Why is Jon so Attractive...

[Corvo the Crow]

... whereas Stannis is not? 

Why women are attracted to Jon has been discussed many times before but I have never seen a comparison between Jon and Stannis, two persons more alike to one another in their character than any other two people in the series.

 

It is hard to miss but below a quote anyway

Quote

Melisandre took that as a sign and dismissed her own guard as well. They crossed the yard together, just the two of them. The snow fell all around them. She walked as close to Jon Snow as she dared, close enough to feel the mistrust pouring off him like a black fog. He does not love me, will never love me, but he will make use of me. Well and good. Melisandre had danced the same dance with Stannis Baratheon, back in the beginning. In truth, the young lord commander and her king had more in common than either one would ever be willing to admit. Stannis had been a younger son living in the shadow of his elder brother, just as Jon Snow, bastard-born, had always been eclipsed by his trueborn sibling, the fallen hero men had called the Young Wolf. Both men were unbelievers by nature, mistrustful, suspicious. The only gods they truly worshiped were honor and duty.

But somehow Jon gets the attention of the ladies and isn't (too much) uncomfortable with it whereas Stannis neither gets attention nor is he comfortable, even around his own wife. Why?

Also I'm not asking about physical attraction as Stannis was probably a very handsome man in his youth, being a Baratheon brother.

 

Also sorry for the title being somewhat clickbaity, but I wanted to keep it short and couldn't come up with anything better.

[Julia H.]

26 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

... whereas Stannis is not?

 

Why women are attracted to Jon has been discussed many times before but I have never seen a comparison between Jon and Stannis, two persons more alike to one another in their character than any other two people in the series.

 

It is hard to miss but below a quote anyway

But somehow Jon gets the attention of the ladies and isn't (too much) uncomfortable with it whereas Stannis neither gets attention nor is he comfortable, even around his own wife. Why?

I can't really agree with the bolded, not even if Melisandre says so... Granted, there are some similarities, but there are also important differences. A comparative analysis of the two characters could be interesting. 

[Lady Dacey]

Stannis completely despises women, while Jon has a deep respect for them, as much as possible in such a society. 

We see this time and time again. Since his first interactions with Arya, whom he gifts with a sword, who tells him "the woman is important too", up to his respect for the spearwives and his choice to admit untrained girls of twelve in the NW. 

Stannis on the other hand not only feels uncomfortable around women, he truly doesn't think them worthy. He refuses spearwives for his army, he doesn't acknowledge Asha as someone he should listen to, he shows no simpathy for his own daughter, he speaks of Alysanne Mormont as if she were a freak... 

It's hard to fall for a guy who looks down on you. 

Also, I must agree that while there are some similarities, they are not "more alike to one another than anyone in the books"

[Alexis-something-Rose]

Jon and Stannis are very different. Maester Colemon goes in length about Stannis's personality in Clash's prologue. Stannis doesn't like women at all. He has a lot of contempt for Asha because she is no proper lady, was uncomfortable about Sybelle Glover even though she is a proper lady. He seems to praise Aly Mormont for her engagement at Deepwood Motte, but scorn her at the same time because she's a woman.

Jon is the opposite of that. 

[Ghost+Nymeria4Eva]

Just now, Corvo the Crow said:

Why women are attracted to Jon has been discussed many times before but I have never seen a comparison between Jon and Stannis, two persons more alike to one another in their character than any other two people in the series.

Are you talking about women in the book or women irl? In any case, as others have pointed out, Stannis is a misogynist and maybe even a gynephobe. He's a typical patriarchal head in the same vein as Tywin and the elder Tarly. He's also a sort of a zealot who thinks too much of himself. While Stannis is considered "honorable" in terms of his military and lordly service, more so in comparison to his  two brothers, his faults outnumber his good points. Additionally, Stannis is kind of stupid. May I point out the scene in ACoK when he pulls out "lightbringer":

Quote

Melisandre lifted her hands above her head. “Behold! A sign was promised, and now a sign is seen! Behold Lightbringer! Azor Ahai has come again! All hail the Warrior of Light! All hail the Son of Fire!”
A ragged wave of shouts gave answer, just as Stannis’s glove began to smolder. Cursing, the king thrust the point of the sword into the damp earth and beat out the flames against his leg.
“Lord, cast your light upon us!” Melisandre called out.

