd be far heavier scrutiny for being the liege lord of the entire north), he wouldn't do it in such a massive scale to draw attention

So now that he has even more power in the North then he did before and no Stark Warden to answer too you think he'll stop committing heinous acts?  What evidence do you have for this? He has always believed in the lord's right of First night and has never mentioned that he will stop now that he's Warden of the North. 

2 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

I don't think the smallfolk at Bear island or Duscendale or white harbor think their Bolton warden is going to traverse hundreds of miles just partake in first night.

What about those smallfolk that are not lucky enough to live on Bear Island or in White Harbor? They all should just cross their fingers and hope Ramsey doesn't hunt their daughters down? Or that Roose doesn't come upon their weddings and hang the groom and rape the bride? At least he won't have to cut their tongues out now that he's controlling the North. On second thought maybe he still will, just in the rare case that one may go to KL and tell King Tommen.

Duskendale is in the Crownlands by the way, I have no idea what it has to do with the plight of the Northern smallfolk under Bolton rule. A plight that has gotten considerably worse now that Roose Bolton is ruling the North instead of a Stark.

[LordMiddleFinger]

Walder Frey had an opportunity to build a similar reputation for his House like Tywin did for his own. His mistake was that he did something so dishonorable during the RW that he basically destroyed any chance of Freys regaining their honor in the future. Robb Stark fucked him, he swore that he would marry his daughter and then he went and married Jeyne Westerling. The facts are the facts and you can't argue with facts:

- Robb did break his promise to Lord Walder.
- Robb did insult Walder Frey and his entire family. 
- Walder Frey had every right to be furious about what happened.
- Had he just forgiven Robb he would've been viewed as a fool and a weak Lord. 

 He should've just switched sides and join the Lannisters or just sit in his castle, make sure Robb and his army can't march back North, and wait for Tywin to oblitirate Robb and his army on the battlefield. And let's face it, without The Freys and the Karstarks, Robb had NO chance of winning against The Lannister AND the Tyrells. His days were numbered anyway, Walder was just too impatient and too angry to just let Tywin deal with the Young Wolf. I realize that Tywin offered him a deal but he could've refused to go through with the RW and just tell Tywin that he will not do something that would destroy the reputation of his House forever and turn the entire North and the Riverlands against him, but that he will do nothing to help the rebels and that he'll make sure that they can't run back North to safety should Tywin and his forces march on them and force them to retreat. 

 He could've gotten his revenge, preserve what little honor his family had left, and send a message to other Houses that The Freys don't take shit from anyone. But he fucked up, so now his days are numbered and his House will likely be completely destroyed before it's all said and done. 

[Kandrax]

8 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Well said house violated guest right, a key custom in Andal and First men culture, and killed 3000-4000 men in the process, including murder the most significant protagonist family member.

Jaime also  violated guest right  and Tyrion is kinslayer, yet none want them dead.

[Varysblackfyre321]

8 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

No, we just know he likes to take smallfolk women strip them naked, hunt them down with hounds, then rape them and skin them alive.  Then he feeds their bodies to the dogs. I'm sure many smallfolk are really looking forward to him being their lord now that Ramsey doesn't have to hide it with his father being their new Warden.

Ramsey certianly has to hide it and ordered to hide it by Roose..it's a PR nightmare.

 

8 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

Roose had the tongue cut out of the miller's brother, the miller who had married Ramsey's mother and was hanged. So that way the miller's brother could not go to Winterfell and tell Rickard Stark all Roose had done. That's how he keeps such tales from being told and yet another way he abuses smallfolk under his rule.

Yes he used fear and intimidation to keep his dirty hobbies a secret. Stay clear from and land he has taken up residency at least 10 mil.

 

8 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

So now that he has even more power in the North then he did before and no Stark Warden to answer too you think he'll stop committing heinous acts?  What evidence do you have for this? He has always believed in the lord's right of First night and has never mentioned that he will stop now that he's Warden of the North

No I don't think he'll stop being cruel. He's still a very much a sadist. But, he doesn't want that notion to spread, doubtless if he did continue to do such a thing he'd keep it extremely limited as to avoid scandal

 

8 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

10 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

 

What about those smallfolk that are not lucky enough to live on Bear Island or in White Harbor? They all should just cross their fingers and hope Ramsey doesn't hunt their daughters down? Or that Roose doesn't come upon their weddings and hang the groom and rape the bride? At least he won't have to cut their tongues out now that he's controlling the North. On second thought maybe he still will, just in the rare case that one may go to KL and tell King Tommen.