The scene is hilarious and is really all you need to know about Stannis. 

Jon Snow, on the other hand, is nothing like Stannis. He's smart enough to distinguish magic tricks from the real thing. Also, while he is proud, he is not overly vain and self obsessed. But what really distinguishes Jon from men like Stannis is that he can rise above the groupthink. Even if he is a bastard, he is still a lordling, but that doesn't stop him from being kind to Sam and other "low born" crows. He respects women even if he lives in a highly misogynistic society. He doesn't do things he believes are wrong, even if his society accepts them (he refuses to go to mole town for "digging" for example). But I don't know why women find Jon oh-so attractive as you say. It could be because he's younger than Stannis. I find Jon to be a pleasant character, but not a particularly attractive one. 

I would not take Melisandre's word for how alike Jon and Stannis are. We know just how wrong she can be. 

[Aline de Gavrillac]

Samwell actually has a higher social status than Jon.  And on that note, Jon was not immediately respectful to the common born boys.  He had contempt for them.  It was not until some wise advice from smarter men that Jon accepted the other recruits. 

 

3 hours ago, Ghost+Nymeria4Eva said:

 

 

[Adam Yozza]

7 minutes ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

Samwell actually has a higher social status than Jon.  And on that note, Jon was not immediately respectful to the common born boys.  He had contempt for them.  It was not until some wise advice from smarter men that Jon accepted the other recruits. 

 

 

Yet that wasn't for their birth. The contempt came for the crimes they came to the Wall the exceptionally wide gap in skill between him and them.

[The Fattest Leech]

9 minutes ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

Samwell actually has a higher social status than Jon.  And on that note, Jon was not immediately respectful to the common born boys.  He had contempt for them.  It was not until some wise advice from smarter men that Jon accepted the other recruits. 

 

 

It's called character development. That is how good stories are written and what makes characters interesting. The idea that someone starts out one way and never changes through their arc and experiences is boring. GRRM doesn't write boring.

And Jon hasn't belittled anyone based on their "birth ranking". Quite the opposite because later after he is elected LC, he appoints the right man to different posts, as opposed to appointing a "birth rank" that may not have the required skills.

[Dorian Martell's son]

5 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Why is Jon so Attractive...

So, you prefer 15 year old boys to grown men.......

Most everyone in the books do too 

 

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

5 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

... whereas Stannis is not?

 

Why women are attracted to Jon has been discussed many times before but I have never seen a comparison between Jon and Stannis, two persons more alike to one another in their character than any other two people in the series.

 

It is hard to miss but below a quote anyway

But somehow Jon gets the attention of the ladies and isn't (too much) uncomfortable with it whereas Stannis neither gets attention nor is he comfortable, even around his own wife. Why?

Jon is better looking than Stan , and his shyness adds to it .

[Darth Sidious]

Where are you getting this idea?  Ygritte found him attractive but look at the men she was used to.  She found someone who was not as savage and brutish as free folk men.  It's easy to see why she would like him.  Mel is not attracted to Jon.  She's attracted to power.  Stannis had it and now he's losing so Mel is looking for the next power broker.  It's not that Jon is attractive.  He's not.  It's what Mel thinks he can do for her.  Make a shadow baby maybe.

[Daenerys Targaryen's slave]

Don't forget Val and Alys and Shireen. They are not attracted to his looks either. They only are attracted to him for his power, too. And because they have never seen good looking men before.

[Traverys]

I think other people touched on this, but the idea of attractiveness varies over time. Even from 1920's to the current decade in America, the "sex symbol" male has gone through very noticeable shifts.

In medieval times, as evidence by writings about Henry VIII, muscular calves were seen as a highly attractive and virile feature for men to have. Foreign dignitaries visiting his court would spend a paragraph or more writing home about the king's marvelous calves.