 Again, the odds of any single one them actually meeting the warden in general for the vast majority of them the prospect won't keep them from going on from their day to day lives. Yes, the smallfolk who reside in winterfell or a just couple miles may live in terror.

 

8 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

e way, I have no idea what it has to do with the plight of the Northern smallfolk under Bolton rule. A plight that has gotten considerably worse now that Roose Bolton is ruling the North instead of a Stark.

Correct don't know why I put Duscendale as an example my mistake. And, eh? Like again if you live in or just a couple miles from the Dreadfort or Winterfell, yeah. If not I really don't think there's been much change in the day to day routine of the smallfolk because now Roose Bolton is warden instead of a Stark. 

[Ponzi Scheme]

Screw respect, they got River's Run out of the deal.  Respect doesn't do anything practical and Walder Frey takes a practical approach.  They lost little and gained a lot.  That is worth more than social sentiment towards the family.  In one bold move the Freys ensured no punitive damages would be judged against them for joining the rebellion, gained River's Run, paid back Robb for his betrayal, took Hoster Tully's lands, built strong ties with the new lord paramount of the north, rid themselves of big Walda.  That's a big win in any book.

[Universal Sword Donor]

6 hours ago, Kandrax said:

Jaime also  violated guest right  and Tyrion is kinslayer, yet none want them dead.

When did Jaime violate guest right?

No one wants Tyrion dead? Are you serious? Are we talking book characters or fans? I've seen plenty of the latter and there are plenty of the former, in text.

[Universal Sword Donor]

13 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

And has shown to be a merciless up to RW to those who chose rebel against his family and the Freys having been one of the houses most responsible for his Son's capture would certianly responsible to expect severe reprisal for its part in the rebellion-perhaps not as a full on cleasening but  ust taking the Twins as punishment.

They can't play neutral anymore.

They say they're ready to atone for their treason-they must show it.

Who has he been merciless to? He ransomed 4 Freys after the Green Fork -- Ser Jared Frey, Ser Hosteen Frey, Ser Danwell Frey, and Ronel Rivers. That's sure merciless to the house he's communicating with to bring about Robb's downfall. 

He also trades Donnel Locke. Then we get to the thousands of men-at-arms, knights, and Lords who bend the knee and are not massacred by Joffrey. He agrees to have Marg married to Joffrey. Then even after the RW he is conciliatory and send Wylis Manderly back to his father amongst other captives like Galbart Glover.

Frankly the Freys he trades after Jaime is captured -- and he knows Jaime is captured at this point -- are basically all anyone needs to point out to show your point on Tywin's reputation has pretty much no merit or standing in this discussion. How can the Freys be afraid of Tywin when he's already shown them mercy and is willing to plot with them? They aren't. They just merely want protection from the crown for the atrocity:

"The blood is on Walder Frey's hands, not mine."

"Walder Frey is a peevish old man who lives to fondle his young wife and brood over all the slights he's suffered. I have no doubt he hatched this ugly chicken, but he would never have dared such a thing without a promise of protection."

 

Tywin was more than happy to oblige him, much like he was for the ransom for Walder's sons.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

2 hours ago, Ponzi Scheme said:

Screw respect, they got River's Run out of the deal.  Respect doesn't do anything practical and Walder Frey takes a practical approach.  They lost little and gained a lot.  That is worth more than social sentiment towards the family.  In one bold move the Freys ensured no punitive damages would be judged against them for joining the rebellion, gained River's Run, paid back Robb for his betrayal, took Hoster Tully's lands, built strong ties with the new lord paramount of the north, rid themselves of big Walda.  That's a big win in any book.

Really? I can't wait to see Ser Daven's wedding. It should be a very interesting social event. After, we shall revisit the full extent of the Frey big win.

Meanwhile, let's just nibble on Lord Wyman's pies as a popcorn substitute.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

1 hour ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

When did Jaime violate guest right?

Er... Remember Bran?

[Universal Sword Donor]

3 minutes ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

Er... Remember Bran?

Yes I was thinking post AGoT for some reason. Sometimes I forget that Jaime had both hands at one point.

[Nowy Tends]

3 hours ago, Ponzi Scheme said:

Screw respect, they got River's Run out of the deal.  Respect doesn't do anything practical and Walder Frey takes a practical approach.  They lost little and gained a lot.  That is worth more than social sentiment towards the family.  In one bold move the Freys ensured no punitive damages would be judged against them for joining the rebellion, gained River's Run, paid back Robb for his betrayal, took Hoster Tully's lands, built strong ties with the new lord paramount of the north, rid themselves of big Walda.  That's a big win in any book.

We must have read a different book; in mine the Freys are doomed. RW 2.0 in Riverrun, ice-cold bathing near Winterfell, talk about a win…

[Kandrax]

5 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

When did Jaime violate guest right?

No one wants Tyrion dead? Are you serious? Are we talking book characters or fans? I've seen plenty of the latter and there are plenty of the former, in text.

By pushing Bran, and i'm talking about readers

[Moiraine Sedai]

On 1/13/2018 at 8:38 PM, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

To be fair he wasn't a King when he disrespected the Frey's. But yes the Frey's had every reason to be angry. I wasn't arguing they didn't. 

At least you recognize they had a right to be angry with Robb.  That is more than some Stark fans is willing to admit.

 

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

45 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

At least you recognize they had a right to be angry with Robb.  That is more than some Stark fans is willing to admit.

At least those made out of straw.

[Kandrax]

5 hours ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

At least you recognize they had a right to be angry with Robb.  That is more than some Stark fans is willing to admit.

 

Especially Ryman and Walton given that their father died for Robb.

[Wall Flower]

1 hour ago, Kandrax said:

Especially Ryman and Walton given that their father died for Robb.

Personally, I'm very suspicious about the circumstances of Stevron's death. He appeared to be recovering from his wounds before dying unexpectedly in his tent.  I wonder how grief-stricken Ryman and his son Black Walder really were, given that both received a nice bump up in the succession for the Twins.

[Bernie Mac]

4 minutes ago, Wall Flower said:

Personally, I'm very suspicious about the circumstances of Stevron's death.

But no one else is. Steron's in enemy territory with Robb and no treats his death as suspicious. What it sounds like is one of the most common death for soliders before the invention of antibiotics. 

4 minutes ago, Wall Flower said:

 

He appeared to be recovering from his wounds before dying unexpectedly in his tent. 

Where did you get him recovering from?

"Sadly, no victory is without cost." Maester Luwin turned to the Walders. "My lords, your uncle Ser Stevron Frey was among those who lost their lives at Oxcross. He took a wound in the battle, Robb writes. It was not thought to be serious, but three days later he died in his tent, asleep."

I'm not saying it was definitely infection, but that is pretty much the description of someone dying of an infection. The wound itself not being fatal, but the infection making the patient worse, especially a patient who was older than Hoster Tully. 

4 minutes ago, Wall Flower said:

 

 I wonder how grief-stricken Ryman and his son Black Walder really were, given that both received a nice bump up in the succession for the Twins.

Stevron's ancient by Westeros standards. He likely had only another 10 years himself, I doubt they'd be worried about him. 

Plus it should be remembered that Edwyn's theories about Black Walder being connected to the deaths of his father and brother is paranoia as we know it is Lady Stoneheart and the BWB behind that. 

[Kandrax]

Lot of readers suspects that Stevron was killed by Black, but what about Ryman?

7 hours ago, Wall Flower said:

Personally, I'm very suspicious about the circumstances of Stevron's death. He appeared to be recovering from his wounds before dying unexpectedly in his tent.  I wonder how grief-stricken Ryman and his son Black Walder really were, given that both received a nice bump up in the succession for the Twins.

Then at least Walton.

[Lord of Oldstones]

Freys are really interesting bunch tbh I’ll like to know their history and their rise to prominence (off course ik it’s from bridge but I wanna know more than that )from nothing to being rich and powerful House.I’d like to know their marriages before Walder Frey too (like which houses accepted to marry with them.

[Bullrout]

On 12/22/2017 at 1:24 PM, Adam Yozza said:

Yeah sure the Frey's from 500 years ago, mad respects to them. Well done.

The Frey's at the end of the third century though? While their are some good apples among the bunch the house as a whole lost their right to respect when they chose the most scummy and dishonourable course of action open to them. Down with House Frey.

Most if not all families will do what the Freys did to protect themselves from the consequences of supporting the losing side of a rebellion.  Most if not all Westerosi families will break guest rights rather than continue to support a dishonorable fellow like Robb.  I'm not saying trickery isn't bad but they see what Robb did as trickery.  How you feel about the situation depends on whose shoes you're wearing.  I like Lord Walder.  He's one of the more entertainingly funny people and I don't want him to die.  I find it hard to have sympathy for Robb and his bannermen.  I know they were tricked but trickery is the most efficient way to win against a bigger opponent.  The Freys could never hope to fight Robb and his armies directly.  This was the only way open to the Freys to extricate themselves from a losing alliance to a man who broke his oaths to them.