I'm not saying this is what Westerosi women find attractive in men, but I am saying it's always subjective. Note that Jon finds himself very attracted to Ygritte (deep feelings are implied), yet also acknowledges she's really not all that pretty. Also, the Free Folk are bound to evaluate a man's attractiveness on different things than a Westerosi lady or smallfolk woman. Especially considering Wildling women aren't compelled to submit to a man if she doesn't want to.

Stannis' reputation is known throughout the kingdom, depicting him as a rigid, callous, humorless man that chops the fingers off his trusted advisor even after Davos saves his life. We as the readers understand Stannis' devotion to justice (all crimes are punished, all goods rewarded; they do not cancel each other out), but everyone else just hears the stories. A woman who's heard of Stannis would be extremely wary of even looking at Stannis, much less trying to slip into his bed.

[Corvo the Crow]

I don't have time to reply to posts at the moment but just a small correction; when I meant attractive, I wasn't meaning youth and physical looks. If anything, in his youth Stannis must have been far more handsome than Jon is, just look at how a young Robert is described or how Renly is seen throguh Sansa's eyes.

[Corvo the Crow]

1 hour ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

So, you prefer 15 year old boys to grown men.......

Most everyone in the books do too 

 

I don't even want to know what was written in this post was before it was edited

[zandru]

Actually, I don't see where the books indicate that Jon was at all attractive to women. Are you, perchance, looking at photos of Kit Harington?

[Jon Fossoway]

Jon has more character development than Stannis. Stannis is basically the same in all situations. I don't agree that Stan will learn how to deal with people, it's just embreded on who he are. He'll break down before bending or surrendering any of his attributes.

[zandru]

13 minutes ago, King Merrett I Frey said:

Jon has more character development than Stannis. Stannis is basically the same in all situations.

Good observation! Jon is young, achieving manhood and responsibility, so one would hope for a lot of change. Stannis has been there (adulthood; his lordship; military leader, etc) for a long time, and as you note, has become a pretty inflexible guy. He must think it's working for him.

[RhaegoTheUnborn]

1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

I don't have time to reply to posts at the moment but just a small correction; when I meant attractive, I wasn't meaning youth and physical looks. If anything, in his youth Stannis must have been far more handsome than Jon is, just look at how a young Robert is described or how Renly is seen throguh Sansa's eyes.

What are you basing this on? In comparison to Renly & Robert in the book, Stannis is mostly implied to be the uglier of the three, if "uglier" is the correct word. Part of this is in relation to his personality though. Stannis is never looked at in the same light as Robert or Renly, not even in their youth. Both Renly and Robert are described as tall and handsome (although Renly was much shorter than Robert), whereas, I don't believe this description is ever applied to Stannis. Tall, broad-shouldered and sinewy, yes, handsome, I don't believe so, I could be wrong though. And as said, Stannis & Jon are not more alike than anyone else in the book.

[Clegane'sPup]

8 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

... whereas Stannis is not?

 

Why women are attracted to Jon has been discussed many times before but I have never seen a comparison between Jon and Stannis, two persons more alike to one another in their character than any other two people in the series.

Thread title: Why is Jon so Attractive --- followed up with --- ... whereas Stannis is not?

I don’t think I have read a thread comparing the two in this manner.

I remember reading that a young woman had the hots for Jon. He was a virgin and she was not and that this inexperienced boy surprised her with the lords kiss.

Stannis on the other hand had an arranged marriage with a woman he did not have the hots for and for all intent and purposes he honored his marriage until he met Mel.

It is insinuated that the red woman shared Stannis’ bed, but then again Missy Mel has a potion or powder for lust. Do ya think she tricked him?

1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

I don't have time to reply to posts at the moment but just a small correction; when I meant attractive, I wasn't meaning youth and physical looks. If anything, in his youth Stannis must have been far more handsome than Jon is, just look at how a young Robert is described or how Renly is seen throguh Sansa's eyes.

What is your actual question?